WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

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mbav8r
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by mbav8r »

Jean-Pierre wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 pm Hopefully the government will claw back money from WestJet then because that is not really the intent of CEWS.
It actually is the intent, the employees stay on payroll, the company can top up but most have not. The inactive status of the employee keeps them ready for a quick spool up, looking like that won’t be needed but more importantly it keeps them off EI for now.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Yycjetdriver »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:41 pm
Jean-Pierre wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 pm Hopefully the government will claw back money from WestJet then because that is not really the intent of CEWS.
It actually is the intent, the employees stay on payroll, the company can top up but most have not. The inactive status of the employee keeps them ready for a quick spool up, looking like that won’t be needed but more importantly it keeps them off EI for now.
As far as the CEWS resulting in a quicker spool up that is incorrect. Those laid off but still receiving the CEWS there is zero change in regards for their spool up time. They’ve all received the same lay off paperwork, have been informed they will need to return certain company property(efb) and obviously will not keep current. As far as the company is concerned the employees status as laid off has not changed.
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7dirty7
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by 7dirty7 »

hurtin'albertan wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:12 pm
Blue42 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:53 pm
hurtin'albertan wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:17 pm

No fuckin shit! Seems like guys just want to whine for the sake of whining. The email (with details) is out btw.
That’s why they unionized!!! :lol:
Funny. Seems like most of the whining these days is from the "me! me! me!" anti-alpa crowd.

WB capts at top of the scale calling for repeal of YOS, funny how they upgraded in 12-18 months back in the day, and keeping their 77.5mmg to sit at home for the summer while others hit the pogey line or take "one for the team".

Fucking disgusting. But it's aviation I guess and its why this profession will never change cause you will always have some (not all to be fair) old guys who say "I put in my time screw you n00bz"
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7dirty7
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by 7dirty7 »

Furloughed wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:16 pm jjj: I admit I am not pro-alpa. and no, my butt is not hurting. This was never about Pro or Against Alpa, It was about saving jobs. I am very happy that a lot of jobs losses were mitigated and that a lot of my friends and colleagues will be able to pay their mortgages. That's all this was ever about.

I am still laid off and I am fine with that, it's how seniority works and I have zero issue with it, welcome to aviation, not my first time in this position and probably not my last. My issue was the lack of communication and what was in my opinion this childish mantra of "hold the line". In the current Pandemic situation and how the aviation industry around the entire world has literally been decimated, I couldn't grasp the idea of thinking we should give zero concessions. It just was not feasible by a long shot. I also knew there was no way it was acceptable to have the top few pilots keep 100% of everything, and 1700 pilots get absolutely nothing. I knew there had to be a middle ground where the pain was shared by all and most people could still pay their bills. That has now happened, and I thank the NC for overlooking the Survey and coming to an end result that means 850 people should be sleeping easier tonight then they were last night.
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Launchpad1
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Launchpad1 »

Here's a question for anyone who might know,

Those of us that have been laid off but are on the company payroll for CEWS purposes get 75% of our salary. Does the fact that the mmg has temporarily gone down to 55 hours mean we will receive less on the CEWS?

I.e 75% of 55 hours instead of 75% of 75 hours.
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rudder
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by rudder »

Launchpad1 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 5:54 am Here's a question for anyone who might know,

Those of us that have been laid off but are on the company payroll for CEWS purposes get 75% of our salary. Does the fact that the mmg has temporarily gone down to 55 hours mean we will receive less on the CEWS?

I.e 75% of 55 hours instead of 75% of 75 hours.
The CEWS calculation is based on average weekly earnings prior to March 15.

Work sharing agreements therefore do not reduce CEWS compensation.
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carnie
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by carnie »

To clarify the CEWS covers 75% to a maximum of 58700. So essentially, the maximum you can take home is the equivalent of 44000 or 847per week minus EI/CPP/income tax.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Yycjetdriver »

AME92 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:49 pm Not a pilot, but part of an employee group that is extremely busy taking care of the Jets while they are not flying.

Here's to hoping other departments do not have to lose more people now that 1000 of you are saved!
No need to be concerned about that, the company comes out ahead in this deal.... as usual. The pilots took the concessions and saved the company ten’s of millions on training cost’s.
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learcapt
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by learcapt »

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Launchpad1
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Launchpad1 »

Thanks for the info rudder and carnie, appreciate it.
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Red1
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Red1 »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
AME92 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:49 pm Not a pilot, but part of an employee group that is extremely busy taking care of the Jets while they are not flying.

Here's to hoping other departments do not have to lose more people now that 1000 of you are saved!
No need to be concerned about that, the company comes out ahead in this deal.... as usual. The pilots took the concessions and saved the company ten’s of millions on training cost’s.
We also saved around a 1000 jobs,and stopped half the company from commuting. Sounds not bad.
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hurtin'albertan
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by hurtin'albertan »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
AME92 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:49 pm Not a pilot, but part of an employee group that is extremely busy taking care of the Jets while they are not flying.

Here's to hoping other departments do not have to lose more people now that 1000 of you are saved!
No need to be concerned about that, the company comes out ahead in this deal.... as usual. The pilots took the concessions and saved the company ten’s of millions on training cost’s.
Really. The company came out ahead? Do the math: How many hours did you actually fly an airplane in April? What are you sked for in May? Does that equal 77.5 hours? + 20% esp? Does it even equal 55? It doesn't for me. The day if any that you flew, how many people were on your airplane? They are paying more pilots than needed to sit around for more hours than needed. I would wager pilot payroll is in the top 5 biggest cost to the company right now since fuel is taking a dump and WE AREN'T FLYING AIRPLANES.

Should you get paid full pay to sit around? Sounds good, so would I. Until the company or onex says f that and throws the bankruptcy flag onto the field and then have fun when the judges rout the contract. Seen that movie before.

I'm a strong union guy, make no mistake. Sure I'd like to been able vote on this thing, but take a look around at everyone else. I think our reps did a decent job considering what our industry and the world are up against with no clear end date in sight except maybe a vaccine in a year or two. Let's hope this is over sooner somehow.

Oct 1 we go back to the contract.
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Last edited by hurtin'albertan on Sat May 02, 2020 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Guilden
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Guilden »

Red1,

We sure did.. but also created a significant amount of commuting (senior FO's west to east losing pay for hotels and or crash pads) and loss of position at lower wages. Some folk took losses of up to 70%..They could have made more staying home being with their families making same if not more. Times are tough, I get it. But this could have been handled much better with lets say... A VOTE. Don't shoot the messenger but a lot of pissed off people from top to bottom with the lack of communication we've gotten throughout this. On a side note it seems unreasonable to me for a 5-10 year Jet pilot whose paid his dues and earned his pride in this industry to go back to Navajo pay 10 years ago on a recall to what we call Swoop, after he's picked up garbage and went beyond means for so many years thinking he was respected the whole time.
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Red1
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Red1 »

Guilden wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 12:22 am Red1,

We sure did.. but also created a significant amount of commuting (senior FO's west to east losing pay for hotels and or crash pads) and loss of position at lower wages. Some folk took losses of up to 70%..They could have made more staying home being with their families making same if not more. Times are tough, I get it. But this could have been handled much better with lets say... A VOTE. Don't shoot the messenger but a lot of pissed off people from top to bottom with the lack of communication we've gotten throughout this. On a side note it seems unreasonable to me for a 5-10 year Jet pilot whose paid his dues and earned his pride in this industry to go back to Navajo pay 10 years ago on a recall to what we call Swoop, after he's picked up garbage and went beyond means for so many years thinking he was respected the whole time.
When I look at the numbers I see a lot more people holding on to their current positions, and a lot of other pilots who were to be furloughed in June staying as well. That's a lot less commuting than the original bid. Yes some pilots who were to be furloughed as captains in June will take a hit, but they now keep a job. Which in about 20 weeks time will be better than no job and ei. Should it have gone to a vote, sure, but its done.
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George Taylor
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by George Taylor »

You have to ask yourself which way was cheaper for the company? The current PSB with 1700 layoffs or this new scheme and new PSB bid. Whichever one was the cheaper option came at the expense of the pilots.
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by learcapt »

Guilden,

"Some folk took losses of up to 70%..They could have made more staying home being with their families making same if not more."

So bid to be laid off if thats the case. Cant have it both ways. Guys bitching about the 70 percent pay cut are the ones that in all likely hood answered the APLA questionnaire to keep as much money as possible at the expense of many layoffs of guys below them.
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lostaviator
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by lostaviator »

All these “sit at home and get paid more” comments have not been thought out properly.

Lay-off pay is a one time thing.

CEWS ends June 6. CERB will end at some point too.

EI is only 500 or so a week and expires, and there’s no flying jobs out there.

Kids need dental work after benefits expire in 90 days? There goes a month of your sit at home EI pay.

The sit at home scenario only works out if the industry returns to normal by Q4. How confident are you in that happening and having a job by then?

When you get recalled, you’ll probably be commuting anyway as the junior guy and holding full reserve for 18 days. That’s if you get recalled because everyone on property will be working max overtime (as we always have done around here).

The senior guys will be fine. We are the only “international” airline that lets you keep flying (in your left seat) past 65. Their lost wages over the period of the moa can be recouped in a few months. I’ll support last pay to the last day in exchange for 65 retirement age. Deal?
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by Yycjetdriver »

lostaviator wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 am The senior guys will be fine. We are the only “international” airline that lets you keep flying (in your left seat) past 65. Their lost wages over the period of the moa can be recouped in a few months. I’ll support last pay to the last day in exchange for 65 retirement age. Deal?
This statement isn’t something to be proud of. The fact Westjet is the only “international” airline to “allow” pilots to fly past 65 says something about the WAWCON. Who needs to worry about a comfortable retirement, just flying till you die....
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lostaviator
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by lostaviator »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:22 am
lostaviator wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 am The senior guys will be fine. We are the only “international” airline that lets you keep flying (in your left seat) past 65. Their lost wages over the period of the moa can be recouped in a few months. I’ll support last pay to the last day in exchange for 65 retirement age. Deal?
This statement isn’t something to be proud of. The fact Westjet is the only “international” airline to “allow” pilots to fly past 65 says something about the WAWCON. Who needs to worry about a comfortable retirement, just flying till you die....
It’s all part of the ESPP scheme. It’s actually quite brilliant (from a business owner perspective). Call someone an owner, and create a system that results in a 200k per year individual living on an income comparable to a university student. Work them til they die, or until the total OT cost outweighs the static cost of a new pilot. Brilliant.
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Re: WS/WO Layoff Mitigation Agreement

Post by flyinhigh »

Depends on how the LOU for the CEWS is written.

Also, it's 75% of salary to a maximum of $847 per week, therefore if you make anything over 70K you'll only get the $847.
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