Does the coolaid really taste as sweet as it sounds?

[Midnight Zulu]

As a Jazz guy with over 2 and half years in and an August start date with Team Teal, I can honestly tell you I think it's well worth the move. So does everyone else by the looks of it. Good Luck to ya

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

No one except the WJPA executive has seen the agreement, including beak-off artist Balfour. There will be no 2% pay cut, because if such a ludicrous proposition is put forth, it will be voted down, thus making Balfour's point moot.

[. .]

Is there a date when the new agreement is supposed to be finalized by? I hope you guys do fantastic!

[balfour]

I know guys I was trying to prevoke discussion. Im hoping for the best as well. Obliviously I was joking as no one has seen the agreement.


Upgrades will be fast with the delivery of the 787 in 2012, so don't worry.

[FL020]

I know guys I was trying to prevoke discussion. Im hoping for the best as well. Obliviously I was joking as no one has seen the agreement.


Upgrades will be fast with the delivery of the 787 in 2012, so don't worry.

hahahah rightttttttttttt... that'll be the demise of WJ. The so called "southwest business model" i guess wont be a model no more.

[Jastapilot]

I know guys I was trying to prevoke discussion. Im hoping for the best as well. Obliviously I was joking as no one has seen the agreement.


Upgrades will be fast with the delivery of the 787 in 2012, so don't worry.

I suppose if the contract is even right on a couple of your points you'll look like an even bigger jackass.

[express]

I for one am very skeptical of the new agreement. 5 years is an automatic no. No years of service. No options of 0%. If any of these rumours are true, we'll be voting again in the summer. I hope I'm wrong.

[Jastapilot]

I hope you're wrong too.

[Flightlevels]

I don't mind a five year deal. they addressed your concerns express.

You will see why this week!

50 k to start now (first year) plus an average of 8 percent profit share and 10k share match should put you over 65 k first year. not bad.

[express]

I don't mind a five year deal. they addressed your concerns express.

You will see why this week!
50 k to start now (first year) plus an average of 8 percent profit share and 10k share match should put you over 65 k first year. not bad.

I hope so bro. I have enough stock already! Please no more stock!!!...your killin' me!!! But it would have to be an amazing agreement for me to say yes to a five year deal. A three year deal, I could let go of some of my more elaborate wishes. Five years, I want it all

[Flightlevels]

From what I hear it addresses cost of living over the 5yr term and the money will compensate for options and or years of service. I really don't think it's the time to be greedy. Keep it simple and fair to build on an already good thing.

[express]

The cost of living increases are great...how about the 5% that everyone else got last year to bring the salary bands to industry standard? We'll just have to see. I consider a 5 year agreement a bit on the greedy side too though. Until I know more, I'm going to reserve judgement instead of making the mistake of debating the agreement (which I haven't even read yet) on this forum. In the end, I'm sure the agreement will be decent. Worst case, we get it all sorted out in a couple more months

[Rotten Apple #1]

The cost of living increases are great...how about the 5% that everyone else got last year to bring the salary bands to industry standard?

Well, everyone else except some of the people in this article:

Globe and Mail: March 14,2009

[express]

The cost of living increases are great...how about the 5% that everyone else got last year to bring the salary bands to industry standard?

Well, everyone else except some of the people in this article:

Globe and Mail: March 14,2009

Wow, those people in the article work for Westjet? I guess I'm out of the loop. I didn't know that things were going so bad here. The sky is probably falling too!!! Wait, I just heard a noise, what was that?!!....ahhh....forget it. Well, I'll just hope we only take a 3% pay cut then. I hope we don't negotiate a 10% pay cut. But then again, that would be better than 20% that we probably deserve. I hope it get's done quick. I'll hope for a 10 year deal now though. Just in case thing's REALLY go south!

PS. I'm just gettin' your goat JohnnyD! We all know it's tough out there. Frankly another reason a 5 years deal is too long.

What's the pass mark anyways? Does anyone know? They should state that before the vote takes place.

[JestWet]

I recently had a conversation with someone who claims to have been privy to an "almost finalized" copy of the proposed agreement. I believe he's a credible source but, I too will reserve my judgement & outspoken comments (most of them anyway) until I see an official document. Let me just say that I hope he was part of some sick joke because if this individual is right about even 1/2 of what he says is about to be presented to us I (and I'm sure most others) will be very disappointed.
I won't post the specifics on a public forum but the basic premise of our "pay raise" is a package which:
- essentially costs the company $0 ;however,
- gives the appearance of being a wage increase ;however,
- infact equates to a slight pay decrease.

The important point I am trying to make is read the new proposed agreement VERY CLOSELY and vote VERY CAREFULLY! Do not fall for the the "dangling carrots" and - Do not be afraid to vote NO if it doesn't suite your best interests.


P.S. - 5 years is 70% longer than our current agreement! They should be prepared to present us with a pretty stellar agreement if they are hoping for us to commit to something for that kind of time frame.
Even with an outstanding agreement which addressed every one of my concerns I would still be very hesitant to accept a 5 year term. This is probably of bigger concern to me than the actual terms of the new agreement. Absolutely anything can happen in this industry in that period of time.
It's probably a well thought-out time-frame in order to have our agreement come due just as we enter the next "down cycle" in aviation 5 years from now.

[tonysoprano]

It's probably a well thought-out time-frame in order to have our agreement come due just as we enter the next "down cycle" in aviation 5 years from now.

I'm very familiar with that tactic. Good luck guys. I'm sure it will all work out.

[Rotten Apple #1]

No prob express. I think I've earned an official 'shitdisturber' designation!

Personally I would love more dough. Pretty happy about the rest. Even the options have made me money; if I have to have a minimum amount of them, I'll probably make some dough off them too.

Talked to a limo driver on Thursday night who took me from Pearson to downtown YYZ, and a cab driver the next morning backed him up on the fact that it is a brutal economy out there right now. No one is spending money. I think people still took vacations this year (judging by the loads I've seen on a couple of fun destination flights), but it is going to be a rocky year for everybody (except the bankruptcy trustee biz).

I must say the new online shift trade system is great! I remember them talking about such a thing 5 and a half years ago. Nice to see we have it. Makes for better quality of life. As does the new 'Campus'. Had groundschool there last week. Starbucks, a Deli, a gym,...and it's being paid for in CASH. Name four companies right now who are paying CASH for a building. No finger pointing, but some companies are doing the sell/leaseback thing to get cash.

Yup read the new agreement carefully. Then get your wife to read it. Then phone a friend who is unemployed (you must have one) to discuss it.

Personally, my faith in my friend Tom Machum (Official 'friend' status since 1981) is going to sway my vote because I'm pretty sure he and his colleagues negotiated in good faith and tried to achieve the best deal for us pilots.

But that's my opinion only. And that opinion may be slightly tainted by the fact that I got to Captain a flight home from Jamaica on Thursday that had my brother-in-law and his wife on board. He was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gehrig's, for those not in the know) in April last year and gets around by walker or wheel chair at this point. Consequently I'll be okay with whatever the agreement brings because, fingers crossed, no one else is going to have to wipe my ass in the morning.

Anyway here's my brother-in-law's blog (shameless plug!!):

G's blog. You'll find a link in there to a FB group that just broke 1000 members yesterday. G (Glenn) was a radio personality who helped build KROCK (Kingston). The Tragically Hip are doing a benefit concert in support of "The G Fund" on May 23rd in Kingston.

[Mach75]

Johnny D, I agree that times are tough at the moment for almost everyone across North America. However, this is not a "normal" environment. Why should we negotiate our agreement on the premise that the current economic environment worse than it has ever been in history ... and then commit to it for 5 YEARS? If they intend to use the economic slowdown as justification for a mediocre agreement then they should only expect us to commit to it for a short time frame.

[skyhigh]

Jestwet is correct. This contract is NOT the slam dunk that many thought it would be? 100% industry standard and/or Cost of living? NOPE. Some groups are getting close to nothing for a raise. Gonna be a tough sell.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Good points mach and sky.

questions.

How does cost of living (COLA) work in deflationary times? I mean, if everything is going down in price (for example only), do you get less pay too?

What is industry standard? I remember back in 2000 when I was at C3 and some gut got hired at United because he had a green card, and everybody was like you lucky f*cker.Look south now. Would you want the USA's 'Industry Standard'? How about Canada? Who do we compare? No thanks pally-wally. I'll evaluate my job/career/life on my own terms, NOT on what somebody else is doing, i.e. the Joneses.

Perhaps some of you guys came to WJ without your eyes open. Me, I was out of work. And I didn't believe anybody who told me I was going to be mortgage free in 5 years, and voila, 6 years later, I'm not. I also didn't do the ESP for two years after I got hired. I never lived on $700 every two weeks. That's right. I made a choice. And I'm okay with that. I'm doing 20% now, cause I can afford it. Perhaps some of you made some less than prudent decisions and loaded up a line of credit. Dunno.

Man, I got a sweet job. Even at the end of a long day. Even when I'm pissed off at something. It's a great job. Maybe I should get pissed off at how much money some VP at WJ is making. Yeah, there's a good way to get wound up. Or maybe I should just go be a VP.

How about I get pissed off that there's no base in YYZ? Another great thing to get pissed off at.

What did Don Bell say about the swamp thing?

Any of you guys ever meet Don? Anyway, I did a couple of times. He used to talk about the swamp thing. Maybe somebody should be talking about the swamp thing.

I know maybe I'll get pissed off today about the 8 years I spent in the right seat. At 4 airlines.

Or maybe I'll remember that we have Ports now, that weren't here a while ago. Or the fact that I don't lug around Jepps.