Westjet mainline commuting

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digits_
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Westjet mainline commuting

Post by digits_ »

Hi all,

with the new ad for FOs, I was wondering what the current westjet mainline commuting policy is, and if it is doable for a junior FO out of CYWG? How many days could you realistically expect to be home?

What is the mainline FO pay like?

Most information I find is either about Encore or really dated.

Thank you very much,
Regards,
digits
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tps8903 »

digits_ wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:35 pm Hi all,

with the new ad for FOs, I was wondering what the current westjet mainline commuting policy is, and if it is doable for a junior FO out of CYWG? How many days could you realistically expect to be home?

What is the mainline FO pay like?

Most information I find is either about Encore or really dated.

Thank you very much,
Regards,
digits
Policy is a good one. Need to be available for two flights, book only one. Paid for by WJ. Parking covered at your declared domicile.

Lots of folks from Winnipeg. Good location actually, makes it easy to switch bases if an upgrade opportunity presents itself.

Schedule and pay I don't know. I work for Encore. Commuting policy is the same.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Dizzy D »

digits_ wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:35 pm Hi all,

with the new ad for FOs, I was wondering what the current westjet mainline commuting policy is, and if it is doable for a junior FO out of CYWG? How many days could you realistically expect to be home?

What is the mainline FO pay like?

Most information I find is either about Encore or really dated.

Thank you very much,
Regards,
digits
I think your chances of getting hired at mainline may be slowly disappearing. Now that their is flow from Encore to Swoop, and position bids from swoop to WJ mainline, I don’t think there will be much off the street hiring for WJ. Stranger things have happened though.

As far as commuting goes from YWG, it is very reasonable. There is no need to move to YYZ or YYC. Commuting for swoop might be a completely different story. I believe all the flying is single days (20 days a month???)
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Bede »

It is possible to bid late checkin early checkout. You'll still work 15-16 days but no commuting days.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by MrTurbine »

If you are new to the company, you will be stuck at swoop for a good few years. Our commuting policy company wide is one of the best I’ve ever come across. But swoop is not going to be commuter friendly, not for a while yet.
Don’t expect to be able to bid right away to Mainline, lots of folks at the yyz base want to come to YYC, and lots of (almost all) encore folks have their bid in for YYC and yyz, and will take whatever opens up first.
Know what you’re getting into. The Mainline FO ad is classic bait and switch. Yes , you are a WestJet pilot, but yes , you are at the bottom of the pilot list and there’s lots of people in line.

Good luck.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by KAG »

I'm not a ywg commuter but I do know the pilots that live there and bid ywg layovers get a lot of them.
The pay sucks but standby for new atis message on that front (CBA in sept). Regardless of what you hear it is a solid job and honestly I think the tide will turn morale wise. Even at its worst this job will seem pretty sweet, and that's on a bad day.
Good luck.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by goleafsgo »

So is that latest job posting from last week a mix of mainline and swoop flying or would someone hired be exclusively flying swoop?
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by flyinhigh »

If you are hired for swoop, that is where you will be for at least 2 years. As of right now, I believe there is no commuting policy for Swoop, it is only at Mainline and Encore.

As for positions, that have come up. There is approximately 50 Encore positions for flow this year (Between Mainline and Swoop), and that is pending to change for the better.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by digits_ »

Thank you all for the information. Certainly a lot to think about.

Does westjet have a system in place for trip drops, or to work less credits a month untill the seniority increases a bit to plan for a better schedule?
KAG wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:08 pm I'm not a ywg commuter but I do know the pilots that live there and bid ywg layovers get a lot of them.
The pay sucks but standby for new atis message on that front (CBA in sept). Regardless of what you hear it is a solid job and honestly I think the tide will turn morale wise. Even at its worst this job will seem pretty sweet, and that's on a bad day.
Good luck.
I found this payscale online: https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... an/westjet

Are those numbers still somewhat accurate (for now)?
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Bede »

digits_ wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:11 am Thank you all for the information. Certainly a lot to think about.

Does westjet have a system in place for trip drops, or to work less credits a month untill the seniority increases a bit to plan for a better schedule?
Yes on the Flica platform. It's a great system, but the only problem is that it's tough to drop stuff at straight time. People that want to fly more pick up OT. Lots want to fly less, especially the low credit stuff. I can usually drop high credit one day's and pairings with, lets say, BGI layovers.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

flyinhigh wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:45 am If you are hired for swoop, that is where you will be for at least 2 years. As of right now, I believe there is no commuting policy for Swoop, it is only at Mainline and Encore.

As for positions, that have come up. There is approximately 50 Encore positions for flow this year (Between Mainline and Swoop), and that is pending to change for the better.
There is no commuting policy at Swoop as of yet, but we do have some commuters from YHZ and YVR so it's possible. The real issue is a lack of any computerized bidding or the ability to bid for anything other than GDO's at the moment. I expect that will have to change in the future as tails are added but at the moment you get what you get and it's not very commuter friendly.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by KAG »

I dare say that will change pretty quick. As more westjet pilots flood into those positions, that will be a priority. Its also in managements best interest to turn this into a lifestyle job to help attract and retain pilots.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by MrTurbine »

KAG wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:12 pm I dare say that will change pretty quick. As more westjet pilots flood into those positions, that will be a priority. Its also in managements best interest to turn this into a lifestyle job to help attract and retain pilots.
Quite honestly I’m not trying to stir the pot. But, do you think it’s possible that flying for a Canadian ulcc to become more of a lifestyle job, at least anytime in the next five years?

What I mean to say is, if flair can treat its pilots like dirt, why wouldn’t swoop do the same?
I know the CBA is going to make swoop conditions better, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be that drastic. Having said that, for the sake of a few friends who just bit for spots there, I really hope I’m wrong.
But commuter friendly, I definitely don’t think that going to change that much, considering the amount of money they are saving on hotel costs by just have 1 and 2 day pairings. If you life in YEG or YHM, it’s the family mans dream to be home every night.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by KAG »

Honestly it'll depend on managements attitude about adopting a westjet like mentality. There will be a lot of westjet pilots who are accustomed to certain things and will push to make those changes. Given that and how many pilots could leave for greener pastures (AC) I think there is a real possibility that swoop could turn out to be a good job. Of course that remains to be seen, and honestly I'm known for being overly optimistic. Time will tell.
It behooves managment to treat its employees well, especially now when experienced pilots are in dwindling supplies and competition is fierce.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Eric Janson »

Disclaimer:- I'm not involved in the WestJet mess mess in any way.

Seems to me the smart option would be to wait - there's too much uncertainty and that makes it impossible to see what the future looks like.

Once everything is sorted out then you can look at it again and see how it fits with your career objectives.

A lot of conjecture and wishful thinking at the moment - not a great basis to make decisions on imho.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

MrTurbine wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:32 pm
KAG wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:12 pm I dare say that will change pretty quick. As more westjet pilots flood into those positions, that will be a priority. Its also in managements best interest to turn this into a lifestyle job to help attract and retain pilots.
Quite honestly I’m not trying to stir the pot. But, do you think it’s possible that flying for a Canadian ulcc to become more of a lifestyle job, at least anytime in the next five years?

What I mean to say is, if flair can treat its pilots like dirt, why wouldn’t swoop do the same?
I know the CBA is going to make swoop conditions better, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be that drastic. Having said that, for the sake of a few friends who just bit for spots there, I really hope I’m wrong.
But commuter friendly, I definitely don’t think that going to change that much, considering the amount of money they are saving on hotel costs by just have 1 and 2 day pairings. If you life in YEG or YHM, it’s the family mans dream to be home every night.
Right now it's absolutely a lifestyle job. None of us feel like we're being treated like dirt by Swoop. Most of our pairings are out and backs with some very efficient flying. That's probably going to continue to be the case moving forward out of YHM. I suspect the YEG base may fly more sectors due to the YEG-YXX route.

The average stage length is over 1300 miles and is forecast to continue moving forward. There is no YYZ-YUL-YOW triangle mess to deal with and the airports we do operate out of are low density so operational delays are minimized. On a strictly flying point of view we don't work nearly as hard as the mainline guys do. We've hashed out the pay/compensation issues vs mainline ad nauseam, but if you can live with Sunwing hourly rates plus profit/share and the 10% ESPP vs mainlines 20% it's a good place to be if you like being home most nights and working 15 days a month.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by MrTurbine »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:02 am
MrTurbine wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:32 pm
KAG wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:12 pm I dare say that will change pretty quick. As more westjet pilots flood into those positions, that will be a priority. Its also in managements best interest to turn this into a lifestyle job to help attract and retain pilots.
Quite honestly I’m not trying to stir the pot. But, do you think it’s possible that flying for a Canadian ulcc to become more of a lifestyle job, at least anytime in the next five years?

What I mean to say is, if flair can treat its pilots like dirt, why wouldn’t swoop do the same?
I know the CBA is going to make swoop conditions better, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be that drastic. Having said that, for the sake of a few friends who just bit for spots there, I really hope I’m wrong.
But commuter friendly, I definitely don’t think that going to change that much, considering the amount of money they are saving on hotel costs by just have 1 and 2 day pairings. If you life in YEG or YHM, it’s the family mans dream to be home every night.
Right now it's absolutely a lifestyle job. None of us feel like we're being treated like dirt by Swoop. Most of our pairings are out and backs with some very efficient flying. That's probably going to continue to be the case moving forward out of YHM. I suspect the YEG base may fly more sectors due to the YEG-YXX route.

The average stage length is over 1300 miles and is forecast to continue moving forward. There is no YYZ-YUL-YOW triangle mess to deal with and the airports we do operate out of are low density so operational delays are minimized. On a strictly flying point of view we don't work nearly as hard as the mainline guys do. We've hashed out the pay/compensation issues vs mainline ad nauseam, but if you can live with Sunwing hourly rates plus profit/share and the 10% ESPP vs mainlines 20% it's a good place to be if you like being home most nights and working 15 days a month.
Okay. But I’m a numbers guy. So if I’m commuting from Calgary, (which is the easiest commute of life) what is a one day pairing going to look like on a timeline? I understand that the pairings for now might be quite efficient, but what time would I be at the YYC airport and what time would I get back? Doing that 20 days a month is a bit nuts though
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

MrTurbine wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:04 am
tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:02 am
MrTurbine wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:32 pm

Quite honestly I’m not trying to stir the pot. But, do you think it’s possible that flying for a Canadian ulcc to become more of a lifestyle job, at least anytime in the next five years?

What I mean to say is, if flair can treat its pilots like dirt, why wouldn’t swoop do the same?
I know the CBA is going to make swoop conditions better, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be that drastic. Having said that, for the sake of a few friends who just bit for spots there, I really hope I’m wrong.
But commuter friendly, I definitely don’t think that going to change that much, considering the amount of money they are saving on hotel costs by just have 1 and 2 day pairings. If you life in YEG or YHM, it’s the family mans dream to be home every night.
Right now it's absolutely a lifestyle job. None of us feel like we're being treated like dirt by Swoop. Most of our pairings are out and backs with some very efficient flying. That's probably going to continue to be the case moving forward out of YHM. I suspect the YEG base may fly more sectors due to the YEG-YXX route.

The average stage length is over 1300 miles and is forecast to continue moving forward. There is no YYZ-YUL-YOW triangle mess to deal with and the airports we do operate out of are low density so operational delays are minimized. On a strictly flying point of view we don't work nearly as hard as the mainline guys do. We've hashed out the pay/compensation issues vs mainline ad nauseam, but if you can live with Sunwing hourly rates plus profit/share and the 10% ESPP vs mainlines 20% it's a good place to be if you like being home most nights and working 15 days a month.
Okay. But I’m a numbers guy. So if I’m commuting from Calgary, (which is the easiest commute of life) what is a one day pairing going to look like on a timeline? I understand that the pairings for now might be quite efficient, but what time would I be at the YYC airport and what time would I get back? Doing that 20 days a month is a bit nuts though
Commuting to YEG? or YHM?

YEG wouldn't be too tough, but it'd be a tough go commuting from YYC to YHM. It's mostly one day pairings at the moment so any commute is going to be miserable and require a crash pad for sure. We're not working anywhere near 20 days in a month though, it's more around 15 days of work to get 85-90 hours credit.
I'd suggest it's not really very commuter friendly for the first year or so until we get more aircraft and destinations and start to see more layovers and a proper bidding system where you can request multi day pairings and blocks of days off.

I don't know what the YEG pairings will look like but our pairings from YHM start anywhere from 0445 to 0700 ish and you're home by mid afternoon. YHZ goes a bit later from 1600-2200 daily.

The YEG-YXX stuff starts around 0700 and goes till evening 3x daily
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Last edited by tbaylx on Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by MrTurbine »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 am
MrTurbine wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:04 am
tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:02 am

Right now it's absolutely a lifestyle job. None of us feel like we're being treated like dirt by Swoop. Most of our pairings are out and backs with some very efficient flying. That's probably going to continue to be the case moving forward out of YHM. I suspect the YEG base may fly more sectors due to the YEG-YXX route.

The average stage length is over 1300 miles and is forecast to continue moving forward. There is no YYZ-YUL-YOW triangle mess to deal with and the airports we do operate out of are low density so operational delays are minimized. On a strictly flying point of view we don't work nearly as hard as the mainline guys do. We've hashed out the pay/compensation issues vs mainline ad nauseam, but if you can live with Sunwing hourly rates plus profit/share and the 10% ESPP vs mainlines 20% it's a good place to be if you like being home most nights and working 15 days a month.
Okay. But I’m a numbers guy. So if I’m commuting from Calgary, (which is the easiest commute of life) what is a one day pairing going to look like on a timeline? I understand that the pairings for now might be quite efficient, but what time would I be at the YYC airport and what time would I get back? Doing that 20 days a month is a bit nuts though
Commuting to YEG? or YHM?

YEG wouldn't be too tough, but it'd be a tough go commuting from YYC to YHM. It's mostly one day pairings at the moment so any commute is going to be miserable and require a crash pad for sure. We're not working anywhere near 20 days in a month though, it's more around 15 days of work to get 85-90 hours credit.
I'd suggest it's not really very commuter friendly for the first year or so until we get more aircraft and destinations and start to see more layovers and a proper bidding system where you can request multi day pairings and blocks of days off.
Commuting YYC to YEG, but that’s what I thought. So as of right now, I believe the consensus is that swoop is NOT commuter friendly. Because if you can’t make YYC to YEG work, then you can’t make any commute work.
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