Workaround.....

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CAL
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Workaround.....

Post by CAL »

Encore(poor), Swoop(equally shite), Link(?)
I am assuming you guys are getting the bigger picture here to where this is all going to end up ALPA or no ALPA right?

Dont feel bad Westjet is just following in big brothers footsteps
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by goingnowherefast »

Encore and Swoop are also ALPA. Link is on delay after delay after delay.
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MrTurbine
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by MrTurbine »

CAL wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:42 am
Encore(poor), Swoop(equally shite), Link(?)
I am assuming you guys are getting the bigger picture here to where this is all going to end up ALPA or no ALPA right?

Dont feel bad Westjet is just following in big brothers footsteps
Interesting point. ALPA or no ALPA, it’s going to shite. So now who’s to blame? The guys that started the whole thing and tried to divide the working groups in the first place? Guys that made videos screaming at us and demanding us to volunteer on days off? Guys that were okay with the meticulous plan of laying of 70% of the pilots overnight because they preferred to act like little kids that didn’t get what they wanted? Sure, Blame the pilots who are united.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by WeedPro2000 »

MrTurbine wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:21 pm
CAL wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:42 am
Encore(poor), Swoop(equally shite), Link(?)
I am assuming you guys are getting the bigger picture here to where this is all going to end up ALPA or no ALPA right?

Dont feel bad Westjet is just following in big brothers footsteps
Interesting point. ALPA or no ALPA, it’s going to shite. So now who’s to blame? The guys that started the whole thing and tried to divide the working groups in the first place? Guys that made videos screaming at us and demanding us to volunteer on days off? Guys that were okay with the meticulous plan of laying of 70% of the pilots overnight because they preferred to act like little kids that didn’t get what they wanted? Sure, Blame the pilots who are united.
I think if you voted yes to bringing ALPA on the property than you share the blame along with your colleagues who did the same.

John
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tailgunner
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by tailgunner »

John,
When your wife left, did she grant you an exit interview?
Her answers may have been enlightening for you.
Be better.
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Victory
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by Victory »

I'm surprised you guys don't learn you don't get anyone on your side by acting like jerks.
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Demeter
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by Demeter »

^ best post in a long time.
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av8ts
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by av8ts »

Demeter wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:34 pm
^ best post in a long time.
The one about John’s wife. I know. Burn
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complexintentions
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by complexintentions »

Anonymously taking shots at someone about their wife or failed marriage truly does demonstrate a unique level of grotesqueness.

At least it shows nice Canadian WestJetters for what they really are: just as big of pieces of shit as anyone anywhere.

From a bargaining point of view there's value in having that so openly displayed, I suppose. Not pretty though, and not really possible to justify it, no matter your thoughts on Swoop or unions or whatever.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by WeedPro2000 »

When you are able to step over the railing of a 500 foot bridge and then leap off, trusting in your packing skill to enable a successful opening followed by a successful landing, you learn a little about courage. Not saying it’s the only way to confront and overcome fear, just saying that for me, I’ve been able to do it this way.

When you openly court unpopular opinions, it takes a little courage as well. I’m ok with that. Potshots from anonymous posters who are just too chicken to do so without that veil of secrecy make me laugh. Whatever chump. Try harder.

I just finished my last monitor meeting with my company yesterday. I’m not proud to admit that I had to ask for help 5 years ago, but I did have that courage. Among other things, I was a practicing alcoholic 5 years ago. WestJet answered that call for me, and for that they will always have my loyalty and gratitude. That journey of sobriety started July 9, 2013, and one of the casualties of that journey was my marriage. Shit happens.

I mention the above only as a way of saying that I have no more secrets. That matter. Along the way I’ve learned that the opinions of others just don’t mean anything. As long as I’m happy, and I am, nothing else matters. If I have some real life issues to deal with, I jump off a bridge or put on a wingsuit or read some German. I just don’t ever use the bottle as my escape anymore.

Anyhow I’m off to skydive. You guys keep doing what you do best, which seems to be bitching. I’m sure you’ll get it all figured out at some point. Or not...
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complexintentions
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by complexintentions »

Speaking of German, oh. my. God. that was a crazy ending to Germany-Sweden in Russia.

(Obscure World Cup reference for the North Americans, apologies.)

Go Deutschland! Who gives a shit about flying anyway? Small potatoes in the grand scheme of well, anything! :mrgreen:
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cloak
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by cloak »

I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
WeedPro2000, good for you for your courage, honesty, and forgiveness. All have imperfections, some know them, some don't! Good luck.
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RVR6000
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by RVR6000 »

cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
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cloak
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by cloak »

RVR6000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 pm
cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
Well dear, if you've been on the property for a while, you'd know that things have not always been so rosy. My point was that an employee group need not have a union to get a "fair" remuneration. Ultimately the market and supply and demand determine that. For instance in those "dark" times Air Canada also had a union, but now the market forces have improved some of the conditions, but not all. For instance the entry level pay is still very low compared with U.S carriers. That too will be driven up by the market, because the union is clearly not going to be too concerned with that....just saying!
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sicamore
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by sicamore »

RVR6000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 pm
cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
maybe so, but they are a flag carrier. Who's to say the rates couldn't be better in a non union environment with pilots together as a part of the whole.

Personally, I can't stand the idea of unions, however in this cutthroat aviation environment show-casting the worst of capitalism, I fear they are a necessary evil.
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digits_
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by digits_ »

cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:30 pm
For instance the entry level pay is still very low compared with U.S carriers. That too will be driven up by the market, because the union is clearly not going to be too concerned with that....just saying!
Yup, and then the union will reduce the raise that the company wants to give the entry levels, because they feel the senior guys also deserve a piece of the pie.
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MrTurbine
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by MrTurbine »

sicamore wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 pm
RVR6000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 pm
cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
maybe so, but they are a flag carrier. Who's to say the rates couldn't be better in a non union environment with pilots together as a part of the whole.

Personally, I can't stand the idea of unions, however in this cutthroat aviation environment show-casting the worst of capitalism, I fear they are a necessary evil.
Necessary evil is an interesting term. Talking about ALPA specifically, it can be really good, or really pointless. End of the day, it all depends on who the union representatives are, and what they would like to do for the company. Good case in point, when a few majors in the US needed a decent backbone, or in recent times WJ needed some support, ALPA was able to help out in a legal form as necessary. But at the same time, there can be negative cases of unions working, like KF has for the last many years. It’s all about people. Management always wants to get the job done for the lowest amount of money. And it all makes sense business wise. But sometimes , pilots like to be treated like human beings that are worth something, rather than a piece of disposable trash pushing buttons.
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MrTurbine
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by MrTurbine »

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:48 am
When you are able to step over the railing of a 500 foot bridge and then leap off, trusting in your packing skill to enable a successful opening followed by a successful landing, you learn a little about courage. Not saying it’s the only way to confront and overcome fear, just saying that for me, I’ve been able to do it this way.

When you openly court unpopular opinions, it takes a little courage as well. I’m ok with that. Potshots from anonymous posters who are just too chicken to do so without that veil of secrecy make me laugh. Whatever chump. Try harder.

I just finished my last monitor meeting with my company yesterday. I’m not proud to admit that I had to ask for help 5 years ago, but I did have that courage. Among other things, I was a practicing alcoholic 5 years ago. WestJet answered that call for me, and for that they will always have my loyalty and gratitude. That journey of sobriety started July 9, 2013, and one of the casualties of that journey was my marriage. Shit happens.

I mention the above only as a way of saying that I have no more secrets. That matter. Along the way I’ve learned that the opinions of others just don’t mean anything. As long as I’m happy, and I am, nothing else matters. If I have some real life issues to deal with, I jump off a bridge or put on a wingsuit or read some German. I just don’t ever use the bottle as my escape anymore.

Anyhow I’m off to skydive. You guys keep doing what you do best, which seems to be bitching. I’m sure you’ll get it all figured out at some point. Or not...
JS,
I almost always disagree with you in terms of ALPA and all things WS, and pretty much most things you say. But putting all that aside, real proud of you for your sobriety and owning up to it. We all have something to learn from you. Good job. You are right , shit happens. But admitting it is the biggest step in the healing process. Well done.
And in terms of bitching, that’s not what most of us are trying to do. We all want the company to succeed, because we have a lot of blood, sweat, tears and cold hard cash invested in here. We all just need to be open to discussion and debate on here. Los of learning happening for the freshman joining the team. Try not to be too negative. We might agree on more than you think.

Cheers.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by Alcoholism »

RVR6000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 pm
cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
Yes, being one of the lowest paid heavy drivers in NA and most of the world, locked into a long term contract and with archaic reserve&draft rules and a host of other contract deficiencies. You might as well be picking up trash at the end of the flight.
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RVR6000
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by RVR6000 »

Alcoholism wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:02 am
RVR6000 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 pm
cloak wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:10 pm
I'm often amused by these young aces who think unions are going to bring them gold bars every day but ultimately pay and working conditions are determined by the market.
Well the union at AC has given decent pay rates, trip regs, and bonuses. And we’re not picking up trash at end of a flight, just saying
Yes, being one of the lowest paid heavy drivers in NA and most of the world, locked into a long term contract and with archaic reserve&draft rules and a host of other contract deficiencies. You might as well be picking up trash at the end of the flight. I’ll
Between $270-320k including Rouge 767 is the typical heavy drivers salary. If that makes us the lowest paid in ‘most of the world’ not sure what type of kool-aid you’re drinking. Many of like the stability of a 10 year deal that’s why it got a 86% approval vote.
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cloak
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Re: Workaround.....

Post by cloak »

While there may always be things that can be improved for work rules and such, but to be fair, AC has come a long way and the top pay is quite good, it's the starting pay that is bad and especially does not attract more experienced pilots into AC. U.S carriers on the other hand have been forced (by the market) to increase the pay quite a bit.
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