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mbav8r
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r »

tbaylx wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am
mbav8r wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:04 am
Donald wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:32 am At $110K/year, the DEC spot at Flair represents a status, pay, and social standing upgrade for the OTS swoopsters.

Seems like a win-win-win and a good move for the likes of tbaylx.
Based on his(tblaylx) post in the flair forum, I’m guessing he’s already applied.
As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
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cloak
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak »

.80@410 wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:07 am
cloak wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Curious ... Are you at WJ ? If not then how could your opinion have any weight if it doesn’t affect you in any way? Who are you to tell those that it directly affects that they are immature and pathetic ? You ignore this one issue and you might as well put up an neon sign telling other Scabs it’s ok to F your peers.
Good on ALPA for fighting it.

We’ve got 14 of them left. Some of them think they will be saved by chasing a training Captain position. The arbitrator has been made aware and with any luck he will deal with that too.
Maybe I am, maybe I'm not; maybe you are, maybe you're not. The fact is that it makes no difference, but you would rather play to people's emotions and make enemies out of certain people which makes it easy for you to attack them. This age old tactic, this mob mentality is pathetic! I could explain my points, but in a heavily charged atmosphere when it's so much fun for you guys to bully a few people from the comfort of your homes, it's pointless.
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tbaylx
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx »

mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
tbaylx wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am
mbav8r wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:04 am
Based on his(tblaylx) post in the flair forum, I’m guessing he’s already applied.
As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
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tbaylx
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx »

.80@410 wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:07 am
cloak wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Curious ... Are you at WJ ? If not then how could your opinion have any weight if it doesn’t affect you in any way? Who are you to tell those that it directly affects that they are immature and pathetic ? You ignore this one issue and you might as well put up an neon sign telling other Scabs it’s ok to F your peers.
Good on ALPA for fighting it.

We’ve got 14 of them left. Some of them think they will be saved by chasing a training Captain position. The arbitrator has been made aware and with any luck he will deal with that too.
Unless you start sending over pilots with more experience and 705 jet command time you're going to have to keep some of those 14 in training roles or close the whole operation and bring it back to Westjet (sadly that is actually what some pilots at Westjet and Swoop would like to see happen). There are very few current Swoop pilots that are experienced enough to be able to enter into a training role for at least the next year or so.

How would you realistically propose Swoop staff its training department? I know one proposal from the MEC involved the newly upgraded Westjet FO's take over the training department since once they have 100 hours on type it's technically legal under the CARs. Are you suggesting that is what should happen?
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mbav8r
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
tbaylx wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:59 am

As you so constantly demonstrate here pilots are able to post in the other forums where they aren't currently employed.

The OTS pilots at Swoop were hired for their experience and those who want to go elsewhere won't have any trouble finding work if they so choose.
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Mach1 »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Of all the OTS hires, hearing of your departure has made me the happiest.

Long inhale.... long and satisfied exhale. Smells a little nicer and a little fresher around here.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak »

mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm ...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
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Last edited by cloak on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by cloak »

Mach1 wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:22 pm Of all the OTS hires, hearing of your departure has made me the happiest.

Long inhale.... long and satisfied exhale. Smells a little nicer and a little fresher around here.
Do you honestly believe that the problem was the OTS pilots and life at WestJet was and is problem free before and after them?!
Anger, worse yet misplaced anger, is of no use, neither is bullying. Perhaps time for moving forward, mending relationships and building bridges.
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Last edited by cloak on Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
mbav8r
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r »

cloak wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm ...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
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Rezy
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Rezy »

cloak wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:46 pm It's really pathetic and immature how some keep going on about this. Theirs is the example of a team that is so focused on who they perceive as a "Maradona" (few direct-hire pilots) that they have lost focus on important issues and conceded 6 or 7 goals without even turning around to notice it!!
Conceded 6 or 7 goals? How could you possibly know that? There isn’t a contract in place yet! So you are just posturing. ALPA is laser focused on the formal arbitration arguments coming up in early December and there haven’t been any concecessions.
Scope is by far the most important part of a contract and ALPA protected it for all WJ pilots.
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tbaylx
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx »

mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.

The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
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tbaylx
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx »

Mach1 wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:22 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Of all the OTS hires, hearing of your departure has made me the happiest.

Long inhale.... long and satisfied exhale. Smells a little nicer and a little fresher around here.
I'm glad we're both happier for it. Good luck with the steaming pile of freshness you've made there.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by George Taylor »

[/quote]

I'm glad we're both happier for it. Good luck with the steaming pile of freshness you've made there.

[/quote]

That steaming pile just got one turd smaller since your departure. Good riddance Tbag.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Mrbobmarly111 »

So funny. Everyone is mad at the Swoop peeps for taking these low paying jobs and "screwing" over the industry. But what did westjet pilots get in the end? The right to go and fly at swoop for the current swoop rates.... lol. What a joke. Let me get this straight.. westjet pilots were mad ots hires accepted flying for crap pay... then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay.... help me understand how that is winning? Plus now that its been decided by a judge westjet will just move more flying to swoop. Clap clap clap. I dont blame the swoop guy for going there. And i definitely dont blame them for leaving..... now excuse me, my thermos is empty and i need more koolaid. :rolleyes:
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Lightchop »

Ironic since Westjet started as a low paying job "screwing" the industry. Hell, most would argue they are still low paying with no real pension to boot.

Pot calling the kettle black? :rolleyes:
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Lightchop »

cloak wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm ...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
But NO no no... they were HELPING the future generations by lowering the pay. Don't you SEE!??

:roll:
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Lightchop »

mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm
cloak wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm ...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
Oh I see you are one of those "You had a choice" Captains. Well, glad I don't have to fly with you.
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mbav8r
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r »

Lightchop wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:22 am
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm
cloak wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
Oh I see you are one of those "You had a choice" Captains. Well, glad I don't have to fly with you.
Did you or did you not have a choice?
Seriously, blaming me for your choice is beyond ridiculous, if the pay on offer was the same when I started, I would’ve stayed put in a 704 captain spot, life’s about choices and I’ll second that I’m glad I don’t fly with you either. The chip on your shoulder and reek of entitlement would be obvious.
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mbav8r
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by mbav8r »

tbaylx wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:18 am
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm

There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.

The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
You could see in another thread I agree the system is broken and Jazz ALPA has taken a step towards fixing it, WJ pilots also took a step towards fixing it by demanding Encore pilots be on their list by DOH, you undermined that progress by your greed and make it worse with your attitude.
Flair was started to bust the union at KFC, if you’ve been around since the 90s, you would know that.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by lostaviator »

tbaylx wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:18 am
mbav8r wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:05 pm

There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.

I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.

All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.

The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
It is not a broken system; it is a fair system. You really think you should be able to bounce around companies, displacing long serving employees from jobs because you felt like a switch?

If all that experience is so valuable, how come you had to take a job at a start-up with known labour unrest along with a bunch of others who were considered unemployable by other majors and/or career first officers?
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