New Arbitrated Contract

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Hozer
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New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Hozer » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:42 pm

25BED0C6-19EA-4FD1-A895-5123EE78EC58.jpeg
25BED0C6-19EA-4FD1-A895-5123EE78EC58.jpeg (1.83 MiB) Viewed 5537 times

Didn’t think I would ever need to update this again. I think AC hiring website might crash for the next while
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IKEA_Monkey
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by IKEA_Monkey » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:46 pm

Do you hear that?


That's the sound of 500+ Encore pilots applying to AC.
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Hozer
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Hozer » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:21 pm

I’m an FO at WJ. Im pretty sure it will 500+ WJ pilots working on their CVs.
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bob99
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by bob99 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:26 pm

The Encore pilots already had their resumes at AC.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:29 pm

Is the WJ contract that bad? Any details available?
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daedalusx
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by daedalusx » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:48 pm

Reserve and Swoop B scale would be my guess... Or is it worse?

Unsurprisingly, the old trick of posting a quarter loss during arbitration worked again...
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

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skybaron
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by skybaron » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:02 pm

:shock:
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Last edited by skybaron on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skybaron
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by skybaron » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:02 pm

Hozer wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:21 pm
I’m an FO at WJ. Im pretty sure it will 500+ WJ pilots working on their CVs.
Guaranteed. You’re not alone my friend.

Big Red and others will welcome your talent pool. Trust me.

From what was forwarded to me, it looks like your B scale will soon be the top scale for all aspiring mainline upgrades, and flow through program from Encore. Make no mistake, growth at mainline will cease, and will now be centred around Swoop with their 30 or so aircraft. Mainline 787 will be a slow go, and only those most senior will reap any reward.

As I mentioned in one of China Dicks posts - WJ is now a stepping stone company. Good luck with this “culture thing” BS that management has bragged about for decades. Good for the sewer.

Let the mass exodus begin. God help the WestJet Group - especially, Encore - entice new applications.

This IS A DARK DAY for Canadian Aviation.
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Last edited by skybaron on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skybaron
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by skybaron » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:29 pm

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Boreas
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Boreas » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Woulda coulda shoulda striked.

This "B scale" will reverberate throughout the rest of the industry soon enough...
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daedalusx
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by daedalusx » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:48 pm

I've noticed the amount of hours required to go swoop or mainline is now 1500... Seems like only a few years ago you needed 3000+ hrs just to go to encore and it was next to impossible to get to mainline WJ without 705 or jet time .... Now WJ is just another Jazz - just a step up to go somewhere else (ie Air Canada or SWG)... And just like Jazz, the min experience required will only get lower and lower.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

CanadianEh
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by CanadianEh » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:52 pm

Why specifically Encore? Is the one list not being preserved?
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Transonic
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Transonic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:23 am

The whole point of the one list/flow through is mute now that the end goal is Flair 737 wages.
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aerodude
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by aerodude » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:38 am

I think a lot ACPA guys/gals just reversed their opinion on merging with ALPA.....
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ant_321
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by ant_321 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:10 am

Any actual details? So b scale for everyone or just for swoop?
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ZBBYLW
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by ZBBYLW » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:50 am

aerodude wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:38 am
I think a lot ACPA guys/gals just reversed their opinion on merging with ALPA.....
Yes and no. It does seem that in hindsight going for the strike may have made sense and the arbitration seemed to have been a bad choice. Don't underestimate the dissatisfaction with ACPA leadership though. The YYZ LEC seems it wants to take a harder stance in the new year, lets hope that plays out.

Anyhow, getting everyone on the same page and hopefully allow positive pattern barganing (not this crap, with Swoop earning less than DH8 wages) In think would further our agenda.

Anyhow this thread is about WS. Looks like another group in the country can start saying "we will get them next time". Very disappointed.
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Alpa Male
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Alpa Male » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:38 am

https://ca.reuters.com/article/business ... E25L-OCABS

Saretsky said he expected the first pilot contract to be “cost-neutral,” in terms of salaries and benefits, adding, “I’m not expecting there to be any sizeable impact ... because we were paying our pilots very well.”

“It’s going to take a long time,” CEO Gregg Saretsky told a Toronto transportation conference. “It is unlikely that there will be an agreement in 2018.”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Hahahaha. Well, I guess ol' triple G wasn't that crazy after all.
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Alpa Male
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Alpa Male » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:46 am

Oh, the irony! I'm sitting here recalling all the conversations that I've had over the past few years, with all 20-something-year-olds FO's, "educating" me on proper WAWCON and what ALPA was going to deliver. Telling me that we're on course for a 40% pay hike and lots of goodies. Pulling up their "buddies" pay stubs at AC and reciting DELTA contract language at will. Such convincing little buggers, I'll give them that. Smug, but very convincing. Well, maybe those crusty old senior pilots weren't so batshit crazy after all - "Careful what you wish for...hmmmmmmmm." Ring a bell???

Don't get me wrong; I wasn't a big fan of the WJPA. It was corrupt and outdated. I'll take ALPA's structure and resources any day, but ALPA certainly have not demonstrated negotiating dominance, that's for sure. ALPA hasn't delivered anything that the WJPA couldn't. Except for reserve; the WJPA couldn't achieve that! :lol:
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Hangry
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Hangry » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:49 am

2 unanswered posts back to back. Sure John, this isn't you. :roll: :lol:
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by altiplano » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:58 am

It's typically very difficult to make big gains in arbitration, esp. a first contract. But now that it's in place it's something to build on. Certainly better than working without a contract and executives having their way at their whim. IMO it's important for your membership to follow the contract, and hold the company to every line as well.

What is the term of the deal?

Did you establish any duty rigs?

Scope?

Were 787 rates established?
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Alpa Male
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Alpa Male » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:12 am

Hangry wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:49 am
2 unanswered posts back to back. Sure John, this isn't you. :roll: :lol:
Oh boy, that didn't take long - enter the marginalizing character assassinations, that will soothe your hurt feelings and bruised egos. :roll: :lol:
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citizenbanana
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by citizenbanana » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:21 am

Is there a B scale for Westjet new hires or for Swoop new hires and flows? Do all of the encore flow throughs go to swoop first?
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brooks
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by brooks » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:34 am

I don't think it will cause some mass exodus like the kids above are talking about. Remember Encore still has to ratify their own collective agreement. There are a lot of pros in this deal that I am pretty sure the new guys at AC wish they had.
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Hangry
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Hangry » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:40 am

brooks wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:34 am
I don't think it will cause some mass exodus like the kids above are talking about. Remember Encore still has to ratify their own collective agreement. There are a lot of pros in this deal that I am pretty sure the new guys at AC wish they had.
Vacation credit looks ok. Socialized bidding perhaps.... although it’s very short sighted. Other than aspiring to earn Flair wages at Swoop what do AC guys/girls wish they had?
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Alpa Male
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Re: New Arbitrated Contract

Post by Alpa Male » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:45 am

Hangry wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:40 am
Other than aspiring to earn Flair wages at Swoop what do AC guys/girls wish they had?
An ALPA folder on their EFB's. :lol:
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