2020 Hiring

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cloak
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by cloak »

Transonic wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:49 am
Hey Cloak,

Why do you think Swoop will grow? Have you heard ONEX wants to grow Swoop?
It's been stated publicly that Swoop is one of the main areas of growth. Its costs are lower, it's allowed within the CBA to grow to 30 tails, reportedly making money, and most importantly guarding the rear, so naturally one can deduce that it will be grow.
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apathetic
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by apathetic »

Full disclosure, I'm a pilot with the company. Obvious from my few previous posts.

I'm curious to know what Cloak does for a living and where. He/she/it seems informed, to a point, and I am curious where their info, and the resultant opinions, come from?

Lots of opinions on here that are patently false.
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Transonic
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Transonic »

Thanks.

I’m actively disengaged however the only public statements I’ve heard is that “ONEX believes in WestJet’s growth strategy”, which is fairly vague.

At 7 aircraft, Swoop has already done a great job protecting the bottom end. Flair may be on its last days. Tim Morgan in January said he would launch before Christmas....

Swoop’s 1st year of profitability is still only a forecast. Swoop Captains in YHM were blocked around 40hrs this Sept and Oct. Earlier this year, our CFO commented that Swoop was more seasonal than expected, hence the significant reduction in capacity during this loll. Meanwhile the fleet is growing by 28% this quarter.

This summer was highly unusual. There were 53 MAX’s on the ground. (I think) That’s the equivalent to 7.5 Swoop size airlines grounded. Swoop had a major tailwind this summer and ONEX is sharp enough to know that.

Here’s an alternate view. Once the WS board is retired, none of the original decision makers who created the NewCo/Swoop strategy will be around. ONEX has no face to save if Swoop is closed down. The main objective of Swoop is deterring investment in Flair and convincing Indigo there are better places in the world for their 400 A320NEOs. Both of these may be achieved in the next couple of years.

The past 2 years have been a blood bath for airlines chasing the cheapest passengers. WOW, Primera, Air Berlin, Monarch and now Thomas Cook are gone. The business model to bet on is the deeply entrenched, mainline carrier with low seasonality and premium traffic.

Anything can happen but my gut says if you want to earn the best return on a 737-800, it’s at WestJet.
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Transonic
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Transonic »

This is highly speculative however Swoop may be around for a long time if it merges with Sunwing Airlines and enters in a contract to provide lift for Sunwing Vacations. It sounds like Sunwing would rather be just a hotel company than an airline. ONEX would love to consolidate sun flying, reduce capacity and increase the margin.
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Lt. Daniel Kaffee
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee »

DaveP wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:35 am
The hiring is due to a number of things - primarily fatigue and duty rules, reserve, growth (wide body and some 737), some attrition to retirements and some just trying a different path.
How main WJ and WJ Encore pilots have left for AC in the past 2/3 years Dave? Why?
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DaveP
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by DaveP »

Hi Dan,
I think it's been no secret it's been a couple tough years here at WJ. Some I'm sure left for faster financial gain, some left for getting a base in their desired city faster (ie Vancouver). Some left in hopes of a quick upgrade and some left because their third wife was leaving them with $200/month in the bank after all the support payments - so off to China they went.

A friend from Winnipeg summarized it great one time - you are standing in the grocery line - the line to your right started moving faster (lets just call it AC for argument sake) - so you pop over to that line. Some get through fast and then the guy in front of you starts digging for change and you wonder if you now made the right move because it started to really slow down....

I think it's in our DNA to move and try and get ahead, especially when you are junior (which is the majority of our attrition). Wayyy back too, I thought I would never see a left seat at Air Ontario when I was there - The CDN merge, flow to AC stopped etc....I was looking at a mountain of guys ahead of me - so I popped over to WestJet, now look at Jazz! That was almost 19 years ago...still love this place, missed the big payout but love the socialized bidding and of course all the peers etc...each place has it's merits. It's still a great place to work and will continue to improve imho. The best part is - I get to go fly a caravan in the summer on amphibs :)

So, to answer your question - I really can't - if that makes sense. Everyone has their own reasons....I think you will always see guys just trying to get ahead and make the best anticipated choice. Some that have gone are happy with their decision, some have tried to come back and some have said there isn't much difference. At the end of the day it's what you make of it. Do your homework and hopefully make a choice that you would be happy with should the music ever stop.

As for the numbers - I think we were just over 2% YTD including some retirements and other reasons (the last time I checked based off almost 1600 pilots). Sorry - I can't recall the previous years. I do think it was less though.

We have a crazy year coming up for recruiting (classes of 16 and 20), the biggest I've ever seen here. Growth, contract, trip and duty, reserve, augmentation on the wide body, retirements etc all contributing. Again, it's a great time to be a pilot. Despite what or how the forum reads there are a lot of good companies here in Canada. Sometimes we forget how fortunate we are here in this country. BTW Trudeau loves our tax rate too...ugggggh.

Take care,
Dave
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co-joe
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by co-joe »

I still think Swoop is the logical place to move the 67's as they get phased out of mainline with more 87's coming. Do you want to give Rouge a run for their money or not?
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Blue42
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Blue42 »

co-joe wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:57 pm
I still think Swoop is the logical place to move the 67's as they get phased out of mainline with more 87's coming. Do you want to give Rouge a run for their money or not?
No widebodies at Swoop.....per the pilot contract!
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Ex DC10 Driver
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Ex DC10 Driver »

More likely to Cargojet. They already operate this type and with the same engines and since they have been certified to operate in Canada it would be a quick and easy transition....other than Cargo doors🙂.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

co-joe wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:57 pm
I still think Swoop is the logical place to move the 67's as they get phased out of mainline with more 87's coming. Do you want to give Rouge a run for their money or not?
The 67s are garbage and WestJet can't wait to get rid of them.
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yycinformer
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by yycinformer »

Delete
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camber
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by camber »

Looking to clarify some things I've read on this thread. I saw someone mention that YYC is now the more senior base and a new hire would expect approx 2 yrs wait in YYZ. Is that 2 years for an OTS guy like myself or would that timeline be for an encore pilot? I understand this might be a "can of worms" type question.

Lastly, what's the current wait to YVR for FOs? Is getting assigned YYZ right out of the gate pretty much a sure thing or is the large numbers that Dave posted a sign of quick entry into other bases..?

-Thanks
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

camber wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:35 pm
Looking to clarify some things I've read on this thread. I saw someone mention that YYC is now the more senior base and a new hire would expect approx 2 yrs wait in YYZ. Is that 2 years for an OTS guy like myself or would that timeline be for an encore pilot? I understand this might be a "can of worms" type question.

Lastly, what's the current wait to YVR for FOs? Is getting assigned YYZ right out of the gate pretty much a sure thing or is the large numbers that Dave posted a sign of quick entry into other bases..?

-Thanks
As the PTA has been accepted and implemented, you're going to be behind a bunch of Encore guys upgrading and wanting a YYC base.
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Hangry
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Hangry »

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:44 pm
camber wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:35 pm
Looking to clarify some things I've read on this thread. I saw someone mention that YYC is now the more senior base and a new hire would expect approx 2 yrs wait in YYZ. Is that 2 years for an OTS guy like myself or would that timeline be for an encore pilot? I understand this might be a "can of worms" type question.

Lastly, what's the current wait to YVR for FOs? Is getting assigned YYZ right out of the gate pretty much a sure thing or is the large numbers that Dave posted a sign of quick entry into other bases..?

-Thanks
As the PTA has been accepted and implemented, you're going to be behind a bunch of Encore guys upgrading and wanting a YYC base.
One can imagine the quality of OTS candidates coming in for that interview. Dare I say even less than Swoop.

At least at Swoop you could see the left seat in less than a decade.
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faculties11
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by faculties11 »

What's the upgrade time for a guy OTS coming to mainline?
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Yycjetdriver »

faculties11 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:07 pm
What's the upgrade time for a guy OTS coming to mainline?
Hard to guess accurately with the new PTA just coming into effect and the fact nothing is constant in aviation. If
I had to bet on an approximate time frame I’d guess 10-11 years given current rates.
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Babar350
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Babar350 »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:52 pm
faculties11 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:07 pm
What's the upgrade time for a guy OTS coming to mainline?
Hard to guess accurately with the new PTA just coming into effect and the fact nothing is constant in aviation. If
I had to bet on an approximate time frame I’d guess 10-11 years given current rates.
Do they have YoS?
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indieadventurer
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by indieadventurer »

As of 7 days ago, January 1st, they have YoS.
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yvrpilot82
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by yvrpilot82 »

camber wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:35 pm
Looking to clarify some things I've read on this thread. I saw someone mention that YYC is now the more senior base and a new hire would expect approx 2 yrs wait in YYZ. Is that 2 years for an OTS guy like myself or would that timeline be for an encore pilot? I understand this might be a "can of worms" type question.

Lastly, what's the current wait to YVR for FOs? Is getting assigned YYZ right out of the gate pretty much a sure thing or is the large numbers that Dave posted a sign of quick entry into other bases..?

-Thanks
The ex-Encore guys getting back to YYC in the latest bid have around 4.5-5 years of seniority.
YYZ out of the gate is a sure thing.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Yycjetdriver »

indieadventurer wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:30 pm
As of 7 days ago, January 1st, they have YoS.
Better wait till they actually dish out the YOS level compensation before saying that. It’s already 12 months overdue, there’s zero reason to have faith in this management.
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Babar350
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Babar350 »

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Last edited by Babar350 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Babar350
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Babar350 »

indieadventurer wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:30 pm
As of 7 days ago, January 1st, they have YoS.
So what are the FO/Captain rates until YOS 12?
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:59 pm
Better wait till they actually dish out the YOS level compensation before saying that. It’s already 12 months overdue, there’s zero reason to have faith in this management.
What do you mean?
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Mach1
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Mach1 »

Hangry wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:55 pm
At least at Swoop you could see the left seat in less than a decade.
I suppose it depends on what is important to you in life, having the ego trip of four bars or making money? If you can't stand to be an FO, I guess you go to Swoop and make FO wages. Or, you go to mainline and out-earn a swoop captain by year 4 as an FO... then keep out earning the swoop captain for the rest of your career no matter what seat you sit in.
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Checklist
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Checklist »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:52 pm
faculties11 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:07 pm
What's the upgrade time for a guy OTS coming to mainline?
Hard to guess accurately with the new PTA just coming into effect and the fact nothing is constant in aviation. If
I had to bet on an approximate time frame I’d guess 10-11 years given current rates.
1200 numbers from the bottom of the list to the most junior mainline captain. At 50-70 upgrades a year...
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 2020 Hiring

Post by Yycjetdriver »

Checklist wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:04 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:52 pm
faculties11 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:07 pm
What's the upgrade time for a guy OTS coming to mainline?
Hard to guess accurately with the new PTA just coming into effect and the fact nothing is constant in aviation. If
I had to bet on an approximate time frame I’d guess 10-11 years given current rates.
1200 numbers from the bottom of the list to the most junior mainline captain. At 50-70 upgrades a year...
Numbers released for 2020 had 100+ upgrades and those numbers probably don’t account for the junior captains leaving for AC. Either way it’s going to be difficult to attract/retain quality OTS candidates.
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