There was no need for me to re-read the CBA or PTA, I know what they say and have zero faith in the ELT. The email from the MEC tonight saying how the union and the company are not “interpreting” the CBA and PTA the same is further proof they’re trying to circumvent it to the best of their ability....hurtin'albertan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:18 am Guys a lot of this rumour and speculation could be resolved by just reading the contract and PTA agreement.
There is no force majeure clause in the contract. There is something that sounds like a force majeure clause in the layoff section, but it only applies to notice of layoff timelines and layoff pay. That's it. If it applied to the whole contract it wouldn't specify the exact clauses it applies to! And it would live up in Scope or General or something, not buried in section 20 Layoffs. Even when that card is pulled (20.1.05) you still get layoff pay, but less.
As far as bumping to Encore, the PTA spells it out. If a mainline guy is gonna be on the street, he can bump into an Encore position. Period. "BUMP". Not "fill vacancy". When I bump you, you fall off your chair. That's the price the Encore guys (and company for recruitment carrots, remember when that was a thing? ) were willing to pay for getting a number on the WJ main list.
Please go read the contract and PTA. Then read it again for good measure. Then think about how bad it would look on WJ if they fu*&ed around with things and decide if they are willing to look like DBs to save a buck or 3, when every other airline is following the rules they agreed on.
WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
This is sounding like they will do what they think and tell you to grieve it, going to arbitration and we know how that goes.Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pmThere was no need for me to re-read the CBA or PTA, I know what they say and have zero faith in the ELT. The email from the MEC tonight saying how the union and the company are not “interpreting” the CBA and PTA the same is further proof they’re trying to circumvent it to the best of their ability....hurtin'albertan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:18 am Guys a lot of this rumour and speculation could be resolved by just reading the contract and PTA agreement.
There is no force majeure clause in the contract. There is something that sounds like a force majeure clause in the layoff section, but it only applies to notice of layoff timelines and layoff pay. That's it. If it applied to the whole contract it wouldn't specify the exact clauses it applies to! And it would live up in Scope or General or something, not buried in section 20 Layoffs. Even when that card is pulled (20.1.05) you still get layoff pay, but less.
As far as bumping to Encore, the PTA spells it out. If a mainline guy is gonna be on the street, he can bump into an Encore position. Period. "BUMP". Not "fill vacancy". When I bump you, you fall off your chair. That's the price the Encore guys (and company for recruitment carrots, remember when that was a thing? ) were willing to pay for getting a number on the WJ main list.
Please go read the contract and PTA. Then read it again for good measure. Then think about how bad it would look on WJ if they fu*&ed around with things and decide if they are willing to look like DBs to save a buck or 3, when every other airline is following the rules they agreed on.
I sincerely wish you guys the best, I hope we all have a speedy resumption of demand.
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
Never worked in a union environment before?? IAM, CUPE, TEAMSTERS, ACPA, and guess what, ALPA. They’re all the same. Except most of those other ones communicate! Plus they have a lot more experience in the game.mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:19 pmThis is sounding like they will do what they think and tell you to grieve it, going to arbitration and we know how that goes.Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pmThere was no need for me to re-read the CBA or PTA, I know what they say and have zero faith in the ELT. The email from the MEC tonight saying how the union and the company are not “interpreting” the CBA and PTA the same is further proof they’re trying to circumvent it to the best of their ability....hurtin'albertan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:18 am Guys a lot of this rumour and speculation could be resolved by just reading the contract and PTA agreement.
There is no force majeure clause in the contract. There is something that sounds like a force majeure clause in the layoff section, but it only applies to notice of layoff timelines and layoff pay. That's it. If it applied to the whole contract it wouldn't specify the exact clauses it applies to! And it would live up in Scope or General or something, not buried in section 20 Layoffs. Even when that card is pulled (20.1.05) you still get layoff pay, but less.
As far as bumping to Encore, the PTA spells it out. If a mainline guy is gonna be on the street, he can bump into an Encore position. Period. "BUMP". Not "fill vacancy". When I bump you, you fall off your chair. That's the price the Encore guys (and company for recruitment carrots, remember when that was a thing? ) were willing to pay for getting a number on the WJ main list.
Please go read the contract and PTA. Then read it again for good measure. Then think about how bad it would look on WJ if they fu*&ed around with things and decide if they are willing to look like DBs to save a buck or 3, when every other airline is following the rules they agreed on.
I sincerely wish you guys the best, I hope we all have a speedy resumption of demand.
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
Nor would anyone expect you to understand economics and why Westjet isn't going to train 300 initial Q400 courses.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
Layoffs announced today. 1700 total, notices going out tomorrow. 700 effective May 1st, 1000 effective June 1st.
- George Taylor
- Rank 3
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:21 am
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
tbaylx, you're the plague in aviation. You should be called Tbaylx-19. Ef-u and your lack of current knowledge of what's going on here. You went from flying one ugly plane to an even uglier one.
- 98 Corolla
- Rank 2
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:26 am
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
So are all Encore pilots laid off and those spots will be filled by WestJet pilots or not?
- Jean-Pierre
- Rank 5
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:56 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
They're not going to train 737 pilots to fly the Q400 in a couple of weeks. The one list was always a one way street.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 12:00 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
That's not how I read the e-mail from JA or the WEN MEC. The phrase that sticks out to me is "...per bargaining unit." That says to me we're being treated as individual groups, PTA be damned. Although I would have been screwed with the PTA, I really wish they'd follow what we agreed to.So are all Encore pilots laid off and those spots will be filled by WestJet pilots or not?
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
The government is giving out free money for wages until at least June 6th. It's not much but it's more than EI. Why are scumbag companies doing this?
It's like they are holding their employees as hostages and saying if they don't get a bailout they are going pull the trigger. And just to prove they aren't bluffing they already pulled it on 75% of them.
It's like they are holding their employees as hostages and saying if they don't get a bailout they are going pull the trigger. And just to prove they aren't bluffing they already pulled it on 75% of them.
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
https://globalnews.ca/news/6825183/coro ... s-layoffs/
This news article states that those furloughed May 1 and June 1 will remain on CEWS until June 6.
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
I just saw the numbers... I'm shocked. I hope we get out the other side of this quickly.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:26 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
I’ve heard plans of returning with only 39-737’s and 22-Q400’s. What are the plans for the 787’s and the 767’s? Initially parking or any being returned ?
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
I was told Air Canada has already shown interest in purchasing the 787 aircraft.thrust set wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:46 am I’ve heard plans of returning with only 39-737’s and 22-Q400’s. What are the plans for the 787’s and the 767’s? Initially parking or any being returned ?
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
I believe AC already has 787 options available from Boeing at a significantly discounted price, 2004 prices from the initial 777/787 order. Plus with MAX leverage? Plus with Boeing desperate for orders? That price would be getting really good.derk99 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:36 amI was told Air Canada has already shown interest in purchasing the 787 aircraft.thrust set wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:46 am I’ve heard plans of returning with only 39-737’s and 22-Q400’s. What are the plans for the 787’s and the 767’s? Initially parking or any being returned ?
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
The only reason that AC would be adding a 787 is to replace another WB. Is AC looking at reducing/exiting the 777 platform?
It is unlikely that ONEX has already influenced the business plan at WJ to the extent that the overseas initiative will be terminated. However, it is certainly possible that it may be an opportunity to early exit the 767 fleet.
The layoff announcement is very sad news for WJ Pilots. And a reality check for any other large pilot group that imagines itself somehow immune to both the immediate and longer term impact on passenger travel volume of the COVID crisis. The peak of global travel volume was reached in the summer of 2019. Most optimistic predictions coming from CEO’s and analysts are summer 2021 capacity at 80% of 2019. And not back to 2019 levels until 2022 or even 2023.
It is unlikely that ONEX has already influenced the business plan at WJ to the extent that the overseas initiative will be terminated. However, it is certainly possible that it may be an opportunity to early exit the 767 fleet.
The layoff announcement is very sad news for WJ Pilots. And a reality check for any other large pilot group that imagines itself somehow immune to both the immediate and longer term impact on passenger travel volume of the COVID crisis. The peak of global travel volume was reached in the summer of 2019. Most optimistic predictions coming from CEO’s and analysts are summer 2021 capacity at 80% of 2019. And not back to 2019 levels until 2022 or even 2023.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
The plan was/is to operate one 787, that may have changed slightly with cargo demand. The 767’s are done, this was the plan for this coming fall anyways it just helped speed up the process. The 67’s require significant investments in the form of scheduled maintenance in order to keep them flying, WestJet wasn’t planning on making those investments and certainly isn’t now. Its rumoured they have a cargo operator who has agreed to buy them, maybe PrimeAir.thrust set wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:46 am I’ve heard plans of returning with only 39-737’s and 22-Q400’s. What are the plans for the 787’s and the 767’s? Initially parking or any being returned ?
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
- Daniel Cooper
- Rank 5
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
- Location: Unknown
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
I think it's 17-737s and 22-Q400s. 39 aircraft total.thrust set wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:46 am I’ve heard plans of returning with only 39-737’s and 22-Q400’s. What are the plans for the 787’s and the 767’s? Initially parking or any being returned ?
Good luck to all, hope for a quick return.
TS
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
A fleet reduction post sound like trolling if you don't identify a source.
The WestJet guys and gals don't need unverified nonsense right now.
Very disrespectful in light of the layoff news. Isn't it bad enough?
The WestJet guys and gals don't need unverified nonsense right now.
Very disrespectful in light of the layoff news. Isn't it bad enough?
Re: WestJet Group Hiring Freeze
F*cking brutal. I really hope its only few months.