Minisiter of Transport M Garneau braggs about Swoop

[goingnowherefast]

Don’t engage Weedpro, waste of your time. Absolute embarrassment!

I was going to argue with his fatigue post, but then realized he is the most successful troll in Avcanada history.

[Noo]

Answer Bede's question!

[Bede]

Answer Bede's question!

Let's try again Weedpro. What is your opinion on the company's original contract offer?

[Schooner69A]

"You land at your oversees destination at 0730 (local time at your home base). You have been on duty 13 hours and 30 minutes. You have been awake 22 hours and 30 minutes."



Is this single pilot or two pilot?


How often does this happen?

[FL007]

"You land at your oversees destination at 0730 (local time at your home base). You have been on duty 13 hours and 30 minutes. You have been awake 22 hours and 30 minutes."



Is this single pilot or two pilot?


How often does this happen?

Happens a lot in regional flying. Later reserve coverage, you get up at 8am like a normal human, get called out at 5pm for a 10hr day, you've been up for 19+ hours at that point.

Later reserve coverage can vary from before noon to 8pm and you're expected to be prepared for a 14hr day at any time you're called.

Now if you're on reserve from 11am but don't get called until 8pm how are you expected to prepare to fly until 10am the next morning...?

[snowcone]

I think Team Red should see this as a warning shot in the event of hopes of a future bailout.

I don't work for Air Canada, but when was the last time they were bailed out...when they were government run?

From what I understand, the balance sheet of AC is one of the strongest in Canada.

I don't think they have any intention of going under anytime soon.

[AuxBatOn]

You are rostered to be on reserve, from 2 PM to 2 AM. You woke up at 9 AM that day, after 9 hours of excellent sleep.

And at no point you would consider modifying your sleep schedule to wake up closer to noon to account for the fact that you may be recalled? Or consider napping a couple of times during the day to stay well rested?

I have done weeklong shifts where I alternated between sleeping at work on a really short recall time for 24 hrs and being at home on a slightly longer recall time for the following 24 hours. Guess what: I changed my sleep schedule (yes, even with kids) to account for the fact that I may be flying at any point those weeks.

[digits_]

Or consider napping a couple of times during the day to stay well rested?

Peope aren't cellphones you can leave in a charger all day and expect them to be fully charged at any time.

If napping works for you: great. For some people, it just doesn't.

[AuxBatOn]

Or consider napping a couple of times during the day to stay well rested?

Peope aren't cellphones you can leave in a charger all day and expect them to be fully charged at any time.

If napping works for you: great. For some people, it just doesn't.

There are strategies that you can use. While they may not all be effective for you, one or two surely are. If you are trying to treat your day on reserve as a day off, perhaps you just have to suck it up or reconsider your career choices. In that window, you are accountable to your employer to be fit for duties. You better make sure you are...

[digits_]

Or consider napping a couple of times during the day to stay well rested?

Peope aren't cellphones you can leave in a charger all day and expect them to be fully charged at any time.

If napping works for you: great. For some people, it just doesn't.

There are strategies that you can use. While they may not all be effective for you, one or two surely are. If you are trying to treat your day on reserve as a day off, perhaps you just have to suck it up or reconsider your career choices. In that window, you are accountable to your employer to be fit for duties. You better make sure you are...

The problem is not to be fit for duty during that window, the problem is to be fit for duty during that window + 14 hours. Working for 14 hours straight is already quite tiring, even if you wake up just before at 8 AM. Now you add an unkown start time and end time in the mix, and you will be (too?) tired. Medevac flashbacks come to mind. But even in Gilles example, where you could say "just sleep in". What if the reserve day is follwing a week of early morning shifts? Your body has the capability to absorb a change from 24 hour rythm to a 23 hour or 26 hour rythm. So switching from waking up at 4 AM to waking up at noon and still waiting till 6 pm to start working for 14 hours, is just crazy. Maybe a few people are capable of doing that while they are not sleep drunk, but I have a feeling a lot won't be.

If you are, go to any medevac operator and you'll make a lot of money. They'll love you!

[FL007]

Peope aren't cellphones you can leave in a charger all day and expect them to be fully charged at any time.

If napping works for you: great. For some people, it just doesn't.

There are strategies that you can use. While they may not all be effective for you, one or two surely are. If you are trying to treat your day on reserve as a day off, perhaps you just have to suck it up or reconsider your career choices. In that window, you are accountable to your employer to be fit for duties. You better make sure you are...

The problem is not to be fit for duty during that window, the problem is to be fit for duty during that window + 14 hours. Working for 14 hours straight is already quite tiring, even if you wake up just before at 8 AM. Now you add an unkown start time and end time in the mix, and you will be (too?) tired. Medevac flashbacks come to mind. But even in Gilles example, where you could say "just sleep in". What if the reserve day is follwing a week of early morning shifts? Your body has the capability to absorb a change from 24 hour rythm to a 23 hour or 26 hour rythm. So switching from waking up at 4 AM to waking up at noon and still waiting till 6 pm to start working for 14 hours, is just crazy. Maybe a few people are capable of doing that while they are not sleep drunk, but I have a feeling a lot won't be.

If you are, go to any medevac operator and you'll make a lot of money. They'll love you!

Exactly, and since there aren't any rules in terms of giving night/morning shifts I've definitely had a week of early mornings ending at 4-5pm and a flight the immediate next day ending at 3am.

The only way to make it work after a long day is to force myself to stay up until 3am that night after I had been working since 5am and hope I wake up late enough in the morning to be rested for my late flight.

It's inhumane, no shift workers are allowed to get switched like that, but we are, and I'm not even a medevac driver.

[groundpilot]

Or consider napping a couple of times during the day to stay well rested?

Peope aren't cellphones you can leave in a charger all day and expect them to be fully charged at any time.

If napping works for you: great. For some people, it just doesn't.

There are strategies that you can use. While they may not all be effective for you, one or two surely are. If you are trying to treat your day on reserve as a day off, perhaps you just have to suck it up or reconsider your career choices. In that window, you are accountable to your employer to be fit for duties. You better make sure you are...

Some people have families, lives, you know...

You may not just be able to just take a nap. I am pretty sure no junior pilot in the real world treats a reserve day as a day off. Probably the polar opposite, a day of wondering where they are going to end up and in what kind of weather...

[AuxBatOn]

Some people have families, lives, you know...

You may not just be able to just take a nap. I am pretty sure no junior pilot in the real world treats a reserve day as a day off. Probably the polar opposite, a day of wondering where they are going to end up and in what kind of weather...

If that's how you really feel, perhaps you should reconsider your career choice.

[flyzam]

Some people have families, lives, you know...

You may not just be able to just take a nap. I am pretty sure no junior pilot in the real world treats a reserve day as a day off. Probably the polar opposite, a day of wondering where they are going to end up and in what kind of weather...

If that's how you really feel, perhaps you should reconsider your career choice.

That classic diversionary "if you don't like it you can lump it' instead of the more educated "let's fix it"

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Maybe airlines should just stop flying at night

[ant_321]

Maybe airlines should just stop flying at night

That's something I can get behind. No flights between 2300 and 0900.

[Kejidog]

One thing I guarantee you is that you’ll never see any of those liberal dicks or any other politician for that matter, on a low cost airline. They suck up the good seats on the big boys at our kids and grand kids expense. What a country!

[AuxBatOn]

That classic diversionary "if you don't like it you can lump it' instead of the more educated "let's fix it"

All jobs require some form of loyalty towards the employer for the relationship to work. When you are “On Reserve”, you are responsible and in some cases, accountable to the company to be fit for duty. Yes, it may mean using your reserve day to be rested for your liability period and forego family activities. I generally consider that “work” where I can tend to my personnal activities rather than “personnal time” during which I may have to go to “work”.

I don’t think a 12-hour liability period is unreasonable, if you take that time to ensure you are well rested.

[digits_]

If you take that time to ensure you are well rested.

So what are the other techniques to accomplish this? You mentioned napping, which doesn't work for some people. What else is there?

Scenario: you wake up at 7 AM due to your biorythm, you slumber in bed and you finally get up at 9. You are on reserve 1400-2200. At 2100 you get a call and your day starts for a 12 hour trip. How would you deal with it? I'm honestly interested to learn what other techniques there are.

[PostmasterGeneral]

If you take that time to ensure you are well rested.

So what are the other techniques to accomplish this? You mentioned napping, which doesn't work for some people. What else is there?

Scenario: you wake up at 7 AM due to your biorythm, you slumber in bed and you finally get up at 9. You are on reserve 1400-2200. At 2100 you get a call and your day starts for a 12 hour trip. How would you deal with it? I'm honestly interested to learn what other techniques there are.

There aren’t. He’s just trying to ruffle feathers.

Take a nap in cruise I guess. I find even 20 minutes helps me immensely. Of course if your company has SOP provisions for that sort of thing.