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cloak
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by cloak » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:14 am

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Re: Poll: Have Your Say: The One List under ALPA?

Post by cloak » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:16 am

Stupid question: if there is one list between WestJet and Encore, why was this LOU being presented and pursued as of November?
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Re: LOU Proposal Nov 2, 2018

Post by CaptainHaddock » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:41 pm

‘As a pilot at WJ, I do have a clear interest in knowing how the MEC plans to address the issues surrounding the WPDL legacy.’

Pick up your phone and call your rep, or ask away on a public chat room sounding off like a victim. One will give you an answer, the other will drag this silly thread on. The change in MEC executive won’t change the WPDL process.
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Re: LOU Proposal Nov 2, 2018

Post by Lightchop » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:51 pm

China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:21 am
Bede wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:39 am
There is not a new MEC. There is a new executive.
Quibbling over semantics, Francis? Wouldn't you rather answer the question posed in the thread title? In the absence of a clear reason for the sacking of the MEC chairman, it is a reasonable inference that his removal had something to do with his communication seven days prior in which he announced that the MEC would be approaching WJ soon with a proposed LOU regarding recognizing the seniority rights of WJE pilots "within the WestJet group."

Did the MEC have the authorization of the ALPA President to begin negotiating with WJ regarding a merger of the seniority lists of WJ and WJE pilots?

If as you say, the WJ MEC today is the same MEC as on November 2, 2018, then I would ask this question:

Does the WJ MEC intent to follow through its announced intention to present an LOU soon to WJ that will propose a merger of the seniority lists of WJ and WJE pilots?

hurtin' albertan, I think the 500 WJE pilots have an interest in knowing the intentions of the MEC. They are not members of the WJ ALPA bargaining unit and therefore not able to access the WJ MEC nor any of the WJ LEC's. As a non-member of ALPA, I am in the same boat. As a pilot at WJ, I do have a clear interest in knowing how the MEC plans to address the issues surrounding the WPDL legacy.

Semantics. NO. It's not semantics.

The MEC or "Master Executive Council" consists or the ELECTED LEC reps and the MEC Chair (who is appointed by the ELECTED LEC representatives). The MEC Executive consist of the MEC Chair, Vice Chair and Sec/Treasurer who get their mandate from the Master Executive Council who in turn get their mandate from the MEMBERS. You know, joe blow line pilot. Not the other way around. Sounds like you have no fucking clue about anything and really like to harp on a union that you know nothing about.

The MEC can negotiate whatever the hell they want without the "ALPA President" signing off. WJ ALPA owns their list and they can do whatever they want with it PROVIDED THE MEMBERSHIP VOTES YES. You SERIOUSLY have no idea how anything works, you are making a fool of yourself on here.

MEC/Negots negotiate a deal or LOU. It then gets passed to the MEC (see my note above on what the MEC is) and if the MEC says "we like this" then it goes to the members.

The union can negotiate whatever the @#$! they want. They could say "HEY LETS INVERT THE LIST YOLO" and if it passes (it won't) then it passes and becomes law.

Give it a rest already. For a guy who is so anti ALPA and isn't even a member you really like to pretend that you know how it all works.
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Last edited by Lightchop on Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LOU Proposal Nov 2, 2018

Post by Lightchop » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:56 pm

CaptainHaddock wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:41 pm
‘As a pilot at WJ, I do have a clear interest in knowing how the MEC plans to address the issues surrounding the WPDL legacy.’

Pick up your phone and call your rep, or ask away on a public chat room sounding off like a victim. One will give you an answer, the other will drag this silly thread on. The change in MEC executive won’t change the WPDL process.

By calling his rep he would be "giving in" to the union. Remember this is a fella who refuses to sign an ALPA card and is one of the most vocal ANTI ALPA members on this site. You really think he's going to call his rep? I forsee a higher probability of it snowing in July.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by pelmet » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:34 pm

Sorry guys, I hope you don't mind.....I followed part of the thread and then missed a bunch. As an update for me, how many of the Swoop captains(I believe they will be F/O's) will be staying on/leaving. What about the Swoop F.O's.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by FICU » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:05 pm

I’m sure Flair is happy they were punted from the left seat. Your favourite OTS Swoopster is over there chasing his left seat from what I’ve heard.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by RidersRule » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:47 pm

Heard there is 16 left, that was a couple weeks ago.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by DropTanks » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:00 pm

Last I heard was 14 this past week.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by RidersRule » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:29 pm

Could be. I know Tablyx has gone to Flair.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Tacoma » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:31 pm

I see Tablyx is still on westnet!?

Are westjet pilots who are at swoop wearing the WJ uniform or swoop shirt. Saw a Facebook a guy wearing his WJ uniform there. Kudos and proud if that’s the case.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm

It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:32 am

What was the outcome with salary and working conditions? Did the Westjet pilots who went to Swoop keep their salary or take a pay cut?
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by DropTanks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:54 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:29 pm
Could be. I know Tablyx has gone to Flair.
For realz?
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by .80@410 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:07 am

cloak wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm
It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Curious ... Are you at WJ ? If not then how could your opinion have any weight if it doesn’t affect you in any way? Who are you to tell those that it directly affects that they are immature and pathetic ? You ignore this one issue and you might as well put up an neon sign telling other Scabs it’s ok to F your peers.
Good on ALPA for fighting it.

We’ve got 14 of them left. Some of them think they will be saved by chasing a training Captain position. The arbitrator has been made aware and with any luck he will deal with that too.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am
mbav8r wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:04 am
Donald wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:32 am
At $110K/year, the DEC spot at Flair represents a status, pay, and social standing upgrade for the OTS swoopsters.

Seems like a win-win-win and a good move for the likes of tbaylx.
Based on his(tblaylx) post in the flair forum, I’m guessing he’s already applied.
As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:56 pm

.80@410 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:07 am
cloak wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm
It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Curious ... Are you at WJ ? If not then how could your opinion have any weight if it doesn’t affect you in any way? Who are you to tell those that it directly affects that they are immature and pathetic ? You ignore this one issue and you might as well put up an neon sign telling other Scabs it’s ok to F your peers.
Good on ALPA for fighting it.

We’ve got 14 of them left. Some of them think they will be saved by chasing a training Captain position. The arbitrator has been made aware and with any luck he will deal with that too.
Maybe I am, maybe I'm not; maybe you are, maybe you're not. The fact is that it makes no difference, but you would rather play to people's emotions and make enemies out of certain people which makes it easy for you to attack them. This age old tactic, this mob mentality is pathetic! I could explain my points, but in a heavily charged atmosphere when it's so much fun for you guys to bully a few people from the comfort of your homes, it's pointless.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am
mbav8r wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:04 am

Based on his(tblaylx) post in the flair forum, I’m guessing he’s already applied.
As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:17 pm

.80@410 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:07 am
cloak wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm
It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Curious ... Are you at WJ ? If not then how could your opinion have any weight if it doesn’t affect you in any way? Who are you to tell those that it directly affects that they are immature and pathetic ? You ignore this one issue and you might as well put up an neon sign telling other Scabs it’s ok to F your peers.
Good on ALPA for fighting it.

We’ve got 14 of them left. Some of them think they will be saved by chasing a training Captain position. The arbitrator has been made aware and with any luck he will deal with that too.
Unless you start sending over pilots with more experience and 705 jet command time you're going to have to keep some of those 14 in training roles or close the whole operation and bring it back to Westjet (sadly that is actually what some pilots at Westjet and Swoop would like to see happen). There are very few current Swoop pilots that are experienced enough to be able to enter into a training role for at least the next year or so.

How would you realistically propose Swoop staff its training department? I know one proposal from the MEC involved the newly upgraded Westjet FO's take over the training department since once they have 100 hours on type it's technically legal under the CARs. Are you suggesting that is what should happen?
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm
mbav8r wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am


As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Mach1 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:22 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Of all the OTS hires, hearing of your departure has made me the happiest.

Long inhale.... long and satisfied exhale. Smells a little nicer and a little fresher around here.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
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Last edited by cloak on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:46 pm

Mach1 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:22 pm
Of all the OTS hires, hearing of your departure has made me the happiest.

Long inhale.... long and satisfied exhale. Smells a little nicer and a little fresher around here.
Do you honestly believe that the problem was the OTS pilots and life at WestJet was and is problem free before and after them?!
Anger, worse yet misplaced anger, is of no use, neither is bullying. Perhaps time for moving forward, mending relationships and building bridges.
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Last edited by cloak on Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm

cloak wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
mbav8r wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Rezy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:26 pm

cloak wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm
It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Conceded 6 or 7 goals? How could you possibly know that? There isn’t a contract in place yet! So you are just posturing. ALPA is laser focused on the formal arbitration arguments coming up in early December and there haven’t been any concecessions.
Scope is by far the most important part of a contract and ALPA protected it for all WJ pilots.
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