the new agreement

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Rotten Apple #1
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the new agreement

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

If someone asked me, I'd be willing to work under the existing terms of our agreement for another year.

Although that could be a knee jerk reaction to the continuous flood of negative financial headlines.
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neophyte
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Re: the new agreement

Post by neophyte »

So there is nothing you feel that could be changed? There is nothing that management could offer (that wouldn't affect our bottom line) that you would like the pilot group to negotiate?

Our agreement is good, real good, but even good things can get better.

Neo
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

The post had nothing to do with what I want going forward.

The conventional wisdom is that LCC's fare better than the rest in declining economic environments. Unfortunately what has developed, and will develop is unfamiliar territory.

Perhaps we could wait a year to see what the fall out is economically.

That's all.
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daveg
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Re: the new agreement

Post by daveg »

Im with you on that as well Jonny.
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Biff
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Biff »

Perhaps as a measure of goodwill, the executives could also revert back to their old wage scale, of two years ago.
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CanadaEH
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Re: the new agreement

Post by CanadaEH »

Perhaps as a measure of goodwill, the executives could also revert back to their old wage scale, of two years ago.
What was that? And what would 'reverting' back to it do for you or the Company?

I'm perfectly fine with the way our executives are compensated.
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neophyte
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Re: the new agreement

Post by neophyte »

Sorry Johnny, I am not following you. (It is known that I am a little slow) If you are not looking forward then why would you want to wait a year for different economic times.

For what it's worth, I could stick with the current agreement for a while as well.

What was the old agreement like? Am I correct in understanding that the cash was higher while the options were less?

Please forgive me, I am new.

Neo
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Neo, sorry about the thinness of my post. I was rushed.

The last agreement had more "options" (the financial instrument kind, and lot's less cash.

Going into potentially decreasing revenues/profits, is not exactly the best time to negotiate. However if our wjpa guys figger it can be donen have at er.
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WJ700
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Re: the new agreement

Post by WJ700 »

I'm not out so much for myself on this but I want to see our FO's in year 1 and 2 brought above the poverty line as a number 1 priority. As for the rest... well, fix the benefits and I'll be content for a while. :D
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KAG
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Re: the new agreement

Post by KAG »

If we do anything that is going to have any impact over the next year or more, I hope it includes a 0% stock option - even though I'd jump all over a $10 strike price!!!
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Herc_Driver »

WJ700 wrote: ...... but I want to see our FO's in year 1 and 2 brought above the poverty line as a number 1 priority. ....
Many thanks - that would be nice. It would be a real pleasure to see WestJet become a trend setter and lead the way by moving away from this trend of the "two year penalty pay".

Here's hoping, and wishing.

Cheers
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lien
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Re: the new agreement

Post by lien »

WJ700
I also think that year 1 and 2 are not great pay scales, but I would rather worry about a 6 or 7 year FO coming over at year 1 pay scale for Capt. I believe that F/0's should carry over at least half years of service to Captain wage (year 6 F/O comes over at year 3 Capt.) . When guys were going Capt. after 12 to 18 months it wasn't a big deal but now new F/O could wait a long while(5,6,7 years?) to go Captain!! I think this is a lot more important!

Just my two cents! :D
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Re: the new agreement

Post by CanadaEH »

WJ700
I also think that year 1 and 2 are not great pay scales, but I would rather worry about a 6 or 7 year FO coming over at year 1 pay scale for Capt. I believe that F/0's should carry over at least half years of service to Captain wage (year 6 F/O comes over at year 3 Capt.) . When guys were going Capt. after 12 to 18 months it wasn't a big deal but now new F/O could wait a long while(5,6,7 years?) to go Captain!! I think this is a lot more important!
And that would apply to every other employee too, right? :roll:
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Four1oh
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Four1oh »

CanadaEH wrote:
WJ700
I also think that year 1 and 2 are not great pay scales, but I would rather worry about a 6 or 7 year FO coming over at year 1 pay scale for Capt. I believe that F/0's should carry over at least half years of service to Captain wage (year 6 F/O comes over at year 3 Capt.) . When guys were going Capt. after 12 to 18 months it wasn't a big deal but now new F/O could wait a long while(5,6,7 years?) to go Captain!! I think this is a lot more important!
And that would apply to every other employee too, right? :roll:
explain.
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Clint23
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Clint23 »

It already does, only better. A 5 year CSA that goes in flight starts at a 5 yr FA scale on day one and vice a verse a. The pilots, to my knowledge are the only ones that start at the bottom of the scale.
CanadaEH wrote:
WJ700
I also think that year 1 and 2 are not great pay scales, but I would rather worry about a 6 or 7 year FO coming over at year 1 pay scale for Capt. I believe that F/0's should carry over at least half years of service to Captain wage (year 6 F/O comes over at year 3 Capt.) . When guys were going Capt. after 12 to 18 months it wasn't a big deal but now new F/O could wait a long while(5,6,7 years?) to go Captain!! I think this is a lot more important!
And that would apply to every other employee too, right? :roll:
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CanadaEH
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Re: the new agreement

Post by CanadaEH »

It already does, only better. A 5 year CSA that goes in flight starts at a 5 yr FA scale on day one and vice a verse a. The pilots, to my knowledge are the only ones that start at the bottom of the scale.
Right, because they are classified as "frontline" (FA/CSA/AS/TAC) and the company allows them to move between jobs and stay at the appropriate step as determined by years. The transferrable skills have been determined to be similar enough to warrant the same scale, I'm going to assume. I'm not going to suggest that a FO and Captain have different skills because at the end of the day they're there to fly an aircraft, right? The difference is, correct me if I'm wrong, the level of responsibility of one over the other? If you were in the Airports dept, and you were a CSA.. the next level of responsibility would be a Shift Lead which comes with a higher pay scale. What is being suggested (if applied to other parts of the Company) is that years served as a Shift Lead would go towards determining pay if that CSA became a Shift Lead. Aside from some exceptions during the reorg. that went on this year, that just won't happen in the Airports world. I'm not going to disagree or agree with that philosophy, but that's the reality of today.

What would the arguement be for years served as an FO being used towards a Captain's salary? I'd like to hear that side of the arguement.

EDITED: Sorry, at what step does a FO's salary surpass a Captain's?
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BLZD1
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Re: the new agreement

Post by BLZD1 »

At AC a 12th year First Officer upgrades to a Capt. and gets 12th year Capt. pay on type. Years of service is years of service no BS!
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Clint23
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Re: the new agreement

Post by Clint23 »

Canada, it is industry standard for YOS (Years of Service) for FO's to get 1 for 1 to the skippers pay. Now I am not saying that we should get 1 for 1, perhaps 1 for 2, but we have been told that we get X% of industry standard, and so since this is industry standard, it only seems proper to include that as well.

IMHO

Cheers
CanadaEH wrote:
It already does, only better. A 5 year CSA that goes in flight starts at a 5 yr FA scale on day one and vice a verse a. The pilots, to my knowledge are the only ones that start at the bottom of the scale.
Right, because they are classified as "frontline" (FA/CSA/AS/TAC) and the company allows them to move between jobs and stay at the appropriate step as determined by years. The transferrable skills have been determined to be similar enough to warrant the same scale, I'm going to assume. I'm not going to suggest that a FO and Captain have different skills because at the end of the day they're there to fly an aircraft, right? The difference is, correct me if I'm wrong, the level of responsibility of one over the other? If you were in the Airports dept, and you were a CSA.. the next level of responsibility would be a Shift Lead which comes with a higher pay scale. What is being suggested (if applied to other parts of the Company) is that years served as a Shift Lead would go towards determining pay if that CSA became a Shift Lead. Aside from some exceptions during the reorg. that went on this year, that just won't happen in the Airports world. I'm not going to disagree or agree with that philosophy, but that's the reality of today.

What would the arguement be for years served as an FO being used towards a Captain's salary? I'd like to hear that side of the arguement.

EDITED: Sorry, at what step does a FO's salary surpass a Captain's?
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CanadaEH
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Re: the new agreement

Post by CanadaEH »

I didn't know it was industry standard, so that helps clear up a bit of it.
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CanadaEH
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Re: the new agreement

Post by CanadaEH »

The pilots, to my knowledge are the only ones that start at the bottom of the scale.
I quickly checked the pay scales for pilots.. I didn't know FO pay froze at the same rate from years 4-9. Why is that? Something to do with the mix of options?
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