Grooming Update

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Dyna
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Dyna »

aerobod wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm
C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:07 am Yeah the pilots and FA's can go mingle with a coffee or just rest their eyes/ feet for the FA's while 2-3 ground hands clean the plane like a normal transcontinental airline. This isn't a beaver or Navajo which I happily tidy up as a pilot. It's a (soon to be) Dreamliner. Don't sell the pilots the "it's to save our snappy start up company some money" line.
Grooming by the crew or employees on travel privileges or business has never been done on the 767s, nor terminating flights or the longest 737 flights, the 787s won't be, either.

Not entirely true. Longest 737 flights? Nope. I’ve flown Cancun-Vancouver, 6.5+ and got the “employee groom accompanied by lav/vac groom ACARS message. Same after a red eye, which is suppose to be full groom as well.

But times, they are a changin’.
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aerobod
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by aerobod »

Dyna wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:15 pm
aerobod wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm
C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:07 am Yeah the pilots and FA's can go mingle with a coffee or just rest their eyes/ feet for the FA's while 2-3 ground hands clean the plane like a normal transcontinental airline. This isn't a beaver or Navajo which I happily tidy up as a pilot. It's a (soon to be) Dreamliner. Don't sell the pilots the "it's to save our snappy start up company some money" line.
Grooming by the crew or employees on travel privileges or business has never been done on the 767s, nor terminating flights or the longest 737 flights, the 787s won't be, either.

Not entirely true. Longest 737 flights? Nope. I’ve flown Cancun-Vancouver, 6.5+ and got the “employee groom accompanied by lav/vac groom ACARS message. Same after a red eye, which is suppose to be full groom as well.

But times, they are a changin’.
There are always exceptions due to specific circumstances, late flight arrival, grooming crew not in place when they should be, etc. Transatlantic east-bound 737 flights are not employee groomed and there are others too, but I’m not sure which flights are on the definitive list, other than it applies to many long 737 flights.
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Blue42
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Blue42 »

aerobod wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:58 pm
Dyna wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:15 pm
aerobod wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm
Grooming by the crew or employees on travel privileges or business has never been done on the 767s, nor terminating flights or the longest 737 flights, the 787s won't be, either.

Not entirely true. Longest 737 flights? Nope. I’ve flown Cancun-Vancouver, 6.5+ and got the “employee groom accompanied by lav/vac groom ACARS message. Same after a red eye, which is suppose to be full groom as well.

But times, they are a changin’.
There are always exceptions due to specific circumstances, late flight arrival, grooming crew not in place when they should be, etc. Transatlantic east-bound 737 flights are not employee groomed and there are others too, but I’m not sure which flights are on the definitive list, other than it applies to many long 737 flights.
It’s usually the redeye flying from Hawaii and over the Europe that is not employee groom.
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yvrpilot82
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by yvrpilot82 »

The CUPE memo was pretty clear. Asking the pilots to not help groom for free, as when it comes to their own negotiations they'll expect the same from them. It's just a shame they get thrown under the bus for the foreseeable.
Unfortunately it'll be the PAX that suffer, through either dirty cabins or delays. There's still no communication from management on this. I think they were hoping the pilots would continue grooming out of guilt for the FAs.
With all the hundreds of destroyed career plans I'd imagine morale is far too low to be cleaning up garbage voluntarily anymore.
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Lightchop
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Lightchop »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:30 pm The CUPE memo was pretty clear. Asking the pilots to not help groom for free, as when it comes to their own negotiations they'll expect the same from them. It's just a shame they get thrown under the bus for the foreseeable.
Unfortunately it'll be the PAX that suffer, through either dirty cabins or delays. There's still no communication from management on this. I think they were hoping the pilots would continue grooming out of guilt for the FAs.
With all the hundreds of destroyed career plans I'd imagine morale is far too low to be cleaning up garbage voluntarily anymore.
They can always come work at Jazz. Nice 17 year career path laid out for them. :lol:

Plus we have groomers.

And a cool hat.
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KAG
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by KAG »

Oh that hat...it was my favorite uniform piece lol
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lostaviator
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by lostaviator »

This situation is going to get FA’s in more trouble then pilots. By refusing to groom, they are violating their roles and responsibilities outlined in their regulatory documents; pilots are not.
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complexintentions
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by complexintentions »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:30 pm The CUPE memo was pretty clear. Asking the pilots to not help groom for free, as when it comes to their own negotiations they'll expect the same from them. It's just a shame they get thrown under the bus for the foreseeable.
Unfortunately it'll be the PAX that suffer, through either dirty cabins or delays. There's still no communication from management on this. I think they were hoping the pilots would continue grooming out of guilt for the FAs.
With all the hundreds of destroyed career plans I'd imagine morale is far too low to be cleaning up garbage voluntarily anymore.
Could you elaborate on the "hundreds of destroyed career plans"?
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yvrpilot82
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by yvrpilot82 »

Complex,

Perhaps some hyperbole and poetic license. But a lot of unhappy FOs who've waited 8+ years for an upgrade to see those left seats go to Swoop for 60 cents on the dollar.
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Hudson90
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Hudson90 »

[quote=complexintentions post_id=1066560 time=15

Could you elaborate on the "hundreds of destroyed career plans"?
[/quote]

Com’on EDITED! No Doxing, please!Stop being a troll! You know better than that. Let them vent! It's been a long dragged out process with great dissipointment. With your experience, maybe show a little compassion.
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Shady McSly
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Shady McSly »

Perhaps some hyperbole and poetic license
..throw in a dash of editorial and you got yourself a bowl of fake news.
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complexintentions
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by complexintentions »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:13 pm Complex,

Perhaps some hyperbole and poetic license. But a lot of unhappy FOs who've waited 8+ years for an upgrade to see those left seats go to Swoop for 60 cents on the dollar.
Well, ok. No doubt disappointing, but hardly unusual in the industry.

There are lots of options for faster paths to a left seat and more money, if that's all one wants. Just might not be at Westjet, or it may take longer there now. The speed of upgrades has always varied wildly depending on tons of factors beyond anyone's control. Low-cost divisions are the future, unfortunately.

But ultimately a company's purpose is to make money. I sometimes get the sense a lot of pilots - especially those who got into the industry when things were moving quickly - seem to believe airlines exist to serve their career and financial goals.
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by Legacy »

complexintentions wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:53 am
yvrpilot82 wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:13 pm Complex,

Perhaps some hyperbole and poetic license. But a lot of unhappy FOs who've waited 8+ years for an upgrade to see those left seats go to Swoop for 60 cents on the dollar.
But ultimately a company's purpose is to make money. I sometimes get the sense a lot of pilots - especially those who got into the industry when things were moving quickly - seem to believe airlines exist to serve their career and financial goals.
True, but the problem is most companies lose sight as to who is actually making them money and take the employees for granted.
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jjj
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by jjj »

Complexintentions,

I think pilots have the expectation that their employers uphold the deal they agreed too.

They're not snotty or entitled - they're tired of the goal posts getting moved again.

JJJ
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complexintentions
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Re: Grooming Update

Post by complexintentions »

I was referring to pilot’s expectations of career progression. As long as a company acts legally, they have every right to do what they think is best for company profitability and viability. Obviously, this could impact employee aspirations. Sometimes goalposts have to be moved when the game changes.

So while I understand the disappointment at not being able to get ahead as quickly as hoped, it IS entitlement to think that it is a right. There is no “deal” made that guarantees one will get their upgrade when one thinks they will.
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