Will Westjet survive?

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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

We only pretend to care. People can get on social media and declare they are never flying (insert airline name here) again, but we know that most of them will.... They have limited options. Someone has figured out that the money saved with this move exceeds the money lost as a result of out sourcing this work.

It sucks, and I feel for everyone affected.

Bet: Every remaining employee will be a member of a union within 6 months.
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:02 pm We only pretend to care. People can get on social media and declare they are never flying (insert airline name here) again, but we know that most of them will.... They have limited options. Someone has figured out that the money saved with this move exceeds the money lost as a result of out sourcing this work.

It sucks, and I feel for everyone affected.

Bet: Every remaining employee will be a member of a union within 6 months.
As one of those employees who isn't unionized and is waiting to know my fate...if I get brought back there is no way in HELL I'll vote for union.

Love how its working out for you guys... :rolleyes:
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
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altiplano
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by altiplano »

lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:22 pm Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
Well said.
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:22 pm Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
Remember when you guys almost bankrupted the airline over Swoop? And then...Swoop still launched and nobody got profit share?

Remember the time ya'll screwed over Encore (solidarity my brothers)?

Remember the time you fought for a 2.5% salary increase only to give it all back in union dues?

Remember the time ya'll stopped grooming and in turn made the FA's do it while ya'll watched?

....you're right...I may never work for WJ again. However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.

:roll:
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JBI
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by JBI »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.
NoSocks,

I am glad to hear that you are working. I wish you the best.

In your juvenile, petulant and quite frankly not helpful inflammatory posts, you unintentionally hit the nail on the head regarding the benefits of having a union for pilots. While many of the WestJet/Encore/Swoop pilots do indeed have transferable skills, to actually fly as a pilot is a very specific skill. Not sure what your job with WJ was or what your training/background was, but each of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars in training, not to mention the sacrifice of moving to different parts of the country and missing countless birthdays and holidays to get to the positions that we are in today.

While I can only speak from the Encore perspective, but after having assisted with the non-certified employee association and later the union, the pilots are all 100% better-off being unionized. One needs only look at what has happened at airlines such as Emirates where lay-offs were sudden, random and not in seniority order. My LinkedIn feed is filled with 10, 15 and 22 year pilots from these carriers with announcements that they have been "made redundant" while pilots junior than them (read: cheaper) still have jobs.

It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows with certification - you've definitely hit on some of the low points, but even still, you severely miss the point of this situation: as a certified group, we have a legal say in what happens to our jobs. That's something we didn't have as a non-unionized group.
Even in a situation where the company was only operating 5% of their flights, we still had 67% of the pilots receiving a pay cheque.

Anyways, hopefully your new job will keep you busy enough so that you can do something more productive than trying to post anonymous vitriolic nonsense.
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am
lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:22 pm Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
Remember when you guys almost bankrupted the airline over Swoop? And then...Swoop still launched and nobody got profit share?

Remember the time ya'll screwed over Encore (solidarity my brothers)?

Remember the time you fought for a 2.5% salary increase only to give it all back in union dues?

Remember the time ya'll stopped grooming and in turn made the FA's do it while ya'll watched?

....you're right...I may never work for WJ again. However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.

:roll:
Can't argue with a group of people who PAY money to wash a company's airplanes... :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm going to stop by with my car next week. I'll let you wash it for $10.

I give WJ all the credit in the world for the level of brainwashing they have been able to accomplish here over the years. If pilots (and other employee groups) picking up garbage for free is the only way for a company to make a profit, does that company deserve to be in business?
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

JBI wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:01 am
NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.
NoSocks,

I am glad to hear that you are working. I wish you the best.

In your juvenile, petulant and quite frankly not helpful inflammatory posts, you unintentionally hit the nail on the head regarding the benefits of having a union for pilots. While many of the WestJet/Encore/Swoop pilots do indeed have transferable skills, to actually fly as a pilot is a very specific skill. Not sure what your job with WJ was or what your training/background was, but each of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars in training, not to mention the sacrifice of moving to different parts of the country and missing countless birthdays and holidays to get to the positions that we are in today.

While I can only speak from the Encore perspective, but after having assisted with the non-certified employee association and later the union, the pilots are all 100% better-off being unionized. One needs only look at what has happened at airlines such as Emirates where lay-offs were sudden, random and not in seniority order. My LinkedIn feed is filled with 10, 15 and 22 year pilots from these carriers with announcements that they have been "made redundant" while pilots junior than them (read: cheaper) still have jobs.

It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows with certification - you've definitely hit on some of the low points, but even still, you severely miss the point of this situation: as a certified group, we have a legal say in what happens to our jobs. That's something we didn't have as a non-unionized group.
Even in a situation where the company was only operating 5% of their flights, we still had 67% of the pilots receiving a pay cheque.

Anyways, hopefully your new job will keep you busy enough so that you can do something more productive than trying to post anonymous vitriolic nonsense.

Of those 67% how many are on CEWS? You don't need a union for that.

My favourite part of your response is your first paragraph. Typical WestJet pilot speak. Look at me. I sacrificed so much. I spent all this money. I worked so hard to get to this point in my career. Like you and your group were the only ones at WestJet to sacrifice their personal lives, spend money on education etc etc. What a load!

Your union drive created incredible harm to the organization. All for what? You get 120 months of recall rights? So you don't have to groom? So you can get a 2 tier pay structure (good job on that one guys...)

In the end though...you've got those awesome transferable skills right? I mean...there is a massive demand for q400 type rated First Officers. :lol:
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:23 am
JBI wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:01 am
NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.
NoSocks,

I am glad to hear that you are working. I wish you the best.

In your juvenile, petulant and quite frankly not helpful inflammatory posts, you unintentionally hit the nail on the head regarding the benefits of having a union for pilots. While many of the WestJet/Encore/Swoop pilots do indeed have transferable skills, to actually fly as a pilot is a very specific skill. Not sure what your job with WJ was or what your training/background was, but each of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars in training, not to mention the sacrifice of moving to different parts of the country and missing countless birthdays and holidays to get to the positions that we are in today.

While I can only speak from the Encore perspective, but after having assisted with the non-certified employee association and later the union, the pilots are all 100% better-off being unionized. One needs only look at what has happened at airlines such as Emirates where lay-offs were sudden, random and not in seniority order. My LinkedIn feed is filled with 10, 15 and 22 year pilots from these carriers with announcements that they have been "made redundant" while pilots junior than them (read: cheaper) still have jobs.

It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows with certification - you've definitely hit on some of the low points, but even still, you severely miss the point of this situation: as a certified group, we have a legal say in what happens to our jobs. That's something we didn't have as a non-unionized group.
Even in a situation where the company was only operating 5% of their flights, we still had 67% of the pilots receiving a pay cheque.

Anyways, hopefully your new job will keep you busy enough so that you can do something more productive than trying to post anonymous vitriolic nonsense.

Of those 67% how many are on CEWS? You don't need a union for that.

My favourite part of your response is your first paragraph. Typical WestJet pilot speak. Look at me. I sacrificed so much. I spent all this money. I worked so hard to get to this point in my career. Like you and your group were the only ones at WestJet to sacrifice their personal lives, spend money on education etc etc. What a load!

Your union drive created incredible harm to the organization. All for what? You get 120 months of recall rights? So you don't have to groom? So you can get a 2 tier pay structure (good job on that one guys...)

In the end though...you've got those awesome transferable skills right? I mean...there is a massive demand for q400 type rated First Officers. :lol:
How does a union showing up at a company, in an industry where every other competitor is unionized, harm the organization? Especially when those other organizations are doing better than us. The employees won't be the death of this place, that honour will go to another group.

It's interesting that you have moved on to a different career and clearly have issues with pilots, yet you spend your time on avcanada...
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

lostaviator wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:31 am
NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:23 am
JBI wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:01 am

NoSocks,

I am glad to hear that you are working. I wish you the best.

In your juvenile, petulant and quite frankly not helpful inflammatory posts, you unintentionally hit the nail on the head regarding the benefits of having a union for pilots. While many of the WestJet/Encore/Swoop pilots do indeed have transferable skills, to actually fly as a pilot is a very specific skill. Not sure what your job with WJ was or what your training/background was, but each of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars in training, not to mention the sacrifice of moving to different parts of the country and missing countless birthdays and holidays to get to the positions that we are in today.

While I can only speak from the Encore perspective, but after having assisted with the non-certified employee association and later the union, the pilots are all 100% better-off being unionized. One needs only look at what has happened at airlines such as Emirates where lay-offs were sudden, random and not in seniority order. My LinkedIn feed is filled with 10, 15 and 22 year pilots from these carriers with announcements that they have been "made redundant" while pilots junior than them (read: cheaper) still have jobs.

It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows with certification - you've definitely hit on some of the low points, but even still, you severely miss the point of this situation: as a certified group, we have a legal say in what happens to our jobs. That's something we didn't have as a non-unionized group.
Even in a situation where the company was only operating 5% of their flights, we still had 67% of the pilots receiving a pay cheque.

Anyways, hopefully your new job will keep you busy enough so that you can do something more productive than trying to post anonymous vitriolic nonsense.

Of those 67% how many are on CEWS? You don't need a union for that.

My favourite part of your response is your first paragraph. Typical WestJet pilot speak. Look at me. I sacrificed so much. I spent all this money. I worked so hard to get to this point in my career. Like you and your group were the only ones at WestJet to sacrifice their personal lives, spend money on education etc etc. What a load!

Your union drive created incredible harm to the organization. All for what? You get 120 months of recall rights? So you don't have to groom? So you can get a 2 tier pay structure (good job on that one guys...)

In the end though...you've got those awesome transferable skills right? I mean...there is a massive demand for q400 type rated First Officers. :lol:
How does a union showing up at a company, in an industry where every other competitor is unionized, harm the organization? The employees won't be the death of this place, that honour will go to another group.

It's interesting that you have moved on to a different career and clearly have issues with pilots, yet you spend your time on avcanada...

I dunno, perhaps the 30+ million in revenue loss during that union drive is what caused the harm to the organization? Perhaps its the consumer sentiment? Perhaps its the damage you folks did to the brand at that point?

Anyone that differs in opinion with a WestJet pilot in your mind...is someone who has issues with pilots. Arrogance is what this. Drop the us vs them mentality. I don't have issues with Pilots. You have issues with people who don't think like you....

Your group has done more harm to this organization in the past 5 years then anyone else. All your group has managed to do was create division but hey... at least you don't have to groom right?
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JBI
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by JBI »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:23 am

Of those 67% how many are on CEWS? You don't need a union for that.

My favourite part of your response is your first paragraph. Typical WestJet pilot speak. Look at me. I sacrificed so much. I spent all this money. I worked so hard to get to this point in my career. Like you and your group were the only ones at WestJet to sacrifice their personal lives, spend money on education etc etc. What a load!

Your union drive created incredible harm to the organization. All for what? You get 120 months of recall rights? So you don't have to groom? So you can get a 2 tier pay structure (good job on that one guys...)

In the end though...you've got those awesome transferable skills right? I mean...there is a massive demand for q400 type rated First Officers. :lol:
Unfortunately it seems one of your 'transferable skills' isn't reading comprehension. I specifically said that flying is a specific skill set. Perhaps I should have used smaller words or not used a compound sentence with multiple subjects and objects of prepositions. A significant percentage of our pilot group has other careers and skills that, combined with many of the soft skills with flying, are very transferable. But because flying is a specific skill set that is regulated, there is significant value in our pilots being unionized.

ALL of those 67% are making more than CEWS but have indeed taken pay cuts in this uncertain time.

Anyways, you've trolled, you got a rise out of some of us. Best of luck in your new position.
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

Let's continue this conversation when you get your facts right. The union drive did not result in a 30 million loss of revenue, that occurred at the end of the cool off period a year later. Remember, there are two groups at the negotiation table and the other side threatened to shut the airline down too.

I echo JBI. Best of luck in your new position.
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

JBI wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:49 am
NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:23 am

Of those 67% how many are on CEWS? You don't need a union for that.

My favourite part of your response is your first paragraph. Typical WestJet pilot speak. Look at me. I sacrificed so much. I spent all this money. I worked so hard to get to this point in my career. Like you and your group were the only ones at WestJet to sacrifice their personal lives, spend money on education etc etc. What a load!

Your union drive created incredible harm to the organization. All for what? You get 120 months of recall rights? So you don't have to groom? So you can get a 2 tier pay structure (good job on that one guys...)

In the end though...you've got those awesome transferable skills right? I mean...there is a massive demand for q400 type rated First Officers. :lol:
Unfortunately it seems one of your 'transferable skills' isn't reading comprehension. I specifically said that flying is a specific skill set. Perhaps I should have used smaller words or not used a compound sentence with multiple subjects and objects of prepositions. A significant percentage of our pilot group has other careers and skills that, combined with many of the soft skills with flying, are very transferable. But because flying is a specific skill set that is regulated, there is significant value in our pilots being unionized.

ALL of those 67% are making more than CEWS but have indeed taken pay cuts in this uncertain time.

Anyways, you've trolled, you got a rise out of some of us. Best of luck in your new position.
Trying to "own" me with sentence structure and grammar is fantastic. Even more so when I am able to count about a dozen mistakes. Stick to flying.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by RRJetPilot »

How sad of a life a person must have to not be a pilot yet spend his free time trolling pilots anonymously on a pilot centred online forum. :rolleyes:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sou ... 1116045214
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

RRJetPilot wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:08 am How sad of a life a person must have to not be a pilot yet spend his free time trolling pilots anonymously on a pilot centred online forum. :rolleyes:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sou ... 1116045214
:lol: CB has let himself go!
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FL410AV8R
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by FL410AV8R »

The number of MBAs and other business and/or management types that are responsible for airline failures far outweigh (by a huge factor) the number of failures that can be attributed to those holding pilot's licences. Corporate and financial mis-management are probably the number one cause of airline failures.

Enjoy your new job, hopefully in a non-union, non-airline environment. Buh bye!!!!
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sstaurus
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by sstaurus »

Management did their best to paint the pilots as the devil during negotiations and pit the rest of the employees against them. I think what we have here is an example of the brainwashing having its intended effect.
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Lpsi
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Lpsi »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am
lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:22 pm Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
Remember when you guys almost bankrupted the airline over Swoop? And then...Swoop still launched and nobody got profit share?

Remember the time ya'll screwed over Encore (solidarity my brothers)?

Remember the time you fought for a 2.5% salary increase only to give it all back in union dues?

Remember the time ya'll stopped grooming and in turn made the FA's do it while ya'll watched?


....you're right...I may never work for WJ again. However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.

:roll:

No Socks, No Shirt,...No Fkn Idea!

Honestly!

I’m very glad to read your post and learn that your gainfully employed again. Maybe back on your knees getting paid what your worth.

Carry on. Don’t let anyone here change you mind.
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Maxpwr
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Maxpwr »

[/quote]

Trying to "own" me with sentence structure and grammar is fantastic. Even more so when I am able to count about a dozen mistakes. Stick to flying.
[/quote]

LMAO. He didn’t “try” to own you. He DID own you. And BTW you lost the battle the second you showed up in a pilot centric forum as a sad loser wannabe but never was and tried to bitch to the people that have actually achieved something you likely only jerked off to on flight sim. Thanks for your opinions on pilot certification But no thanks because your opinion means exactly nothing to real pilots.
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Crusty
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Crusty »

NoSocks wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 am
lostaviator wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:22 pm Sure, whatever. I have 10 years to think about coming back to wj (if it lasts), retain my seniority, and not worry about my job being contracted out to Swissport. You are subject to the CLC and will probably never work for wj again. But hey, the union is horrible.
Remember when you guys almost bankrupted the airline over Swoop? And then...Swoop still launched and nobody got profit share?

Remember the time ya'll screwed over Encore (solidarity my brothers)?

Remember the time you fought for a 2.5% salary increase only to give it all back in union dues?

Remember the time ya'll stopped grooming and in turn made the FA's do it while ya'll watched?

....you're right...I may never work for WJ again. However, my skills are transferable. Yours aren't. In fact, I'm already working... I bet you're not ...but at least you have the union.

:roll:
Remember that time the pilot’s tried to stop the outsourcing of WestJet jobs to people who were willing to do it for less? Remember when nobody else gave a sh!t because “hey the company is growing and they’re earning profit share for us!”

Well the shoe is on the other foot now. You and your pay and benefits are too expensive for us. We can outsource your job and get it done a lot cheaper. But hey that’s great because the company will save a lot of money and it’s really great for us. When you get rehired as a contractor you’ll be earning profit share for me. You know what else? My slice of pie is going to be a lot bigger because there’s 3300 less people at the table.

*I’m not actually this terrible, I just don’t see how people are not making this connection. Swoop was the proof of concept here.
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