Swoop

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flyinhigh
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Swoop

Post by flyinhigh »

I could have gone to Swoop while I was with Encore as a DOC and ran away as fast as I could knowing what all the work rules are. So I am genuinely curious as to why is anyone going now that there is even more information on how bad it really is out there.

They are clearly the worst operator in Canada and everyone knows it, so why are people signing up for this?
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AirportCoffee
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Re: Swoop

Post by AirportCoffee »

Fully agree with you but there could be a couple reasons:

-Living in YHM/YEG and they prefer to keep it that way (even if it means working 20 days a month)
-Easy way to get jet time and go overseas.
-Brain dead
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PT6onH20
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Re: Swoop

Post by PT6onH20 »

Do you think the cashier at no frills likes their job?

Some people need an income and don’t get to pick where they work. Be thankful you have options.
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FICU
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Re: Swoop

Post by FICU »

We had a senior Boeing Captain go to Swoop and he sounds happier than a pig in shit after taking close to a 50% pay cut to work much longer days. To each their own.
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FL410AV8R
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Re: Swoop

Post by FL410AV8R »

FICU wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:11 pm
We had a senior Boeing Captain go to Swoop and he sounds happier than a pig in shit after taking close to a 50% pay cut to work much longer days. To each their own.
Who is "we" ??
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flyingvinnie
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Re: Swoop

Post by flyingvinnie »

flyinhigh wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:48 am
I could have gone to Swoop while I was with Encore as a DOC and ran away as fast as I could knowing what all the work rules are. So I am genuinely curious as to why is anyone going now that there is even more information on how bad it really is out there.

They are clearly the worst operator in Canada and everyone knows it, so why are people signing up for this?
Same reason people would quit a job that pays $100,000, to go make less than half that at encore or mainline. People do what they think is right for them. Would I go to WJ or encore and work for that pay, under those conditions? No, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t the choice for others.

Many would think that you are contributing to lowering the bar by working at encore. You’re wondering why people would go to swoop, and I’m sitting here wondering why you would go to encore. Everyone has their opinions and choices to make!
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Swoop

Post by Yycjetdriver »

flyingvinnie wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:57 pm
flyinhigh wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:48 am
I could have gone to Swoop while I was with Encore as a DOC and ran away as fast as I could knowing what all the work rules are. So I am genuinely curious as to why is anyone going now that there is even more information on how bad it really is out there.

They are clearly the worst operator in Canada and everyone knows it, so why are people signing up for this?
Same reason people would quit a job that pays $100,000, to go make less than half that at encore or mainline. People do what they think is right for them. Would I go to WJ or encore and work for that pay, under those conditions? No, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t the choice for others.

Many would think that you are contributing to lowering the bar by working at encore. You’re wondering why people would go to swoop, and I’m sitting here wondering why you would go to encore. Everyone has their opinions and choices to make!
+1
The original poster must have made such as decision as some point if you did in fact meet the matrix to be DEC at Swoop but are working at Encore, maybe you should be a little more understanding. I don’t know the exact hours of the matrix but believe it’s something along the lines of 5000 hours, 2000 hours 705, 500 hours 705 jet. Surely you didn’t get those hours after going to Encore.

Disclaimer: In no way do I support swoop or those that work there, but can’t fault someone for putting food on the table at all costs.
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop

Post by altiplano »

Are work conditions at Encore all that great?

It's just CARs is it not?

They were by far the lowest rung regional in the country when they launched if I recall correctly...

Swoop, Encore, same shit...
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: Swoop

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

altiplano wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:56 am
Are work conditions at Encore all that great?

It's just CARs is it not?

They were by far the lowest rung regional in the country when they launched if I recall correctly...

Swoop, Encore, same shit...
Yeah, I have been loving working at Encore. Yeah, some people bitch and moan, but that's not everybody.

The only thing that would make Encore better is higher pay. That being said, we're still higher than Jazz.
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mijbil
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Re: Swoop

Post by mijbil »

FICU wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:11 pm
We had a senior Boeing Captain go to Swoop and he sounds happier than a pig in shit after taking close to a 50% pay cut to work much longer days. To each their own.
Jake the Snake?
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alkaseltzer
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Re: Swoop

Post by alkaseltzer »

flyinhigh wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:48 am
I could have gone to Swoop while I was with Encore as a DOC and ran away as fast as I could knowing what all the work rules are. So I am genuinely curious as to why is anyone going now that there is even more information on how bad it really is out there.

They are clearly the worst operator in Canada and everyone knows it, so why are people signing up for this?
What world are you living in? Every operator has their growing pains. I don't work for them, but don't s**t on them. You sound like a complete moron - there I said it.

Do you really think you being a Q400 captain is the differentiator these days? Do you think you'll have a leg up on people who have jet time, and overseas experience coming back? If you wanted to say screw it to Westjet, have you ever thought about how you'd differentiate yourself from a Porter/Jazz Q400 captain? If you feel great as a turboprop captain, so be it. But don't s""t on the bastard child of a company that no one wanted to be apart of initially. People there are making a living, and some actually like it.

I have friends there that are top notch pilots; schedule and short commute works for them. Of course, I also know very weak pilots there too, but every airline has their black sheep.

I have read your other posts, and all you've done is s""t on Swoop. I get that you have left-seat-itis but time to leave the swoopsters alone.
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CaptainHaddock
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Re: Swoop

Post by CaptainHaddock »

The original poster is correct, he is better off an Encore captain. Better Sched, benefits, jump seat, travel benefits, uniform, won’t get charged to drink a pop whilst in command of a 50 million $ aircraft,etc,etc
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flyinhigh
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Re: Swoop

Post by flyinhigh »

1) I'm living in the world i've worked in for 20 years. I've seen amazing operators and the slimiest.

2) MMM, if you read my other posts you'd also know that I am not a Q4 Captain as I left that role for a right seat early in the year. 1/3 of my total time is right seat and have no issues sitting in it.

3) Since the day Swoop was dreamt up, I have shit on them and will continue to do so until it has taken its place in history just like Jetsgo (They folded in 2005 after having crappy management incase you haven't heard of them). I have ZERO respect for the Company Swoop or the management that dreamt up the shithole it is. Every single crewing issue they have is because management will not listen to the pilots (ALPA) on how it should have been.

3) I also know people there, most are good quality folks. The purpose of the topic is why people will go there? I have shit on them, so maybe someone that works their can chime in a say "Oh I actually don't work 20 days a month, I'm averaging 14", "Yes, I make $103 hr as first year cant, buy my perdiems bump me up", etc.

4) Also, I have not once had a single argument with any SWOOPSTER or personally attacked them. I have however told the management to their faces why Swoop is such a pile of horse shit (I'll provide names if you'd like, but it won't be on a public forum).

alkaseltzer wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:58 am
What world are you living in? Every operator has their growing pains. I don't work for them, but don't s**t on them. You sound like a complete moron - there I said it.

Do you really think you being a Q400 captain is the differentiator these days? Do you think you'll have a leg up on people who have jet time, and overseas experience coming back? If you wanted to say screw it to Westjet, have you ever thought about how you'd differentiate yourself from a Porter/Jazz Q400 captain? If you feel great as a turboprop captain, so be it. But don't s""t on the bastard child of a company that no one wanted to be apart of initially. People there are making a living, and some actually like it.

I have friends there that are top notch pilots; schedule and short commute works for them. Of course, I also know very weak pilots there too, but every airline has their black sheep.

I have read your other posts, and all you've done is s""t on Swoop. I get that you have left-seat-itis but time to leave the swoopsters alone.
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mbav8r
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Re: Swoop

Post by mbav8r »

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:01 pm
altiplano wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:56 am
Are work conditions at Encore all that great?

It's just CARs is it not?

They were by far the lowest rung regional in the country when they launched if I recall correctly...

Swoop, Encore, same shit...
Yeah, I have been loving working at Encore. Yeah, some people bitch and moan, but that's not everybody.

The only thing that would make Encore better is higher pay. That being said, we're still higher than Jazz.
Care to post Encore pay scale, I’m calling bs on the “we’re still higher than Jazz” but hey I’d love to be wrong on that.
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tbayav8er
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Re: Swoop

Post by tbayav8er »

Yeah we're not higher than Jazz at Encore, and our payscale stops at 5 years. After 5 years, I believe there's something that says it only goes up by 2%/year or something like that, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. FO pay is pretty much the same as Jazz, and Captain pay pushed closer to Jazz (at least for the first 5 years), and we still don't have trip/duty rigs implemented.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: Swoop

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

tbayav8er wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:03 am
Yeah we're not higher than Jazz at Encore, and our payscale stops at 5 years. After 5 years, I believe there's something that says it only goes up by 2%/year or something like that, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. FO pay is pretty much the same as Jazz, and Captain pay pushed closer to Jazz (at least for the first 5 years), and we still don't have trip/duty rigs implemented.
The Jazz website shows that, based on a month with 82.5 hours, they're making $39,000 per year. That's $39 dollars an hour.

Encore is over $44 per hour. If you worked 82.5 hours, you'd take home $44,000 per year.

This is of course, the first step of the pay scale.
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tbayav8er
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Re: Swoop

Post by tbayav8er »

Jazz has trip/duty rigs, and look at what their pay scales top out at. Not saying their pay is fantastic either, but again, at Encore, we still don't have trip and duty rigs, and our payscales top out at 5 years. I'm not saying Jazz pay is fantastic, and yes, for a year one FO, their pay is slightly less, but over the course of say 6 or 7 years, you would earn more money at Jazz, and have essentially guaranteed flow to AC (at least from what I've calculated). Also, no Encore FO that I know of is working 82.5 hours, unless they're picking up like crazy. I know FO's in YYZ who are only working 12 days this month (no vacation, just their awarded schedule). So with $44/hr at 75 hours, and only 12 days of per diems and no RIGs, those are going to be some tough pay cheques.

In any case, I wouldn't touch Swoop with a 10 foot pole. To each their own though.
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flyer 1492
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Re: Swoop

Post by flyer 1492 »

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:57 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:03 am
Yeah we're not higher than Jazz at Encore, and our payscale stops at 5 years. After 5 years, I believe there's something that says it only goes up by 2%/year or something like that, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. FO pay is pretty much the same as Jazz, and Captain pay pushed closer to Jazz (at least for the first 5 years), and we still don't have trip/duty rigs implemented.
The Jazz website shows that, based on a month with 82.5 hours, they're making $39,000 per year. That's $39 dollars an hour.

Encore is over $44 per hour. If you worked 82.5 hours, you'd take home $44,000 per year.

This is of course, the first step of the pay scale.
It's easy to compare just the wages between the two companies. You have to compare ALL the benefits as well.
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daedalusx
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Re: Swoop

Post by daedalusx »

Jazz vs Encore pay :rolleyes:

One will have a slightly higher T4 ... but I mean in real life what does that get you ? An extra case of Costco Deluxe KD and a 6pack of old Milwaukee per week ? They’re both below poverty level for their city bases.

One will have slightly better benefits and RRSP.

One will have more opportunities for overtime (if you don’t value having a life).

One has seniority bidding and reserve ...

One has a free commute

One has a base with a slightly lower cost of living

Nowadays it’s more about exit strategies - who really wants to do this shit for the next 30 years at those wages ?

Couple of years ago one of the quickest way to AC was Encore ... now it’s not. Couple of years ago Encore had flow and one list ... now ... who knows.

Encore do have quick upgrades ... So does Jazz depending on base and equipment.

Encore capts works a ton of days ... so do Swoopstars. Swoop at least will get you that NG type rating if you want to do the expat thing - which frankly- isnt what it used to be, especially if you have no jet PIC time. At the end of the day, they all have their pros and cons and some will work better than others due to their personal lifestyle and family situation.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: Swoop

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

flyer 1492 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:22 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:57 pm
tbayav8er wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:03 am
Yeah we're not higher than Jazz at Encore, and our payscale stops at 5 years. After 5 years, I believe there's something that says it only goes up by 2%/year or something like that, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. FO pay is pretty much the same as Jazz, and Captain pay pushed closer to Jazz (at least for the first 5 years), and we still don't have trip/duty rigs implemented.
The Jazz website shows that, based on a month with 82.5 hours, they're making $39,000 per year. That's $39 dollars an hour.

Encore is over $44 per hour. If you worked 82.5 hours, you'd take home $44,000 per year.

This is of course, the first step of the pay scale.
It's easy to compare just the wages between the two companies. You have to compare ALL the benefits as well.
Oh, I got this!

As you'll see by my beautiful table, Encore is by far the better airline.

Code: Select all

               | Encore |  Jazz
=================================
First Year Pay | $44.25 | $39.00
---------------------------------
Good chance of |   Yes  |   No
getting on     |        |
when you're    |        |
flying stby    |        |
---------------------------------
Interview at   |   No   |   Yes
Mainline       |        |
---------------------------------
Guaranteed job |   Yes  |   No
at Mainline    |        |
---------------------------------
Knowing what   |   Yes  |   No
you'll fly     |        |
before day 1   |        |
---------------------------------
Knowing your   |   Yes  |   No
base before    |        |
day 1          |        |
---------------------------------
Commute for    |   Yes  |   No
free           |        |
---------------------------------
Fly a tail     |  Soon  |   No
w/Maple Leaf   |        |
---------------------------------
Must wear      |   No   |   Yes
ugly hat       |        |
---------------------------------
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Roughrider748
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Re: Swoop

Post by Roughrider748 »

flyinhigh wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:58 am
1) I'm living in the world i've worked in for 20 years. I've seen amazing operators and the slimiest.

2) MMM, if you read my other posts you'd also know that I am not a Q4 Captain as I left that role for a right seat early in the year. 1/3 of my total time is right seat and have no issues sitting in it.

3) Since the day Swoop was dreamt up, I have shit on them and will continue to do so until it has taken its place in history just like Jetsgo (They folded in 2005 after having crappy management incase you haven't heard of them). I have ZERO respect for the Company Swoop or the management that dreamt up the shithole it is. Every single crewing issue they have is because management will not listen to the pilots (ALPA) on how it should have been.

3) I also know people there, most are good quality folks. The purpose of the topic is why people will go there? I have shit on them, so maybe someone that works their can chime in a say "Oh I actually don't work 20 days a month, I'm averaging 14", "Yes, I make $103 hr as first year cant, buy my perdiems bump me up", etc.

4) Also, I have not once had a single argument with any SWOOPSTER or personally attacked them. I have however told the management to their faces why Swoop is such a pile of horse shit (I'll provide names if you'd like, but it won't be on a public forum).

alkaseltzer wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:58 am
What world are you living in? Every operator has their growing pains. I don't work for them, but don't s**t on them. You sound like a complete moron - there I said it.

Do you really think you being a Q400 captain is the differentiator these days? Do you think you'll have a leg up on people who have jet time, and overseas experience coming back? If you wanted to say screw it to Westjet, have you ever thought about how you'd differentiate yourself from a Porter/Jazz Q400 captain? If you feel great as a turboprop captain, so be it. But don't s""t on the bastard child of a company that no one wanted to be apart of initially. People there are making a living, and some actually like it.

I have friends there that are top notch pilots; schedule and short commute works for them. Of course, I also know very weak pilots there too, but every airline has their black sheep.

I have read your other posts, and all you've done is s""t on Swoop. I get that you have left-seat-itis but time to leave the swoopsters alone.
Pm me. Would love to chat
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co-joe
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Re: Swoop

Post by co-joe »

Great table plausibly, the hat is the real tie breaker there.
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Rowdy
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Re: Swoop

Post by Rowdy »

co-joe wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 am
Great table plausibly, the hat is the real tie breaker there.
I thought they were soon getting hats?
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Swoop

Post by Zaibatsu »

That table needs expansion.

How many AC mainline guys are going to WJ right now? How many WJ mainline guys are going to AC?

In WJ, you’re going to be YYZ right seat for most of a decade. Staying Encore or going Swoop is your only shot in house at the left seat for the foreseeable future.

At least AC you can upgrade fast to make a YYZ base/commute more bearable, or bid widebody RP and live the life in Lotusland doing a few trips a month.
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Canadianjetpilot
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Re: Swoop

Post by Canadianjetpilot »

The only thing that was a plus at WJ over AC was no reserve. That is now gone.

All other elements of compensation are effectively equal to or better at AC

Career progression and options are better at AC.

Career earnings will be higher at AC

About the only reason to fly at WJ is if you dont want to wear a hat.
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