Clives, Where are you???

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Blastor
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Clives, Where are you???

Post by Blastor »

Clives, has been telling (brain washing?) Westjet employees over and over again, on how Air Canada, the evil empire, will cease to exist soon. He predicted the end for early December 2003. Hmmmmmm!

Check this out Clive:
Air Canada reaches deals with six unions
CTV.ca News Staff

Air Canada has reached tentative agreements with six of its nine unions -- a development crucial for the company's new restructuring plan.

The five key unions involved include the union representing Air Canadian pilots, two unions at the airline's regional carrier, Jazz, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and the Canadian Airline Dispatchers Association.

The airline and its unions have been holding marathon talks since Saturday. Deals with three unions were finalized around 3 a.m. ET Sunday, with a fourth union signing on at about 4 a.m. ET.

A fifth and sixth union signed agreements late Sunday morning. Details of the deals are being kept confidential until members have an opportunity to review them.

Talks continue with three other unions -- the CAW at Jazz and Air Canada and CUPE.

Air Canada spokesman John Reber says flights will continue as usual Sunday, regardless of the progress of the talks.

"It's definitely business as usual, as it has been throughout the whole restructuring process,'' he says.

The deals are crucial to the airline's future. Two of Air Canada's major financers have threatened to withdraw funds unless the airline finds ways to trim about $200 million in annual costs.

Germany's Deutsche Bank agreed back in April to underwrite an Air Canada share offering worth $850 million, contingent on the outcome of these talks. GE Capital Aviation Services has also offered restructuring financing worth $1.5 billion US.

On Friday, the airline reached an agreement with the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions on terms for paying off its pension fund deficit. Under that agreement, Air Canada will pay down its $1.2 billion pension deficit over 10 years, rather than over the previously-allowed maximum five years.

Air Canada has been under extended bankruptcy protection through the Companies Creditors Arrangement Act since April 1, 2003. The Montreal-based airline employs about 33,000 full-time staff.
BTW Clives, how's the two lawsuit coming along..?

I guess you'll have to raise your fare again..
.
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just curious
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Post by just curious »

Talks continue with three other unions -- the CAW at Jazz and Air Canada and CUPE
Aye, and there's the rub. If these last groups don't get it together, there'll be huge volumes of Air Canada Stuff for sale in Ebay's Collectable section.

Timing might be off, but given CAW's historic lack of flexibility, Clive might be right...after all
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

Air Canada, flight attendants reach deal
CTV.ca News Staff

Air Canada's flight attendants have agreed to wage cuts in order to help the airline slash costs, but representatives for the lone holdout union -- the Canadian Auto Workers -- say they won't take a pay cut.

Pamela Sachs, president of the Air Canada component of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, confirmed the tentative agreement at around noon ET Monday.

"It's going to be painful for our members" but necessary "in order to help the airline go forward," Sachs said.

Two CAW units are now the last two unions at the bargaining table, and with representatives saying they won't accept a $10,000 salary cut, a deal could be hard to come by.

"Most of our members are calling us saying, 'Listen, we've given once, we've given twice, we've given enough. Sooner or later, this has to stop,'" Gary Fane, a CAW representative, told Canada AM.

But he added that his union is still prepared to try to find a solution, saying talks would continue "all day, probably all night."

Air Canada is looking to save $200 million a year in labour costs, but CAW president Buzz Hargrove says his union can't agree to the wage concessions because the airline can afford to maintain current salary levels.

"I'm not an investor, I represent working people," Hargrove said Sunday. "But I do know this, Air Canada has 60 per cent of the domestic market, they have 90 per cent of the international market, they have a billion dollars in cash, they have a billion dollars in concessions from the workers."

Over the weekend Air Canada struck deals with the union representing its pilots, two unions at its regional carrier, Jazz, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and the Canadian Airline Dispatchers Association.

Deals with three unions were finalized around 3 a.m. ET Sunday, with a fourth union signing on at about 4 a.m. ET.

A fifth and sixth union signed agreements late Sunday morning. Details of the deals are being kept confidential until members have an opportunity to review them.

Until a deal with the holdouts is reached, Air Canada spokesperson John Reber says flights will continue as usual, regardless of the progress of the talks.

"It's definitely business as usual, as it has been throughout the whole restructuring process," he said.

The deals are crucial to the airline's future. Two of Air Canada's major financiers have threatened to withdraw funds unless the airline finds ways to trim about $200 million in annual costs.

Germany's Deutsche Bank agreed back in April to underwrite an Air Canada share offering worth $850 million, contingent on the outcome of these talks. GE Capital Aviation Services has also offered restructuring financing worth $1.5 billion US.

On Friday, the airline reached an agreement with the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions on terms for paying off its pension fund deficit. Under that agreement, Air Canada will pay down its $1.2 billion pension deficit over 10 years, rather than over the previously-allowed maximum five years.

Air Canada has been under extended bankruptcy protection through the Companies Creditors Arrangement Act since April 1, 2003. The Montreal-based airline employs about 33,000 full-time staff.
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

I think Clive and WJ should be careful for what they wish for.

Right now they are the antithesis of everything AC. Since most see AC as 'bad', then naturally WJ is 'good'.

If AC goes away then the spotlight will be focused squarely on WJ. Since folks seem to like to kick the big guy around and that would then be WJ, they would feel more heat than they ever have thus far.

Being the underdog has suited WJ nicely, being topdog is a very different position.
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Flightlevels
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Post by Flightlevels »

OK, blaster, I'll bite....whats your beef with Westjet and thier pilots/fares and wages? I gave you a pm on a contact number did you call them? I offered to get some answers for you but you don't want to take me up? Alot of people don't realize that the fares before jetsgo and westjet came along on any route served by either Air Can or Canadian were on average 20 to 30 percent higher. a good example was a monopoly route like Sault Ste Marie. when westjet started going in there Air Can last minute fare was over 600 dollars WJ was half... then all of a sudden AC decided to match or beat the fare. That is what you are seeing everywhere now.only the fittest make a small dollar. We barely made a profit with our low overhead this last quarter. We were 4.5 million over budget in fuel alone in January! things have changed costs do go up...unfortunately it is all outside costs going up..ie nav canada, landing fees, etc....and who absorbs them you the consumer... Our internal cost are constantly going down and I could tell you how but it would take too long...I can pm you later if you like. I had to laugh at your comment on a cat 2 landing then picking up garbage.... A cat 2 autoland is easier than a non precicion at big trout lake in NW ontario!!! and saving company money is a non event as we all chip in to help clean the plane, and make our company viable. I'm not sure on your wage thing either. I came from the Air Canada side and I have not been happier. I upgraded onto the 700 in less than tw0 years made over 100 g's in less than 3 yrs andhaven't looked back. even if ithe profit share and options were gone...my base pay brings me over 100 grand in another couple years.(is that still not enough for you?) don't forget that the company still matches up to 20 percent of my pay in stock...say the base is 70 g's you are putting away 30 thousand dollars a year even if the stock is 50 cents!!!can you do that? you just get more stock. I was talking with a captain that has been here 7 years...his T4 was over 600,000.00 last year in 2003. not bad eh? mine wasn't that good but well on it's way. We take things seriously here and safety isn't compromised. We are given all the tools ie RNP HUDS enhanced terrain warning etc... but hey if you don't like flying with us thats ok....but grow up and stop throwing mud. thanks for your time in reading this Blastman.
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Snow Monkey
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Post by Snow Monkey »

Well put Flight Levels
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just curious
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Post by just curious »

Actually I was kinda hoping he'd fly with you, so he didn't have to fly with us. :lol:
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

Flightlevels Posted:
OK, blaster, I'll bite....whats your beef with Westjet and thier pilots/fares and wages?
You can start by spelling my name right

My beef? False advertising
Wages? please quote me on that. I don't know what you're talking about
Pilots? Are you making allusion to my comments about picking-up garbage? Yes! Not for me. My opinion. Period
I gave you a pm on a contact number did you call them?
Never got a pm from you. If you have something to say, say it here.
I offered to get some answers for you but you don't want to take me up?
Offer? Answers? Again, if you have something to say, make it public. BTW Will you give me a refund?
Alot of people don't realize that the fares before jetsgo and westjet came along on any route served by either Air Can or Canadian were on average 20 to 30 percent higher.
A lot of Westjet employees don’t realised that Westjet is turning into a higher fare (regular) airline and into [somewhat] a monopoly in certain areas. Where’s the great fares that Westjet was made famous for? Where is the airline that championed the cause of the "normal" folks?? Haven’t seen it lately…
a good example was a monopoly route like Sault Ste Marie.
Westjet stop (abandoned?) that route last year.
when westjet started going in there Air Can last minute fare was over 600 dollars WJ was half... then all of a sudden AC decided to match or beat the fare. That is what you are seeing everywhere now.only the fittest make a small dollar.
That's called competition
We barely made a profit with our low overhead this last quarter. We were 4.5 million over budget in fuel alone in January!
As a passenger I don't care that you "barely made a profit" Fuel price affects everyone. Not just Westjet
things have changed costs do go up...unfortunately it is all outside costs going up..ie nav canada, landing fees, etc....and who absorbs them you the consumer...
It's the same "playing field" for Jetsgo, Canjet, Zip and Air Canada. Furthermore you didn't start with a huge debt left over by the gracious Federal Gov.
Our internal cost are constantly going down and I could tell you how but it would take too long...I can pm you later if you like.
By paying 80% of ½. You know what I mean: Take the lowest paid employee in the industry and take the highest paid employee in the same industry for the same job, take the middle pay-range and pay your employee 80% of that. That's one way to keep cost down. That's your business. Good for ya if that works.
I had to laugh at your comment on a cat 2 landing then picking up garbage.... A cat 2 autoland is easier than a non precicion at big trout lake in NW ontario!!!
I had to cry (no, not really) when I learn that the captain was going to pick up garbage after shooting minima’s all day...no offense but it reminded me of a small charter operation I used to fly for.....

I don't know about you, but I don't care how easy it sounds or looks, I take every approaches seriously. Period.
and saving company money is a non event as we all chip in to help clean the plane, and make our company viable.
"Squeezing the lemon" as my neighbour would say..
I'm not sure on your wage thing either.
I'm not sure what you talking about either. please quote the comments.
I came from the Air Canada side and I have not been happier.
Anyone moving from a company that's almost bankrupt to a company that's not would feel the same.
I upgraded onto the 700 in less than tw0 years made over 100 g's in less than 3 yrs and haven't looked back
Good for ya.
. even if ithe profit share and options were gone...my base pay brings me over 100 grand in another couple years.
So, how much is "base pay" at Westjet? I'll check it out myself..
(is that still not enough for you?)
I didn't know we were debating wages(?) but just for the record I don't care how much you make . ......and my dad is stronger then yours!
don't forget that the company still matches up to 20 percent of my pay in stock...say the base is 70 g's you are putting away 30 thousand dollars a year even if the stock is 50 cents!!!can you do that?
Actually I do! Not 20% mind you, but high enough for my needs.
I was talking with a captain that has been here 7 years...his T4 was over 600,000.00 last year in 2003. not bad eh?
That's for a Captain that's been with Westjet for 7 years? And Westjet started 8 years ago? With all the goodies you're flashing about, I thought he would be a multi-millionaire by now...
We take things seriously here and safety isn't compromised.
Show me an airline that doesn't! (and lets talk to MOT)
We are given all the tools ie RNP HUDS enhanced terrain warning etc...
Whatever you need to get me home safely. I expect no less.
but hey if you don't like flying with us thats ok....
Is it? Thanks!
but grow up and stop throwing mud.
Why would I stop "throwing mud" ?? as you call it.
Will it affect your profit-share? Your WJA stock?
thanks for your time in reading this Blastman.
Thanks for you time reading this too.

BTW are you sure you're a pilot? I don't think so. You got my name wrong twice. You could have gone to the first topic, read it, and at the same time get my name right....

:twisted: :wink: :twisted:
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

.........and Flightlevels, this is to refresh your memory: The original topic.

You're welcome

Clives, has been telling (brain washing?) Westjet employees over and over again, on how Air Canada, the evil empire, will cease to exist soon. He predicted the end for early December 2003. Hmmmmmm!
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Flightlevels
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Post by Flightlevels »

Blast..I am simply responding to ALL your westjet slagging posts, which are scattered around the forum. All your responses are those of an uninformed person. You lack the deeper understanding and history of fares and what costs have grown with and become a part of over the years. Can you still buy a house for the same price as 5yrs ago? Prices do go up.for example we had a fuel hedge that was cheap and the savings were passed on to the consumer. You are not threatening to our company or stock. I pm'd you a tel num for our customer care dept. for your complaint here it is again,
1877 952 2737 (have your file number ready)or I asked you to give me your details via PM and I would look after it myself. your choice. I could sit back and go over each detail you responded to, but again you are so misinformed on westjets policies ie. pulling out of a market where we don't make money, like Sault,(why would you stay if nobody supports it?)you totally missed the point of what I was getting at. Not sure what your motive is, but you are certainly a discredit to this industry in your posts. Did we turn you down in a position here at westjet....again if you have been, or want to listen to the airline analysts...all, every one of your questions, are answered, from why fares are what they are today... to how much money it saves westjet to pick up garbage. All you are telling the forum is you cry like a baby, you have a poor work ethic and you want to be noticed as a pilot(which I'm only assuming you are) and I'm cheap.FL.
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Last edited by Flightlevels on Wed May 19, 2004 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flightlevels
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Post by Flightlevels »

Blast..BTW where is your link for the "Clive said that AC will cease to exist" I have not ever heard him say that directly other than they will be downsizing considerably in the domestic scene and they will never go under fully. I would like to read it if you have the time.thanks FL.
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

You know how the saying goes, right? “Don’t bite the hand that's feeding you"

The "hand" is the passengers (me! not anymore of course)
If you bite the "hand", then eventually no more profit share, no more profit... You'll end up like big red.

As an example (again) you could fly to YLW from YYC for roughly $275.00 return. Now the lowest fare is about $475.00 return. Hmmmmm!

Numerous Westjet people live around this area. I 've been told by more then one what Clive has said about AC at you Cheerleading meetings.....I'm not impressed.
I pm'd you a tel num for our customer care dept. for your complaint here it is again,
Still haven’t received it. No surprises, since you can’t spell my name.
Too late anyways, been there done that.....

BTW It’s not by spelling my name wrong, or to minimize my statements, or to try to ridiculed my comments that I’ll change my mind. My comments obviously struck a “nerve” with you. You feel threaten? That’s too bad. No, not really I don’t care of course.

Keep in mind that my ”mud slaying” is moderate and I didn’t attack you personally. You on the other hands are going in that direction, so I might review how I response to you………..

You don't like what I say? Tuff! You know what? Don't read it
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Last edited by Blastor on Wed May 19, 2004 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flightlevels
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Post by Flightlevels »

lol...
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

Flightlevels:

I know a person that works in Flight Ops at the YYC Hangar. I could have him looked you up. What's your initials? ID?

Maybe we could set-up something and discuss this more........ :wink:
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Go Guns
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Post by Go Guns »

Blastor,

It does appear that you come online simply to bitch and whine, and mostly about Westjet. You know what?, nobody is forcing you to fly on them. If you think you're paying to much, start your own airline and we'll see if you can do it better.
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Flight Levels

Post by wrc »

My guess is that that guy is a light twin or Cessna guy whos bent that he didnt get a reply to his application. I wouldn't take him seriously.

A lot of people have misquated Clive however, on the Air Canada thing so I can see where he might of picked up a currupted version of the speech.

Clive never said WJ would bring Air Canada to it's knees. What he said was that "Air Canada's cost structure would bring it to it's knees by year's end (2003)". He was correct, they became insolvent in 2003. He meant that trying to match WestJet's fares without dealing with their costs will sink them, which is of course, correct.

The guys other points are just the usual nonsence floating around on ramps from Prince Rupert to Goose Bay by that type.
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Blastor
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Post by Blastor »

:roll:
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