China_CAAC's Merged Threads

[DropTanks]

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[J Roc]

I was right. Everyone else (who disputed my findings) was wrong.

Didn't you also present "findings" that common employer status would never happen?

At best, John, you get a blue ribbon for participating.

The ball's still in play, sir. Love your confidence though...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8RF2So2D8

[Bede]

Ghandi,

It's time to go on another salt march. Encore guys just got an email to bid on the remaining swoop positions as well as WJ ground schools.

How about you start working with your colleagues instead of trying to sabotage the rest of us.

[RidersRule]

Ghandi,

It's time to go on another salt march. Encore guys just got an email to bid on the remaining swoop positions as well as WJ ground schools.

How about you start working with your colleagues instead of trying to sabotage the rest of us.

You mean the list isn’t dead. Shocker.

[B757FO]

Ghandi,

It's time to go on another salt march. Encore guys just got an email to bid on the remaining swoop positions as well as WJ ground schools.

How about you start working with your colleagues instead of trying to sabotage the rest of us.

Awesome news... this is all playing out the way it should be along with all the positions now being filled internally from westjet.

[J Roc]

What about all the "findings" that ALPA would kill the list? I don't know guys!? Check your facts - John had "findings"!

[jjj]

The bypass positions have been awarded and the newly announced Captain positions at Swoop have been filled internally. New FO vacancies will be filled by Encore.

Lots of talented people to keep you company Tbaylx. The original OTS pilots who undercut us will be outnumbered by the fall. Your island is shrinking. Enjoy “life by the numbers” or so the saying goes. Seniority will keep the original OTS guys wedged into a hole. I give it six months before they become the biggest cry babies in the company.

Fly safely everyone.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

So are the current WJ pilots going to be flying Swoop for lower wages as management had intended, or is that still under negotiation?

[sstaurus]

Ghandi,

It's time to go on another salt march. Encore guys just got an email to bid on the remaining swoop positions as well as WJ ground schools.

How about you start working with your colleagues instead of trying to sabotage the rest of us.

Awesome news... this is all playing out the way it should be along with all the positions now being filled internally from westjet.

I don't get it... where's the win, it's still substandard wages and conditions like management wants, is it just because alpa will represent? So there's the possibility of better many years from now? Yes I know it's still under negotiations, but does anyone believe it won't remain a b-scale?

[cloak]

I don't get it... where's the win, it's still substandard wages and conditions like management wants, is it just because alpa will represent? So there's the possibility of better many years from now? Yes I know it's still under negotiations, but does anyone believe it won't remain a b-scale?

It seems that WestJet pilots had a mandate to strike but instead they made this deal so they must consider it a "win".
Strange that some are still so sour and antagonizing. To be fair, not sure if they are from WestJet, but perhaps some misplaced anger?!

[B757FO]

I can assure you it’s not considered a win. This is damage control. Remember we had an agreement that clearly stated westjet flying done by westjet pilots. Totally ignored by management. Then we get job postings going public to OTS. Another non agreed to and a union circumventing action plan. Now fast forward and we picked up some pilots who say “hey we applied for jobs you didn’t want” not true. But we couldn’t bid. Again not a win. Fast forward now. We have finished the bid and are paying bypass pay? A win? No. But a mitigation tactic from Kaplan. He wasn’t gonna let the company not launch swoop on time. No way. So lets have the 26 do it he says. However there is now two big catches with that. One is bypass pay. Two is the fact that September will see the very likely scenario of the current 26 being placed in the right seat at swoop while senior pilots to them fill their roles. A win? No just more damage control. What people fail to realize that this was a agreed to contract article westjet pilots doing westjet flying. Then circumvents a union and thinks it’s all is fine. Even if this does get written the 26 are not gonna lose their jobs, but they will end up in the right seat. A win? No again. They shouldn’t have been put in that place in the first place. This is a massive mess now caused by wj and now not only are 2000 pilots affected.. everyone is.

Be careful about throwing rocks at (us) westjet pilots. History doesn’t need to look far to remember how rouge was formed. We are at the mercy of Kaplan and the government. It’s not a win. I’m as frustrated as anyone how this happened. Alpa has to make a decision and they did. That’s why we elected them. I believe in what their doing. Westjet in September is going to learn they are not above the labour laws of Canada.

This is a total f’ng mess now and we are holding the bag. Not a win.

If we get forced a sub standard contract from Kaplan what exactly will the air canada staff be looking to do in there next negotiations?

It’s a total mess. And no one is wining. Sad thing is no one can guarantee anything. Not us not swoop pilots not one can.

Guess we need to all bbq all summer and wait and see what September brings as it’s clear westjet doesn’t want to negotiate anytime soon.

[Noo]

It didn't make any sense to fire the Swoop pilots. Not from a company perspective or ethically from a pilot perspective. It wasn't the right thing to do. I'll drink a 26er for you.

[IKEA_Monkey]

It's a goddamn mess alright. Company takes the most efficient pilot group in North America and turns against them. An arbitrated contract will reward its members just enough to keep other labour groups from following suit (ie not that much). I think the company (BOD & executives) got lucky here by skirting the lockout/strike action yet it doesn't appear that they have changed their tone since averting complete disaster. Going forward, I imagine they'll keep treating pilots in the same petulant manner. We won't witness a sea change of difference until CBA #2 which will be hammered out during an actual strike. That's my armchair prediction at this point.

[tbaylx]

The bypass positions have been awarded and the newly announced Captain positions at Swoop have been filled internally. New FO vacancies will be filled by Encore.

Lots of talented people to keep you company Tbaylx. The original OTS pilots who undercut us will be outnumbered by the fall. Your island is shrinking. Enjoy “life by the numbers” or so the saying goes. Seniority will keep the original OTS guys wedged into a hole. I give it six months before they become the biggest cry babies in the company.

Fly safely everyone.

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737. I can't speak for everyone but I'm personally not fussed where I sit on the whole seniority ladder, especially since we don't really bid on anything currently and likely when we do it will be some form of socialized bidding.
I don't see much point in being negative and crying about work, you either like/accept it or you fix it or you move on. Whinging endlessly won't get you far.

[eyebrow737]

The bypass positions have been awarded and the newly announced Captain positions at Swoop have been filled internally. New FO vacancies will be filled by Encore.

Lots of talented people to keep you company Tbaylx. The original OTS pilots who undercut us will be outnumbered by the fall. Your island is shrinking. Enjoy “life by the numbers” or so the saying goes. Seniority will keep the original OTS guys wedged into a hole. I give it six months before they become the biggest cry babies in the company.

Fly safely everyone.

Still at it jjj? I doubt that they will surpass some of you as the biggest cry babies and whiners. Your company is a mess, you have been screwed over by you management and union and yet you continue on.

Still haven't looked in that mirror as to where some of the blame may lie, yet have you?

[B757FO]

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737. I can't speak for everyone but I'm personally not fussed where I sit on the whole seniority ladder, especially since we don't really bid on anything currently and likely when we do it will be some form of socialized bidding.
I don't see much point in being negative and crying about work, you either like/accept it or you fix it or you move on. Whinging endlessly won't get you far.

So I have some questions then....

If it doesn’t matter will it in September? Are you certain you will get to keep your left seat? If so why did the arbitrator add the option to do otherwise in the decision. Your seniority could land you right seat swoop or right seat encore. Maybe it could land you left seat swoop if no one bids it. Don’t you agree?

What was the answer at your ceo meeting last weekend when the question of position security was raised? What did the ceo tell you? Did he guarantee it? No of course he didn’t. He can’t.

Will you be complaining or whining if you get sent to the right seat? Or crying as you suggest? Will you file a grievance to Alpa about it?

You again are speaking like you are in a position of authority or one of which you feel you are untouchable and locked in your seat. Do you deny the fact you could be sent to right seat? I’ll accept the fact that if Kaplan says you stay in your seat you stay in your seat. I won’t bitch or cry. I’ll accept it. Again if Kaplan was certain of you keeping the position why didn’t he do it in the order? Because he needs time to figure out what to do with you guys.

I’ve moved past personal hatred towards you guys because like you said the positions became available to ots and you took them. I blame all parties in this mess. We literally have done a big circle and ended up here.

If you can hold the seat with your seniority then I’ll welcome it with open arms.

Don’t you agree with that ? Goes both ways?

[Donald]

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737.

Hahahaha.....you are getting FO's that have never held a 705 capt seat as initial upgrades at Swoop.

Good luck, especially with a certain one who was awarded YHM CA.

[J Roc]

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737.

Hahahaha.....you are getting FO's that have never held a 705 capt seat as initial upgrades at Swoop.

Good luck, especially with a certain one who was awarded YHM CA.

This "certain one" you speak of will have to make it through the WJ upgrade. Our upgrade process will "weed out all non-hackers, who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps".

WJ trainers are the best - this "certain one" won't find the forth bar waiting for him/her at the gate.

*edit* I'm assuming WJ training department will do the swoop upgrades now - given the common employer status. However, I'm not 100% sure...

[tbaylx]

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737. I can't speak for everyone but I'm personally not fussed where I sit on the whole seniority ladder, especially since we don't really bid on anything currently and likely when we do it will be some form of socialized bidding.
I don't see much point in being negative and crying about work, you either like/accept it or you fix it or you move on. Whinging endlessly won't get you far.

So I have some questions then....

If it doesn’t matter will it in September? Are you certain you will get to keep your left seat? If so why did the arbitrator add the option to do otherwise in the decision. Your seniority could land you right seat swoop or right seat encore. Maybe it could land you left seat swoop if no one bids it. Don’t you agree?

What was the answer at your ceo meeting last weekend when the question of position security was raised? What did the ceo tell you? Did he guarantee it? No of course he didn’t. He can’t.

Will you be complaining or whining if you get sent to the right seat? Or crying as you suggest? Will you file a grievance to Alpa about it?

You again are speaking like you are in a position of authority or one of which you feel you are untouchable and locked in your seat. Do you deny the fact you could be sent to right seat? I’ll accept the fact that if Kaplan says you stay in your seat you stay in your seat. I won’t bitch or cry. I’ll accept it. Again if Kaplan was certain of you keeping the position why didn’t he do it in the order? Because he needs time to figure out what to do with you guys.

I’ve moved past personal hatred towards you guys because like you said the positions became available to ots and you took them. I blame all parties in this mess. We literally have done a big circle and ended up here.

If you can hold the seat with your seniority then I’ll welcome it with open arms.

Don’t you agree with that ? Goes both ways?

I am absolutely not certain that i'll keep the position come September, and no one can guarantee that, certainly not our CEO, nor has he. Since we chose not to certify ourselves early on we now find ourselves represented by ALPA and on the seniority list. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't grieve it and even if I could I'm not very confident in "our" MEC representing my interests given everything I've seen here on this forum and elsewhere.

It's going to be up to the arbitrator how that plays out so I'll not worry too much about it and see what comes in the fall. I personally don't think it's likely that he will reverse his current position, but it's certainly quite possible. If I find myself in the right seat then I'll have a look at the terms and conditions that come with the position and make my decision on what I'll do then. In the meantime I'm not losing any sleep over it and am going to enjoy working with an exciting new startup and deal with the challenges that come with that.

Just a heads up, you may want to tell your guys on your internal forum who aren't over it that flipping the bird to a Swoop pilot as he taxis by may not be the best career move. You never know who might be operating that aircraft, it could be a chief pilot, DFO or other upper management who may not take kindly to that sort of thing. Be pissed off if you want but try and keep it professional. No one wants to see someone lose a job or get made an example of. Same thing for personal social media accounts.

[tbaylx]

Happy to hear that we'll be getting some experienced guys as new captains. We can use the help and it will make the training and the upgrades much easier if we have guys that know the operation and the 737.

Hahahaha.....you are getting FO's that have never held a 705 capt seat as initial upgrades at Swoop.

Good luck, especially with a certain one who was awarded YHM CA.

This "certain one" you speak of will have to make it through the WJ upgrade. Our upgrade process will "weed out all non-hackers, who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps".

WJ trainers are the best - this "certain one" won't find the forth bar waiting for him/her at the gate.

*edit* I'm assuming WJ training department will do the swoop upgrades now - given the common employer status. However, I'm not 100% sure...

We're all aware of the extra scrutiny on the airline as a start up and given the background noise. Transport Canada has been doing all the PPC's to date. Anyone who passed met the PPC standard. Anyone not capable of being in the left seat after passing a PPC will be weeded out during line indoc, same as they would be at mainline or any other 705 operator.