Will Westjet survive?

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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Yycjetdriver »

NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
KAG wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:00 pm
NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm

Management didn't try to paint pilots as the devil, ya'll did that when you lined the road on investors day. All that press scared off would be WJ flyers to our competition. Cost the organization millions. All for what? Seriously, what did the bottom 80% get out of this?

Calling me a bunch of names isn't very constructive and it just reinforces the narrative that the entire industry has of you. We succeed not because of you, rather in spite of you.

Sure, I may never work at WJ again, but ...it doesn't matter. I don't need 120 months of recall rights. I don't need that type of protection. I'm employable.

So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.

...and I'm the sheep?!

I'm employable...that's funny...we all are. Stop being a dick. Sure I have a skill set that outside aviation isnt directly transferable as let's be honest not to many other jobs are comparable to flying a plane. Not rocket science but not everyone can do it either.
As for not unionizing I was once anti union too, glad I signed a card...hows that working for you? If you were recalled after 6 months year 1 pay you would have gone. But instead they outsource your job, and you're still anti union....wow. yes you are a sheeple. I bet you're sympathetic to managements plight? Lol...get a life you fucking troll.
My job wasn't outsourced.

I'm sympathetic. Not just to the management, but to anyone who is going through both financial and career hardship.

Yup. Anti-Union. Your union is collecting union dues from members who are on CEWS! Scum. Complete Scum.
You keep avoiding the questions about what your career is and what makes you so employable. Either it’s a lie or your embarrassed about your “career”. There’s lots of jobs furloughed pilots could get tomorrow. But when the CEWS pays more what’s the point? Are they going to get a bottom of the barrel job making less money for the hell of it.... no.
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tbayav8er
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by tbayav8er »

I have transferrable skills too, but I'm happier having my seniority protected for 10 years upon layoff, and having recall rights to get me back into my career (resuming at my previously accumulated years of service once I am recalled) than using my transferable skills somewhere else and starting at square one.

Sorry to hear you lost your job, nosocks, but you are obviously not educated on the benefits of being unionized.
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
KAG wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:00 pm
NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm

Management didn't try to paint pilots as the devil, ya'll did that when you lined the road on investors day. All that press scared off would be WJ flyers to our competition. Cost the organization millions. All for what? Seriously, what did the bottom 80% get out of this?

Calling me a bunch of names isn't very constructive and it just reinforces the narrative that the entire industry has of you. We succeed not because of you, rather in spite of you.

Sure, I may never work at WJ again, but ...it doesn't matter. I don't need 120 months of recall rights. I don't need that type of protection. I'm employable.

So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.

...and I'm the sheep?!

I'm employable...that's funny...we all are. Stop being a dick. Sure I have a skill set that outside aviation isnt directly transferable as let's be honest not to many other jobs are comparable to flying a plane. Not rocket science but not everyone can do it either.
As for not unionizing I was once anti union too, glad I signed a card...hows that working for you? If you were recalled after 6 months year 1 pay you would have gone. But instead they outsource your job, and you're still anti union....wow. yes you are a sheeple. I bet you're sympathetic to managements plight? Lol...get a life you fucking troll.
My job wasn't outsourced.

I'm sympathetic. Not just to the management, but to anyone who is going through both financial and career hardship.

Yup. Anti-Union. Your union is collecting union dues from members who are on CEWS! Scum. Complete Scum.
Neither the company or the union control the definition of earnings/wage. It does sound kind of $hitty to collect dues etc on that, but you are also paying tax on that - it's a WAGE subsidy and you are an active employee while on the program. I believe that everyone affected was given the option of remaining on payroll (and on cews) or being laid off. If this is short term, then yes it sucks. But if this in longer term, I'm happy to pay union dues on CEWS and kick the EI can down the road. But that's me.

You (NoSocks) are obviously not a union supporter, and that's fine. I was on the fence for a long time as well, but the events of the last 12 months have reinforced my belief that we did make the right decision three years ago. The union is not perfect, but our own internal struggles are largely the reason for that.

WJ is a company, and you and I are a number. That's all there is to this relationship.
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Guilden
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Guilden »

No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops who got punted out of seniority because they weren't unionized. Albeit I feel for those guys/gals, but no need to come on here and slander the pilot group over unionization (which i'm gonna bet you wish you were now) I'm looking forward to call you again to clean the bug splatter off my windows again while I enjoy my McCafe. You certainly gave everyone a good laugh.
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Oscar
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Oscar »

sorry, wrong person.
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Last edited by Oscar on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

Oscar wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops
Negative

"NoSocks" is DH, ex-rewards analyst, a long time pilot hater with a history of trolling pilots on various social media platforms, particularly Yammer.
Negative. Although alarming that you have a "list" of pilot haters.
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

Guilden wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:02 am No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops who got punted out of seniority because they weren't unionized. Albeit I feel for those guys/gals, but no need to come on here and slander the pilot group over unionization (which i'm gonna bet you wish you were now) I'm looking forward to call you again to clean the bug splatter off my windows again while I enjoy my McCafe. You certainly gave everyone a good laugh.
We won't be cleaning the bug splatter off your windshield anytime soon. You won't be flying.
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lostaviator
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by lostaviator »

Oscar wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops
Negative

"NoSocks" is DH, ex-rewards analyst, a long time pilot hater with a history of trolling pilots on various social media platforms, particularly Yammer.
That makes sense. Only thing missing are the stupid animated pictures on every post.
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JBI
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by JBI »

NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.
NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
Yup. Anti-Union. Your union is collecting union dues from members who are on CEWS! Scum. Complete Scum.
A few clarifications are needed:

All the 700 laid off pilots are currently on CEWS and will be until the program's expiry date of August 29, 2020 (though it is possible that this will get extended). After that time, pilots who remain on lay-off will be required to apply for EI. This is the same as all other employees, presumably, including yourself.

The remaining 1600 pilots have all made concessions with reduced hours and ancillary pay, but are making more than just CEWS (though the company does receive a subsidy through the CEWS program).

Because the pilots currently on lay-off are receiving CEWS, they are being paid by the company. It is considered wages by the Government and pursuant to the Canada Labour Code, union dues MUST be deducted from wages. Such scum, following the laws and all...

Now, in NoSocks' defence, he is allowed to collect CEWS and work another job as long as the other employer is not receiving CEWS for his employment. That is allowed and we have some of our laid-off pilots doing that as well. But, for everyone, once the CEWS program ends (whether August 29 or a later date), once on EI, you have to declare all income and, a certain percentage of it will be deducted from your EI payments.

Anyways, hope that clarifies a few things. Apologies if there are multiple grammatical errors. To be fair, in all of my dozen or so written works that have been published, I spent considerably more time drafting and editing my work for my book and magazine articles than I have for any of these posts correcting an angry anonymous internet poster.
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tbayav8er
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by tbayav8er »

lostaviator wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Oscar wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops
Negative

"NoSocks" is DH, ex-rewards analyst, a long time pilot hater with a history of trolling pilots on various social media platforms, particularly Yammer.
That makes sense. Only thing missing are the stupid animated pictures on every post.
Ah yes. As I suspected.
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dialdriver
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by dialdriver »

Oscar wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops
Negative

"NoSocks" is DH, ex-rewards analyst, a long time pilot hater with a history of trolling pilots on various social media platforms, particularly Yammer.
Because you're a pilot, you've got it too easy and need to be punished.
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Sonic17
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Sonic17 »

That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

JBI wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:16 pm
NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.
NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm
Yup. Anti-Union. Your union is collecting union dues from members who are on CEWS! Scum. Complete Scum.
A few clarifications are needed:

All the 700 laid off pilots are currently on CEWS and will be until the program's expiry date of August 29, 2020 (though it is possible that this will get extended). After that time, pilots who remain on lay-off will be required to apply for EI. This is the same as all other employees, presumably, including yourself.

The remaining 1600 pilots have all made concessions with reduced hours and ancillary pay, but are making more than just CEWS (though the company does receive a subsidy through the CEWS program).

Because the pilots currently on lay-off are receiving CEWS, they are being paid by the company. It is considered wages by the Government and pursuant to the Canada Labour Code, union dues MUST be deducted from wages. Such scum, following the laws and all...

Now, in NoSocks' defence, he is allowed to collect CEWS and work another job as long as the other employer is not receiving CEWS for his employment. That is allowed and we have some of our laid-off pilots doing that as well. But, for everyone, once the CEWS program ends (whether August 29 or a later date), once on EI, you have to declare all income and, a certain percentage of it will be deducted from your EI payments.

Anyways, hope that clarifies a few things. Apologies if there are multiple grammatical errors. To be fair, in all of my dozen or so written works that have been published, I spent considerably more time drafting and editing my work for my book and magazine articles than I have for any of these posts correcting an angry anonymous internet poster.
A dozen published written works! A literary genius.
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JBI
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by JBI »

NoSocks wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 pm A dozen published written works! A literary genius.
Never said I was a literary genius. But you definitely are a piece of work. :smt056
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KAG
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by KAG »

JBI you're being too kind, nosocks is ....why bother, it just feeds some sick sense of whatever the @#$! fuels a troll.

Stay healthy all, and regardless of what nosicks predicts we'll be flying again soon.
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Oscar
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Oscar »

sorry nosocks / sonic for the name mixup.
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Mach1
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Mach1 »

NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pm I'm not collecting government assistance, WJ is. I get paycheck from WJ, not the government. Jeesus...and you're operating an aircraft?

I noticed you did not answer a single question asked of you. One can only conclude that you are incapable of giving an answer, choosing instead to attempt a personal insult at a rather childish level. That must be all you have, childish hate and vitriol.

I hope you never turned a wrench on anything that ever flew. The very thought is terrifying.
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Biff
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Biff »

NoSocks wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm
sstaurus wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:31 am Management did their best to paint the pilots as the devil during negotiations and pit the rest of the employees against them. I think what we have here is an example of the brainwashing having its intended effect.
Management didn't try to paint pilots as the devil, ya'll did that when you lined the road on investors day. All that press scared off would be WJ flyers to our competition. Cost the organization millions. All for what? Seriously, what did the bottom 80% get out of this?

Calling me a bunch of names isn't very constructive and it just reinforces the narrative that the entire industry has of you. We succeed not because of you, rather in spite of you.

Sure, I may never work at WJ again, but ...it doesn't matter. I don't need 120 months of recall rights. I don't need that type of protection. I'm employable.

So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.

...and I'm the sheep?!
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Bede
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Bede »

Sonic17 wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
Sonic,
I'm honestly curious your thoughts (and your office colleagues) on this whole 3333 permanent layoffs. The way I see it, this has little to do with Covid as WJ could have just kept these employees on layoff until recovery. To paraphrase Ed/Mark about the CSA's- they're just too expensive compared to contractors. Of course they want existing CSA's in those roles. Who wouldn't want to have employees with the skills demanding $20-$30/hr working at a job for $15-$20/hr, that they don't need to train. It's disingenuous for them to suggest that they want these employees in these roles to help them out.

I have a good job, and if WJ wants to come after me, well, I have a union to fight for me. But I always judge people based on how they treat the powerless; and in this case WJ management's actions are unforgivable. The very people who resisted unionization, took LOA's to help out- and now, this is how they're repaid.

I was once, like you, fervently anti-union. But as WJ started going after the CSA's, I knew that there was a change in philosophy and we required a union. The events seem to just strengthen my support for unionization.

Your thoughts?
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Sonic17
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Sonic17 »

Bede wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am
Sonic17 wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
Sonic,
I'm honestly curious your thoughts (and your office colleagues) on this whole 3333 permanent layoffs. The way I see it, this has little to do with Covid as WJ could have just kept these employees on layoff until recovery. To paraphrase Ed/Mark about the CSA's- they're just too expensive compared to contractors. Of course they want existing CSA's in those roles. Who wouldn't want to have employees with the skills demanding $20-$30/hr working at a job for $15-$20/hr, that they don't need to train. It's disingenuous for them to suggest that they want these employees in these roles to help them out.

I have a good job, and if WJ wants to come after me, well, I have a union to fight for me. But I always judge people based on how they treat the powerless; and in this case WJ management's actions are unforgivable. The very people who resisted unionization, took LOA's to help out- and now, this is how they're repaid.

I was once, like you, fervently anti-union. But as WJ started going after the CSA's, I knew that there was a change in philosophy and we required a union. The events seem to just strengthen my support for unionization.

Your thoughts?
I have some thoughts...

The minute ONEX swooped (teehee) in I expected the following;

1. TAC to be sold off/ shut down
2. Contracted airport staff
3. Encore to be sold off
4. Swoop to “rouge” more routes
5. Contact centre outsourced

So far I’m 2 for 5.

The colleagues I stay in touch with are very “pro WestJet”. They’ve been at the organization for many years (some are day 1’ers) some are dismayed at the approach the ELT are taking ... others are oblivious and believe the company can do no harm.

I’d like to believe I understand enough to know that this is a business and everyone is here to make a buck (even me) and sometimes at the expense of others (see current layoffs as an example).

I know exactly what is going to happen to me. My LOA will be turned permanent (probably in the coming weeks) and I’ll have to fight for severance (and to get my hockey stick back from the office). Looking for work in this climate with my skill set isn’t going to be easy (there are many unemployed people out there that do exactly what I do).

Everything kinda sucks at the moment.

Oh and I’m not anti- union by any means (I’m anti -a$$hole). I worked for the Feds/NavCan at one point in my career(PIPSC) and was laid off. The union insured I was well taken care of (84 weeks of salary). However, Unions sure do protect the mediocre.
(Edit : so many spelling mistakes—-)
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