One List

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Dh8Classic
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Re: One List

Post by Dh8Classic »

Due to a desire to change jobs back in late 2019, I thought I might start applying at WJ. The Onelist thing had fallen through. Seemed like a good place to work. Then all of a sudden, Onelist. Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.

It seems like the Encore guys were quite happy to do that. Now their willingness to do that has come back to bite them. If you had just been fair and accepted going through the process like everyone else instead of demanding that you get ahead, things would be different.

Don't take it personally, but it is a classic example of trying to unfairly get ahead while in their minds, theoretically accepting a risk that they never thought would happen.
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FlyingMonkey
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Re: One List

Post by FlyingMonkey »

Dh8Classic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:00 pm Due to a desire to change jobs back in late 2019, I thought I might start applying at WJ. The Onelist thing had fallen through. Seemed like a good place to work. Then all of a sudden, Onelist. Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.

It seems like the Encore guys were quite happy to do that. Now their willingness to do that has come back to bite them. If you had just been fair and accepted going through the process like everyone else instead of demanding that you get ahead, things would be different.

Don't take it personally, but it is a classic example of trying to unfairly get ahead while in their minds, theoretically accepting a risk that they never thought would happen.
Encore pilots had that seniority long before you came to join WJ. It was taken from us and when it returned, we got back what was ours in the first place. End of story...

You should have known that the one list was not dead when you accepted a job at WJ. It was never dead, just voted down initially. Immediately after it was voted down the WJ MEC and the company were in discussions to get it back.

You took a gamble coming OTS and it didn’t payoff.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: One List

Post by ALPApolicy »

FlyingMonkey wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:48 am
Dh8Classic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:00 pm Due to a desire to change jobs back in late 2019, I thought I might start applying at WJ. The Onelist thing had fallen through. Seemed like a good place to work. Then all of a sudden, Onelist. Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.

It seems like the Encore guys were quite happy to do that. Now their willingness to do that has come back to bite them. If you had just been fair and accepted going through the process like everyone else instead of demanding that you get ahead, things would be different.

Don't take it personally, but it is a classic example of trying to unfairly get ahead while in their minds, theoretically accepting a risk that they never thought would happen.
Encore pilots had that seniority long before you came to join WJ. It was taken from us and when it returned, we got back what was ours in the first place. End of story...

You should have known that the one list was not dead when you accepted a job at WJ. It was never dead, just voted down initially. Immediately after it was voted down the WJ MEC and the company were in discussions to get it back.

You took a gamble coming OTS and it didn’t payoff.
Just a clarification on the sequence of events, as I understand them. Perhaps a lawyer could chime in to clarify the exactness on what I say, but once the mainline pilots certified, they then had the right to negotiate their own seniority list as part of the negotiations towards a CBA. Once certification occurred, all previous employment agreements were null and void, with only a statutory freeze in place preventing altering of work terms for, and this is crucial, mainline pilots only. So the procedure where Encore pilots received super-seniority when they were hired at WestJet mainline was legally over at certification.

Through a series of gyrations, the PTA has renewed that scheme. But not for eternity. WestJet ALPA owns the seniority list, and WestJet administers it. WestJet pilots will always control their own seniority list and are free to negotiate changes to it in the future. Not saying they will, but they have that right.

In that sense, Encore pilots will always be gambling that the One List will be maintained.

I’m open to corrections on my interpretation.
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cloak
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Re: One List

Post by cloak »

FlyingMonkey wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:48 am
Dh8Classic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:00 pm Due to a desire to change jobs back in late 2019, I thought I might start applying at WJ. The Onelist thing had fallen through. Seemed like a good place to work. Then all of a sudden, Onelist. Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.

It seems like the Encore guys were quite happy to do that. Now their willingness to do that has come back to bite them. If you had just been fair and accepted going through the process like everyone else instead of demanding that you get ahead, things would be different.

Don't take it personally, but it is a classic example of trying to unfairly get ahead while in their minds, theoretically accepting a risk that they never thought would happen.
Encore pilots had that seniority long before you came to join WJ. It was taken from us and when it returned, we got back what was ours in the first place. End of story...

You should have known that the one list was not dead when you accepted a job at WJ. It was never dead, just voted down initially. Immediately after it was voted down the WJ MEC and the company were in discussions to get it back.

You took a gamble coming OTS and it didn’t payoff.
I believe you misunderstood! Dh8Classic was simply stating that the one list scheme eliminated his interest in joining WestJet because his seniority would be behind hundreds of others that weren't at the airline yet. I believe that sentiment was shared by many, especially more experience pilots. As it turns out, the one list did not have much benefit for any particular party. Encore pilots are subject to substantial reductions, in spite of attempts to sour the milk, the company is faced with a massive cost and time for retraining, and even WestJet pilots didn't get much in return as it only benefits a small portion that may be willing to relocate, etc. There usually is a good reason why everyone does it a certain way!
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Madman
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Re: One List

Post by Madman »

WestJets biggest problem...ALPA, and the incompetence that their decisions made by those to represent and make the best decisions for ALL its members.
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Dh8Classic
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Re: One List

Post by Dh8Classic »

FlyingMonkey wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:48 am
Dh8Classic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:00 pm Due to a desire to change jobs back in late 2019, I thought I might start applying at WJ. The Onelist thing had fallen through. Seemed like a good place to work. Then all of a sudden, Onelist. Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.

It seems like the Encore guys were quite happy to do that. Now their willingness to do that has come back to bite them. If you had just been fair and accepted going through the process like everyone else instead of demanding that you get ahead, things would be different.

Don't take it personally, but it is a classic example of trying to unfairly get ahead while in their minds, theoretically accepting a risk that they never thought would happen.
Encore pilots had that seniority long before you came to join WJ. It was taken from us and when it returned, we got back what was ours in the first place. End of story...

You should have known that the one list was not dead when you accepted a job at WJ. It was never dead, just voted down initially. Immediately after it was voted down the WJ MEC and the company were in discussions to get it back.

You took a gamble coming OTS and it didn’t payoff.
Encore pilots voted to screw the OTS guys long ago instead of accepting that they are from a different airline and should be treated the same. Don't worry, regional guys do that wherever they can. Talk about getting screwed by your own greed. Maybe some of the OTS guys are happy now that there is a Q400 job waiting. I wonder what the Encore results would have been if the vote were today. I suspect one that would toss the mainline guys on the street. Maybe we need a new vote guys....to end Onelist. 100% support from Encore pilots.
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CaptainHaddock
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Re: One List

Post by CaptainHaddock »

Ha!, get rid of the one list is shouted out!. Well the fact of the matter is WestJet, Swoop, and Encore ARE all one list now for all intensive purposes. So give it a rest. The most junior Encore FO has 4 years in, and the most junior CA has 6. The majority of Encore is comprised displaced Mainline.All of Swoop is, the most junior Swoop FO has 12 years at WestJet. The most junior WJ FO has 16!.
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Maxpwr
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Re: One List

Post by Maxpwr »

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Last edited by Maxpwr on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JBI
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Re: One List

Post by JBI »

Maxpwr wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:05 am
Intensive purposes? When I have a purpose I like it to be intensive. Sounds serious.
I said it like that for years! When I read that it was actually "for all intents and purposes" I was shocked! :lol:

The other one that came up was a friend would was calling something a "mute" point instead of a moot point.
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mmm..bacon
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Re: One List

Post by mmm..bacon »

Dh8Classic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:00 pm Instead of anybody coming into WJ mainline from the outside starting at the bottom, which seemed fair, all off the street hires were screwed over for any future decent career.
Entitled much? Peeps already working for a company trying to get some say in how their career progression goes while working for that same company are somehow 'screw[ing] over' OTS peeps?
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citizenbanana
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Re: One List

Post by citizenbanana »

Encore and WestJet are separate companies.
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The Raven
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Re: One List

Post by The Raven »

JBI wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:15 am
Maxpwr wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:05 am
Intensive purposes? When I have a purpose I like it to be intensive. Sounds serious.
I said it like that for years! When I read that it was actually "for all intents and purposes" I was shocked! :lol:

The other one that came up was a friend would was calling something a "mute" point instead of a moot point.
It's not a "moot" point, it's a "moo" point. It's like a cow's opinion, it doesn't really matter. :lol:
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Dash.Trash
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Re: One List

Post by Dash.Trash »

citizenbanana wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:40 am Encore and WestJet are separate companies.
One of the terms of employment for a pilot being hired by Encore was a position on the WestJet System seniority list (or whatever it was called.) They were hired with the expectation and promise of flow to mainline, but it was stripped from them and subsequently given back. Anyone who was hired OTS should have known very well what they were getting in to with encore pilots ahead of them.
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citizenbanana
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Re: One List

Post by citizenbanana »

Ok, settle down
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cloak
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Re: One List

Post by cloak »

It's amusing all three parties signed on to the scheme with different expectations and aspirations, none of which have come to fruition!
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Re: One List

Post by CaptainHaddock »

Maxpwr wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:05 am
CaptainHaddock wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:04 pm Ha!, get rid of the one list is shouted out!. Well the fact of the matter is WestJet, Swoop, and Encore ARE all one list now for all intensive purposes. So give it a rest. The most junior Encore FO has 4 years in, and the most junior CA has 6. The majority of Encore is comprised displaced Mainline.All of Swoop is, the most junior Swoop FO has 12 years at WestJet. The most junior WJ FO has 16!.
Intensive purposes? When I have a purpose I like it to be intensive. Sounds serious.
Thanks Maxpwr, Learn something new every day.

Cloak, the one list did get Encore pilots spots at WJ on the way up, and spots at Encore for WJ pilots on the way down.
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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

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Last edited by ALPApolicy on Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FlyingMonkey
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Re: One List

Post by FlyingMonkey »

It’s hard to understand your arguments in the other threads that Encore pilots shouldn’t be on the same seniority list as WJ pilots (even though that LOU was voted on and passed) when over the past two years hundreds of WJ pilots displaced Encore pilots based on seniority.
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