One List

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Checklist
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Re: One List

Post by Checklist » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:45 pm

lostaviator wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:10 pm
Hudson90 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:05 pm
Personally I don’t think a DFR or lawsuit will gain much traction. WJ owns Encore 100%. There is history of a one list between both groups despite the vote. It’s my understanding a DFR complaint was brought forward from the JAZZ pilots against their JAZZ MEC for allowing Georgian pilots to flow over to the JAZZ list DOH. Perhaps it’s still on going. Correct me if I’m wrong. My crashpad roommate is now on the JAZZ pilot seniority list with his original Air Georgian DOH. No Merger just a transfer. We maybe only a few steps away from hiring pilots with previous ALPA numbers to our list in the future with their previous DOH. Seems to be the way with ALPA Canada. Despite what’s going on in the USA.

This PTA vote was far from a “YES” slam dunk. It’s time to move on! Our vote will dictate our future.

Congratulations to my Encore friends. Hope you get here soon. I know this is a major victory for you all.

All the best.
I agree. I don't think the DFR will go anywhere. The union can never make decisions that 100% of pilots agree with, so a majority vote is the next best thing.
You say that with the confidence this was the only vote on the PTA.
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Hudson90
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Re: One List

Post by Hudson90 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:33 pm

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Last edited by Hudson90 on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

ahkhamza
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Re: One List

Post by ahkhamza » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:39 am

Congrats to Encore and WestJet Pilot group. To anyone who says this is not the industry standard. Well the industry standard is not the greatest and with the PTA voted in, we just set the NEW INDUSTRY STANDARD. Cheers! :smt040
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lostaviator
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Re: One List

Post by lostaviator » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:22 am

Checklist wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:45 pm
lostaviator wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:10 pm
Hudson90 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:05 pm
Personally I don’t think a DFR or lawsuit will gain much traction. WJ owns Encore 100%. There is history of a one list between both groups despite the vote. It’s my understanding a DFR complaint was brought forward from the JAZZ pilots against their JAZZ MEC for allowing Georgian pilots to flow over to the JAZZ list DOH. Perhaps it’s still on going. Correct me if I’m wrong. My crashpad roommate is now on the JAZZ pilot seniority list with his original Air Georgian DOH. No Merger just a transfer. We maybe only a few steps away from hiring pilots with previous ALPA numbers to our list in the future with their previous DOH. Seems to be the way with ALPA Canada. Despite what’s going on in the USA.

This PTA vote was far from a “YES” slam dunk. It’s time to move on! Our vote will dictate our future.

Congratulations to my Encore friends. Hope you get here soon. I know this is a major victory for you all.

All the best.
I agree. I don't think the DFR will go anywhere. The union can never make decisions that 100% of pilots agree with, so a majority vote is the next best thing.
You say that with the confidence this was the only vote on the PTA.
So you're saying that if there was a vote on a collective agreement (CA1) and it was voted down and then a successful vote on CA2, but I liked CA1 better I could file a DFR? I don't think so.

If the data says the majority of pilots supported the "one list" concept, I think they represented the group just fine. Yea, the options were shady but that was more ALPA's doing then the company's.
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Gear Jerker
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Re: One List

Post by Gear Jerker » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:16 pm

Just to clarify something I've seen incorrectly stated a few times about seniority before and after the PTA vote.

Before:

Pilot A hired at Encore, seniority number 2500, effective once they flow.
Pilot B hired at WestJet, seniority number 2501, effective immediately.

After:

Pilot A hired at Encore, seniority number 2500, effective once they flow.
Pilot B hired at WestJet, seniority number 2501, effective immediately.

In the event of a no vote and scrapping of the one list:

Pilot A hired at Encore, seniority number bumps down to the bottom of the list once they flow, even though they probably have 6000 hours and 2000 hours Q400 PIC wearing the same uniform and flying the same passengers when that day comes.
Pilot B hired at WestJet, suddenly jumps up a few hundred seniority spots.
Pilot C-Z150 hired at WestJet (however many OTS hires since the day they started at Encore), has 1500-2000 hours on a King Air or Metro, is ahead of the 6000 hour guy.

Point being, nothing actually changes with the PTA vote in terms of the function of departmental seniority; it's just that the existing practice is now hardened in a legally binding agreement between all 5 parties involved.

Without commenting on the merits of the existence of this practice, this is how it ACTUALLY works guys and gals.
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Re: One List

Post by FICU » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:00 pm

So how does this affect the Swoopers?
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Re: One List

Post by Tacoma » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:24 pm

BOTL.
FICU wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:00 pm
So how does this affect the Swoopers?
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Re: One List

Post by The Fish » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:52 pm

FICU wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:00 pm
So how does this affect the Swoopers?
Safe in current positions for now....
But with a reduction bid coming in the second half of 2020, likely bumped into the right seat till every qualified encore person turns down the left seat at swoop.
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Re: One List

Post by FICU » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:41 am

Ugly!
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Re: One List

Post by tps8903 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:55 am

Hangry wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:06 am
Encoretears.png

I guess a spoonful of sugar helped that medicine go down.
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Re: One List

Post by daedalusx » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:09 am

Well Flair is hiring DECs so maybe all those guys can do the sideway dance once again ...
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Re: One List

Post by CaptainHaddock » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:54 pm

The Fish wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:52 pm
FICU wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:00 pm
So how does this affect the Swoopers?
Safe in current positions for now....
But with a reduction bid coming in the second half of 2020, likely bumped into the right seat till every qualified encore person turns down the left seat at swoop.

Before we tee up any 2020 reduction bids we’ll have to see what Onex has planned. And Swoop WAWCON will be no different in 2020 (again, unless Onex chooses to address them). With WJ planning 250+ hires and AC still taking WJ guys regularly Encore guys can just flow right into mainline, unless they are masochistic, then go to Swoop.
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Re: One List

Post by DropTanks » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:22 pm

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One List

Post by DropTanks » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:26 pm

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One List

Post by plausiblyannonymous » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:41 am

DropTanks wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:26 pm
No Encore flow will ever take precedence over reinstatement rights.
As per the PTA, any recall will be done in accordance with the respective collective agreement.
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