Westjet mainline commuting

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Oscar
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#26 Post by Oscar » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:44 am

tbaylx wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:23 am
If you're willing to drive occasionally you could easily make YYC-YEG commute work. If you had multiple one day parings though you'd want a crash pad i would guess.
How's the commute going to work when you slide to the right seat Q400?
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Anticyclone
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#27 Post by Anticyclone » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:48 am

Guys why don't we stop barking at each other the white collars with the 6-7 digits salary love this division, as flyboys we all want the same thing so we need to show unity, strenth and construtive work.
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Hangry
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#28 Post by Hangry » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:02 am

How can there be unity when an OTS troll who took advantage of a labour dispute is sitting left seat in a freshly painted tail designed to crush the unity of the pilot group.

The white collars do love it though. Too bad pilots always have to hand it to them on a platter undercutting one another.
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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#29 Post by tbaylx » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:19 am

Hangry wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:02 am
How can there be unity when an OTS troll who took advantage of a labour dispute is sitting left seat in a freshly painted tail designed to crush the unity of the pilot group.

The white collars do love it though. Too bad pilots always have to hand it to them on a platter undercutting one another.
You’ve lost any credibility in passing judgements on others.

Personal attacks, harassing pilots via social media, text and phone calls, threats against pilots families, recruitment bans, cat calls over the radio on ATC frequencies, flipping off other pilots as they taxi by, searching through social media for things to report to corporate security are just some of the things you have managed to justify and pull off over the last few months. I’d be embarrassed about the conduct of my peers if I were you and spend some time thinking about your own conduct before commenting on anyone else.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#30 Post by jjj » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:10 pm

With exception of the hiring ban which came first - the list above is frankly unacceptable. The response has been over the top but understandable.

Tbalx - you’re calling out the conduct of others yet seem to believe that your own conduct somehow beyond reproach.

You pissed in people’s cornflakes and they’re mad. Now you have the luxury of standing behind a conduct in the workplace policy as well as a union to defend you. The irony of the situation seems to be lost on you.

JJJ
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Last edited by jjj on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#31 Post by tbaylx » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:17 pm

jjj wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:10 pm
With exception of the hiring ban which came first - the list above is frankly unacceptable.

Tbalx - you’re calling out the conduct of others yet seem to believe that your own conduct somehow doesn’t matter. You and your kind have behaved far from exemplary.

You pissed in people’s cornflakes and they’re mad.

JJJ
I've never once made a personal attack against anyone despite taking lots in return. I get that they're mad and disagree with us and that's fine, but there is no excuse for conducting yourself unprofessionally and I try to keep that in mind with my posts on here. If I've at any time acted unprofessionally in my responses then i regret that, but I'm fairly confident I've never personally attacked anyone.

Think we aren't mad at some of the stuff thrown our way? Yet you don't see any of the Swoop OTS guys making personal threats or gloating or acting like children who didn't get their way. You can can have a difference of opinion and still act like an adult. There are plenty of pros at Westjet that do just that.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#32 Post by jjj » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:45 pm

Walking in off the street during a hiring ban in the middle of a labour dispute to circumvent the existing queue is a personal attack.

We’ve been discussing it for months and what is no longer merely an opinion is to whom the Swoop flying belongs. That has been decided definitively in arbitration so it seems many of your opponents on this site were justified.

Why don’t you go back a few months Tbaylx and re-read the threads on th matter knowing how Kaplan has ruled. It supports the opinion of your antangonists and bursts your little bubble.

You want peace in the workplace - then show some humility.

JJJ
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Last edited by jjj on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#33 Post by tbaylx » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:51 pm

jjj wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:45 pm
Walking in off the street during a hiring ban in the middle of a labour dispute to circumvent the existing queue is a personal attack.

JJJ
No it isn’t. At the time they weren’t in any queue. They were jobs posted on an open market. It could easily have gone the other way and operated as a completely separate company. There isn’t anything personal in that, it’s business. Your fight has always been with the company, but some of you have chosen to take the low road and go after the pilots.
Fine, but if you can’t keep from personal attacks and acting unprofessional in the discussion then that reflects poorly on the WestJet pilot group.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#34 Post by jjj » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:59 pm

Let’s be clear Tbaylx,

I do not condone personal attacks nor have I made any.

I strictly explain what is my opinion and what is fact.

You claim there was no queue? That is balderdash. We had a contract that said there was - discussed many times here so that almost anyone can quote the section. On what basis do you think Mr. Kaplan’s made his decision? The case for ownership of flying and a queue is wholly justified.

Yes there is a dispute with the company and there is also a dispute with you. They are interconnected yet I assure you you are not bearing the brunt of anyone else’s actions.

JJJ
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moe
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#35 Post by moe » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:44 pm

tbay=BOTL
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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#36 Post by tbaylx » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:32 pm

moe wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:44 pm
tbay=BOTL
Love you too Moe, could care less where I sit on your list.

JJJ,
If the dispute is with us and the company does that include the entire first class of FA's as well that your group managed to alienate on their flight out to YYC? You have a group of bullies trying to push around anyone associated with Swoop cause they didn't like what happened. It's embarrassing for the majority of pilots there that are trying to maintain some semblance of a professional group.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#37 Post by WeedPro2000 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:33 pm

jjj wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:59 pm
Let’s be clear Tbaylx,

I do not condone personal attacks nor have I made any.

I strictly explain what is my opinion and what is fact.

You claim there was no queue? That is balderdash. We had a contract that said there was - discussed many times here so that almost anyone can quote the section. On what basis do you think Mr. Kaplan’s made his decision? The case for ownership of flying and a queue is wholly justified.

Yes there is a dispute with the company and there is also a dispute with you. They are interconnected yet I assure you you are not bearing the brunt of anyone else’s actions.

JJJ
James, I don't want to split hairs, but if you had a contract that specified you had a right to that flying, why didn't you defend it in court? Why didn't ALPA? The working conditions were frozen as per the statutory freeze, and any violation of that freeze would be actionable (as was done with the LOA's). So, was there a contract as you say? Was there a violation of the statutory freeze as you would seem to imply. And if there was no violation of the stautory freeze, might that explain why ALPA did not contest the staffing at Swoop?
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#38 Post by Bede » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:00 pm

Weedpro,

You keep asking rhetorical questions that have been answered previously.

Again, ALPA did fight this legally before the CIRB (which is the proper forum, not a Superior court) via a ULP complaint. They elected not to persue it as it would take too long to resolve and would put a pause in our negotiations. Better to negotiate it out.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#39 Post by Transonic » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Bede wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:00 pm
Better to negotiate it out.
Which ended up being successful in the end and to WeedPro's dismay, resulted in a common employer. Well done ALPA.
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cloak
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#40 Post by cloak » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:19 pm

Mob mentality, cyber-bullying anonymously or unprofessional conduct and comments not only will diminish the image of the group, but in the end hurt the bullies more than anyone else; because they are the ones that have to live within that perceived reality every day. One who is miserable and ungrateful in victory or defeat, knows no happiness!
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#41 Post by KAG » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:21 am

tbaylx wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:17 pm
jjj wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:10 pm
With exception of the hiring ban which came first - the list above is frankly unacceptable.

Tbalx - you’re calling out the conduct of others yet seem to believe that your own conduct somehow doesn’t matter. You and your kind have behaved far from exemplary.

You pissed in people’s cornflakes and they’re mad.

JJJ
I've never once made a personal attack against anyone despite taking lots in return. I get that they're mad and disagree with us and that's fine, but there is no excuse for conducting yourself unprofessionally and I try to keep that in mind with my posts on here. If I've at any time acted unprofessionally in my responses then i regret that, but I'm fairly confident I've never personally attacked anyone.

Think we aren't mad at some of the stuff thrown our way? Yet you don't see any of the Swoop OTS guys making personal threats or gloating or acting like children who didn't get their way. You can can have a difference of opinion and still act like an adult. There are plenty of pros at Westjet that do just that.
Actually that's not true. At least from one fella, who gloated online about crossing the line, among other things that dont need to be brought up here. It's a 2 way street.
Fact is, you took a job during a labour dispute and pissed off 2000 of your peers. Personally I'd back off the defensive stance and pipe down. Sure it sucks to be talked down to but honestly, what did you expect? Hey we're fighting for proper conditions and representation but it's cool, take my job for 40% less, and insure years of whipsawing and such, welcome to westjet.

That all said, I'm confident this will blow over in time. I'm looking forward to that.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#42 Post by Tango Niner » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:33 pm

cloak wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:19 pm
Mob mentality, cyber-bullying anonymously or unprofessional conduct and comments not only will diminish the image of the group, but in the end hurt the bullies more than anyone else; because they are the ones that have to live within that perceived reality every day. One who is miserable and ungrateful in victory or defeat, knows no happiness!
+ 1. Time to turn the page and move on.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#43 Post by RidersRule » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:35 pm

Tango Niner wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:33 pm
cloak wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:19 pm
Mob mentality, cyber-bullying anonymously or unprofessional conduct and comments not only will diminish the image of the group, but in the end hurt the bullies more than anyone else; because they are the ones that have to live within that perceived reality every day. One who is miserable and ungrateful in victory or defeat, knows no happiness!
+ 1. Time to turn the page and move on.
Possibly...

Depends how the arbitrator rules.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#44 Post by Transonic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 am

The page has yet to be finished.

I believe the arbitrator has thrown the decision regarding the OTS pilots back to WestJet. Now the question is does WestJet want to carry the burden of perpetual bypass pay to remain loyal to the 26 OTS CAs?

When thinking of that, keep in mind that the two EVPs that had their hands dirtiest in this mess just got retired (fired). OTS hiring was GS's strategy and it failed misirably resulting in the first quarterly loss since the Jetsgo days. At least for the senior leadership, all those that touched it are now gone/will be gone to erase the past.

There is one more mistake to be erased and it saves money....
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Last edited by Transonic on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RidersRule
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#45 Post by RidersRule » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:55 am

Exactly.

$103 an hour is cheap labour for a 737 driver.

$206/ hour not so much, but probably WestJet could still swallow that.

However if the arbitrator rules that Swoop pilots get WestJet rates, with bypass pay you could be looking upwards of $300 an hour. I can’t see WestJet wanting to go that route being how cheap this company has been over the last couple years.
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Last edited by RidersRule on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Transonic
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#46 Post by Transonic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:53 pm

duplicate.
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seriousflyer
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#47 Post by seriousflyer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:48 pm

I would agree with Transoceanic assessment of the EVP changes this summer... the main Execs. who built swoop and other dramatic business changes over the last 2-5 years are gone. There is one more wrong to right....and then all the new blood will be driving this airline into the next 5 years with a totally different mentality then the predecessors. Same business plan but different execution.
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#48 Post by Tacoma » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Exactly. I read the EVP job ads andjydt want to yell enough of the bullsh!t. Turn a new direction. Cost cutting has destroyed the company and cost so much!! Own up to past mistakes and start fresh.
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tallyho
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

#49 Post by tallyho » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:22 pm

This is the funniest thread yet, the guy (tbalyx) who knowingly took WJ pilots jobs is trying to take the moral high ground. Delusional. Brilliant!!!!!!!!
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