OTS WesJet Mainline FO

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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

seriousflyer wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 pm No. If the resolution passes, all encore pilots hired before May 14, 2019, their senirority is made whole. Maintaining seniority start date on the westjet pilot senirorty list. Pilots after May 14, start to accrue more senirorty than new hires at encore.
That won't bode well with the hundred or so pilots that were hired so far since May 14th.
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seriousflyer
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by seriousflyer »

I agree. Those pilots hired at encore after may 14, although not all would be fully 100% aware of the politics, would of atleast known the result of the vote may 14, that is the argument from the people who are trying to pass resolution.
Either way - all pilots hired at either airline are considered to be super junior. If your OTS hire at mainline your behind 2100, if your hired at encore your behind 2100 pilots. Westjet grew only from the bottom and retired very very very few from the top.

If the resolution passes, encore will form their own senirority and there will be lifers start to develop. In 15 years encore will have their own developped CBA and wages and working conditions that would be considered a good living.
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kiaszceski
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by kiaszceski »

What profits would westjet mainline pilots have to pass the resolution? I mean the majority of them.
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seriousflyer
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by seriousflyer »

It's hard to say. To answer your question. They would profit indirectly. Which isnt s monetary amount that can be seen or touched by anyone pilot.

What I mean by that, is that the company would be able to recruit and raise morale which has an impact on profitability and health of the airline. Which is an indirect profit to pilot salary.

However if a mainline pilot is looking for after tax dollars in their pocket on the 15th and 30th of every month, or profit for voting yes to one list, then, the pilots will have to take the one list away from may 14th (resolution), and see how much the company is willing to pay for it, I belive that is the angle.
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Ex DC10 Driver
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by Ex DC10 Driver »

The majority of morale at WestJet is not directly tied to the one list, actually morale could improve without the one list. Junior jet pilots morale improves dramatically without the one list as they are no longer under 100 to 500 Encore pilots who would have flowed over to mainline ahead of them. The Encore morale drops because they were hoping to keep their position on the one list along with all their new improvements from their CBA. Encore now has a new CBA with improved pay and working conditions. Additionally when an Encore Pilot now flows to mainline even at the bottom of the list they get their pay topped up by I believe $28,000.00 over two years to help offset their pay reduction when they come over. The one list only benefits mainline pilots if it is reworded and approved by a vote so that it allows true bumping downward in the event of reduction bidding which is a real possibility. It was voted down because it only benefited Encore pilots coming over and did nothing for mainline pilots.
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DropTanks
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by DropTanks »

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
kiaszceski
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by kiaszceski »

DropTanks wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:04 pm
fish4life wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:26 pm
moe wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:53 am I’m still anxious that the corp will find a loophole to wriggle out of YOS.
How would they find a loophole? Wasn’t it part of the contract?
We have a few items that are written clear as day that the Corp simply ignores or reads differently. Somebody at the crystal palace has decided to quite simply screw the pilots just a little more. They’re going to arbitration because of it. As a result people feel nervous about the YOS being enacted Jan 1.
What’s the point of screwing the pilots? I mean how do they want to expand as an international carrier by losing pilots again and again?
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pacman007
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by pacman007 »

kiaszceski wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:07 am
DropTanks wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:04 pm
fish4life wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:26 pm

How would they find a loophole? Wasn’t it part of the contract?
We have a few items that are written clear as day that the Corp simply ignores or reads differently. Somebody at the crystal palace has decided to quite simply screw the pilots just a little more. They’re going to arbitration because of it. As a result people feel nervous about the YOS being enacted Jan 1.
What’s the point of screwing the pilots? I mean how do they want to expand as an international carrier by losing pilots again and again?
International expansion at WestJet doesn’t mean more pilots, I think that’s the misunderstanding on this forum. As WestJet brings on 787s more of the 737s will go to swoop, encore will expand and link will expand! So yes WestJet main line will have 20-30 wide bodies in the next 10 years but will still have the same amount of pilots due to most of the domestic capacity going to encore( maybe jets at encore?). And 30 tails at swoop. That’s my opinion anyway
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

pacman007 wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:39 am And 30 tails at swoop.
That's only if they can stop getting themselves in the news for the stupidest of reasons.
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jjj
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by jjj »

One thing your average Encore pilot won’t tell you is that during their interview they were asked if they understood the “One List?”

They were also made to understand that the list was nothing more than a handshake and was not enshrined in anything. It was also made clear that it could go away.

Long story short. The passage through Encore was always a gamble.

I don’t feel bad for the guys that bypassed their flow opportunity.

I really don’t feel bad for the guys that intended to bypass their flow opportunities for years thinking they could glide right into a Captain’s job one day WS.

Who’s to blame in all this? I submit it’s the company that wouldn’t include the same attributes of the One List in the CBA.

Why wouldn’t they include a bump and flush just like the “One List” had?

The answer is that it’s easy to agree to anything in a document that never has to be honoured.

Best of luck to all at Encore.

I understand the low morale for somebody that put in a little time at Encore and didn’t get the same treatment as someone hired just a few months prior.

If I run into an Encore Pilot that doesn’t even have an ATPL and is suffering from low morale - I’ll probably puke or just hand out a soother.

JJJ
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Biff
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by Biff »

jjj wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:59 pm One thing your average Encore pilot won’t tell you is that during their interview they were asked if they understood the “One List?”

They were also made to understand that the list was nothing more than a handshake and was not enshrined in anything. It was also made clear that it could go away.

Long story short. The passage through Encore was always a gamble.

I don’t feel bad for the guys that bypassed their flow opportunity.

I really don’t feel bad for the guys that intended to bypass their flow opportunities for years thinking they could glide right into a Captain’s job one day WS.

Who’s to blame in all this? I submit it’s the company that wouldn’t include the same attributes of the One List in the CBA.

Why wouldn’t they include a bump and flush just like the “One List” had?

The answer is that it’s easy to agree to anything in a document that never has to be honoured.

Best of luck to all at Encore.

I understand the low morale for somebody that put in a little time at Encore and didn’t get the same treatment as someone hired just a few months prior.

If I run into an Encore Pilot that doesn’t even have an ATPL and is suffering from low morale - I’ll probably puke or just hand out a soother.

JJJ
There’s a pretty strong rumour out there that it wasn’t the company that insisted on the bump and flush being removed.

Evidently the CEO stated that to one of our crews when he was onboard.

Encore pilots should ask their MEC who was responsible for removing this. They might be surprised with the answer.
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WestJet Puke
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by WestJet Puke »

Biff wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:50 pm
There’s a pretty strong rumour out there that it wasn’t the company that insisted on the bump and flush being removed.

Evidently the CEO stated that to one of our crews when he was onboard.

Encore pilots should ask their MEC who was responsible for removing this. They might be surprised with the answer.
[/quote]


Step back from the suicidal ledge.

From a WS Pilot point-of-view......95% of us, myself included, welcome you here and wish you guys could all flow sooner. There are a few Boeing pilots who think otherwise and while I understand their arguments, all of us WJ pilots have put in the time in the industry, know what regional flying is like, have been in your shoes, appreciate your contributions to Team Teal, and want you guys to have a defined career path whereby a flow can be expected in a reasonable amount of time.

But please understand that if you are going to have the ability to flow here.....we also want the ability to flow there. And not that we are all intending to go - I don't think there is one pilot from WestJet since Encore's 2013 inception who has voluntarily gone there with the exception of your VP Flight Ops who has done so twice - but say another 9/11 happens, the company cuts 20 mainline 737s, and stops at 10 B787s (not picking up the 10 options which almost everyone believes will be exercised). Our guys want the option of flying a Q400 with Encore vs being on the street, going back up north to fly, or going overseas. We welcome you.....there are probably more than 200 Encore guys at WestJet now, how come you don't welcome us? The last LOA was a one-sided recruiting tool for the company, whereby it locked in your guys' ability to join our list and go upwards, with no safeguards for the existing Boeing pilots.

If you want to understand why the LOA was voted down in the spring, the above reason is exactly it. I am glad we have ALPA on the property and they have done some really good things for our group, but I was profoundly disappointed how they missed the pulse of the pilot group on that one. Hopefully they understand that now. Its not rocket science. No matter how you sugar coat it or what you say, the issue is not going to pass this pilot group until those terms are cleared up.
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by .80@410 »

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Last edited by .80@410 on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just callin it like it is.
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by .80@410 »

Even though I voted yes out of moral obligation.. this ^^^ is exactly it and very well said.

WJ can’t get a free recruiting tool without offering something in return. If bumping is gonna cost WJ money well sorry . You gotta pay to play.


Personally , going to encore now is a great stepping stone to AC. Nothing more.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

As much as the one list issue is tearing at me, I can't deny that I am loving working at Encore.
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flyinhigh
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Re: OTS WesJet Mainline FO

Post by flyinhigh »

jjj wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:59 pm One thing your average Encore pilot won’t tell you is that during their interview they were asked if they understood the “One List?”

They were also made to understand that the list was nothing more than a handshake and was not enshrined in anything. It was also made clear that it could go away.
MMM, sorry. I interviewed and worked at Encore for two years. When I did the interview I was told that there was a One List were everyone is a big happy family. I absolutely was NOT told that it could go away.
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