Whoops....Swoops

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land3
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Whoops....Swoops

Post by land3 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:53 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4870626

Begs the question....is 787 overseas being marketed yet, and if so does WJ have the related approvals and slots for long haul ops?
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eliteair
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by eliteair » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:39 pm

land3 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:53 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4870626

Begs the question....is 787 overseas being marketed yet, and if so does WJ have the related approvals and slots for long haul ops?
This can't be a serious question in an airline forum but...
FYI; they already fly to LGW, DUB and CDG. Only thing needed for the 787 is ETOPS, which they'll get quickly.
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True North
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by True North » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:09 pm

eliteair wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:39 pm
land3 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:53 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4870626

Begs the question....is 787 overseas being marketed yet, and if so does WJ have the related approvals and slots for long haul ops?
This can't be a serious question in an airline forum but...
FYI; they already fly to LGW, DUB and CDG. Only thing needed for the 787 is ETOPS, which they'll get quickly.
Actually it's not that simple either. Anytime an airline adds a new type they must get regulatory approval from every country they want to fly to with that type. That said, getting another type approval for WestJet will be very straight forward as they have done it several times now. More to the original point, Swoop is Swoop and WestJet is WestJet, separate entities. The fact that Swoop does not seem to have their act together regarding regulatory approvals is no reflection on WestJet's capabilities.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by Eric Janson » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am

True North wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:09 pm
Actually it's not that simple either. Anytime an airline adds a new type they must get regulatory approval from every country they want to fly to with that type.
That's not correct - the aircraft already has ETOPS approval from the various CAAs as part of the Type Certification process.

For individual Airlines ETOPS approval is given by the state of registry.
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True North
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by True North » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:54 am

Eric Janson wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am
True North wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:09 pm
Actually it's not that simple either. Anytime an airline adds a new type they must get regulatory approval from every country they want to fly to with that type.
That's not correct - the aircraft already has ETOPS approval from the various CAAs as part of the Type Certification process.

For individual Airlines ETOPS approval is given by the state of registry.
It's not about ETOPS, it's type approval. When WestJet receives their first 787 it will be added to their Air Operator Certificate which means they can fly it in Canada. They need a foreign AOC from each country they want to fly to. Same as any foreign carrier that wants to fly to Canada, they require a Canadian foreign AOC. It is proof they meet all the regulatory requirements to fly in the specified country.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by Eric Janson » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm

True North wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:54 am
Eric Janson wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am
True North wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:09 pm
Actually it's not that simple either. Anytime an airline adds a new type they must get regulatory approval from every country they want to fly to with that type.
That's not correct - the aircraft already has ETOPS approval from the various CAAs as part of the Type Certification process.

For individual Airlines ETOPS approval is given by the state of registry.
It's not about ETOPS, it's type approval. When WestJet receives their first 787 it will be added to their Air Operator Certificate which means they can fly it in Canada. They need a foreign AOC from each country they want to fly to. Same as any foreign carrier that wants to fly to Canada, they require a Canadian foreign AOC. It is proof they meet all the regulatory requirements to fly in the specified country.
Ok thanks for the clarification.

Still don't agree - my company is a global ACMI provider. We do not have an AOC for every country we fly to. We fly to Canada and the US on a regular basis and we don't have an AOC for either country. We just have an EASA issued AOC.
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True North
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by True North » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:59 am

Eric Janson wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm
True North wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:54 am
Eric Janson wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am


That's not correct - the aircraft already has ETOPS approval from the various CAAs as part of the Type Certification process.

For individual Airlines ETOPS approval is given by the state of registry.
It's not about ETOPS, it's type approval. When WestJet receives their first 787 it will be added to their Air Operator Certificate which means they can fly it in Canada. They need a foreign AOC from each country they want to fly to. Same as any foreign carrier that wants to fly to Canada, they require a Canadian foreign AOC. It is proof they meet all the regulatory requirements to fly in the specified country.
Ok thanks for the clarification.

Still don't agree - my company is a global ACMI provider. We do not have an AOC for every country we fly to. We fly to Canada and the US on a regular basis and we don't have an AOC for either country. We just have an EASA issued AOC.
I'm not sure how things are treated by EASA but I'm quite certain it's the same as Transport Canada and the FAA. I am referring specifically to airline operations and every airline requires the Ops Spec for all the countries they intend to operate in, which is issued by the respective regulatory authority and attached to the AOC.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Whoops....Swoops

Post by Eric Janson » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:12 am

[quote="True North" post_id=1055956 time=1540130088 user_id=16874
I'm not sure how things are treated by EASA but I'm quite certain it's the same as Transport Canada and the FAA. I am referring specifically to airline operations and every airline requires the Ops Spec for all the countries they intend to operate in, which is issued by the respective regulatory authority and attached to the AOC.
[/quote]

Did some research as I'm not familiar with the procedures. You are correct.

EASA will issue a TCO (Third Country Operator) certificate which validates the AOC by adding an attachment listing the approved operations. Approved operations will be based on what was approved by the state of registry (LoVis, Dangerous Goods etc.).

What I didn't know was that an operator needs additional approval from the state before starting a route to that state under EASA.

There are provisions for a one-time approval as well.
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