Brainwashed WestJet pilots

Machiavelli · Post by **Machiavelli** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:47 am

Hadji,

Did you not just re-say what I said?

"The difference between the value when exercised and when sold is treated as capital and is subject to capital gains tax."

vs.

"...amount of tax paid on an option is lower that what you pay for your salary in income tax. Options are equity and are thus taxed as a capital gain."

The one thing that I should have said was "options can be equity", not "options are equity".

What am I missing?

1900guy · Post by **1900guy** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:04 am

[/quote]Well if Brainwashed means:

1. Your employer treats you like a human being
2. You fly the newest fleet in North America
[quote]

Regarding #2 here;

I guess the EMJ, the B777 and the Dreamliner which is coming don't count eh!

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:38 am

"newest fleet" doesn't mean a couple of new planes. it means the average age of the entire fleet is the newest in north america.

1900guy · Post by **1900guy** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:17 am

Just a 'couple' new airplanes eh! Might want to check your numbers on how many of each are coming are coming. (More in fact than the entire WestJet fleet)
I guess by your count, any startup company that buys ONE new airplane can put in the claim for the 'Newest Fleet in North America!'

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:31 am

really! and do i need to explain the difference between 'ordered' and 'delivered' next?

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:16 am

[

Regarding #2 here;

I guess the EMJ, the B777 and the Dreamliner which is coming don't count eh![/quote]

AC is parking the 340 but also needs to park the older A320's and the old 767's, then it will have a new fleet, maybe the newest.

Tiny Voices · Post by **Tiny Voices** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:08 am

As nice as it is to fly new airplanes, i find point #1 to be by far more important in the measure of my job satisfaction!

Armi · Post by **Armi** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:22 am

interesting conversations. i enjoyed reading them, and i should say that i learned a lot from it.

Hadji Ramjet · Post by **Hadji Ramjet** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:52 am

No Machiavelli, it was not the same thing. You said, "Options are equity and are thus taxed as a capital gain." That is quite incorrect. Excercising an option never triggers a capital gain. Exercising an option is not the same as selling a share. So, to be specific:
a) the difference between strike price and fair market value at the point of exercise is income; and
b) the difference between the value at exercising and selling is capital.

While the net effect to you may be the same as if both were treated as capital, if you file your T1 that way CCRA may crawl up your butt and reside there for awhile.

Localizer · Post by **Localizer** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:01 am

Its funny to read this .. talking about making life better for others and all. Its all really sweet ... but you don't mean it. Lets be a "little" honest. Everyone cares about number 1 and thats about it. If you really cared about more that yourselves you wouldn't be fighting your own (Jazz Pilots) for airplanes that bring down your salaries, and you wouldn't be fighting to keep them out of "your" airline.

There is a better flow thru agreement between WestJet and Jazz than LOU-18 would ever allow.

Tube Driver · Post by **Tube Driver** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:06 pm

What about adding to your list FAs provided as fringe benefits ie play things.

JohnnyHotRocks · Post by **JohnnyHotRocks** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:43 pm

This thread pretty much sums up what is wrong with aviation in Canada...no wonder we all get screwed...apparently pilots are their own worst ememies...

go-around · Post by **go-around** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:03 am

Legacy wrote:Well you cant really go by paycheck. To get a better overall picture you would have to go by T4's. A 10 year 320 pilot gets about 147K T4 slip while the WJ pilot would get about 173K T4 slip. These are based on 75 hrs per month. Keep in mind that the WJ pilot includes the 20% ESP contributions. Gotta tuck some of that money away for retirement. Include more $$ for profit sharing and stock options (if the stocks do well). In the LONG run I think the WJ pilot would do a bit better but really who cares. The BIG thing is who wakes up after 20 years and still likes going to work. THAT is the most important.

$173K T4 slip for a 10 year WJ pilot - Are these numbers accurate? What is a realistic T4 for, say, a 5 year F/O?

go-around · Post by **go-around** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:03 am

Sorry ... Double Post.

Machiavelli · Post by **Machiavelli** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:28 am

You can start with this:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines ... stjet.html

The math for a 10-year Captain looks like this:

Salary @ $160/hour X 80 hour minimum X 12 months = $153600
Employee Share Purchase Plan = $30720
Option Grant = $10298
Profit Sharing =?
=$194618+?

5th year F/O:

Salary @ $89/hour X 80 hour minimum X 12 months = $85440
Employee Share Purchase Plan = $17088
Option Grant = $7312
Profit Sharing =?
=$109840+?

The option grant is an estimated value- it's an average over time and could actually be worth far more or far less. The profit share is a bonus and over the past few years it's been worth something. We get two cheques per year, one in May and one in November. For 2007, total profit sharing should be worth about 8-9% of salary so around $12000 for the captain and $7000 for the f/o. This would bring the captain up to $206,000 and the f/o to $117,000. Check back November 23rd for more accurate numbers.

If you're comparing to anybody else you have to remember that at WestJet there's no pension and the benefits coverage we have under Sunlife sucks. I understand the benefits coverage is under review so hopefully that'll improve. The Employee Share Purchase Plan is your own self-directed pension plan. It's up to you to manage your own money.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:19 am

Word from the top is that November's profit share will be much like 2000 (for those of you who were here then).

Legacy · Post by **Legacy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:53 am

If I heard correctly, the 2000 year had outstanding profit sharing cheques. I am pretty optimistic but to tell you the truth I cant see this one being as good. Wasnt that the year that captains got 17000 bucks (gross). No way this November cheque will be that good. We have too many people to go around now.

Ryan Coke2 · Post by **Ryan Coke2** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:53 am

Just had to note that even for 'sunlife sucking', it is almost as good as Jazz's benefits, and better in some areas, except we pay less for it.

But yes, apparently it is also up for improvement.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:06 am

Now how long on average does it take someone to get to WJA these days?

5Years? 10 years?

How long of a career will most people get with WJA? Will people see a full 35?

mulligan · Post by **mulligan** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:50 am

Bless the cheerleaders....always there to brighten up the day!

Brainwashed WestJet pilots

comparison debate.

YAY team!!!