WestJet Agreement 2.0
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WestJet Agreement 2.0
Wow! That's all I can say. Great job to the WJPA for this piece of gold. Much much better than the first version. Big pay raises as well as indexing for inflation. What a great company.
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tonysoprano
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stickontheice
- Rank 4
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Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Big yes from me too. Amazing work WJPA! Thank you.
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mattedfred
- Rank (9)
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Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Is there a copy of the text here or a news release?
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
There is on the WJPA website.
Oh yeah....Brent Jang's momma is so ugly they filmed, "Gorillas in the Mist" in her shower....
Oh yeah....Brent Jang's momma is so ugly they filmed, "Gorillas in the Mist" in her shower....
Last edited by balfour on Tue May 19, 2009 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Went to the roadshow today. They really cleaned up things. Great job to the WJPA and management for getting to the grassroots of the issue and handling this issue directly with the pilot group. It was great straight shooting with the durf without the b.s.
john
(yes for me..previously a no.)
john
(yes for me..previously a no.)
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Much improved.
Benefits still are missing which still suck btw thanks to the lowest common denominator, same benefits as the high school kids throwing bags and quitting after profit share day but flex bennys might fix some. Hey, my kid won't need braces in the next 4 yrs so, prob a yes here too. But since they only need 50%+1 I might go no just to show that it's not all roses...
Benefits still are missing which still suck btw thanks to the lowest common denominator, same benefits as the high school kids throwing bags and quitting after profit share day but flex bennys might fix some. Hey, my kid won't need braces in the next 4 yrs so, prob a yes here too. But since they only need 50%+1 I might go no just to show that it's not all roses...
Last edited by frog legs on Sun May 24, 2009 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Again, why is this shite on here? Go for a jog or paint your bathroom, better yet post this on the WJPA website. 
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Glen Quagmire
- Rank 4
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Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Ah Gilligan who gives a shit whether or not people openly talk about this in a public forum mostly comprised of retards and knuckle draggers. You might get some more honest responses in a forum where you have anonymity, on WJPA your name is out there for all to see. Open and frank discussion is unfortunately a pillar of our pseudo democratic system, without it you end up trapped in your narrow little world.
On the bright side the vote has been changed from 70% to 50%+1, moving the goalposts is a good way to make sure you get the result you want. 50% is hardly a mandate from the pilots, seems like the vote should be well over 70% anyway so not sure why that decision was made.
On the bright side the vote has been changed from 70% to 50%+1, moving the goalposts is a good way to make sure you get the result you want. 50% is hardly a mandate from the pilots, seems like the vote should be well over 70% anyway so not sure why that decision was made.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
There were problems with 30% of the pilots having more strength to say no. For every no, you needed 1 point something yes's to oppose it. If this were an actual collective agreement, it would be a 50% + 1. If it were any democratic vote, such as a local or federal election, it would be 50% plus one. Even when it passes, the vote will send enough of a message to determine if certain items still need work.
The last agreement at WestJet still needed work when it passed, and the two sides continued to clarify and fix things after the implementation. It ended up being a good enough deal to get us through the 3 years. This agreement will no doubt have the same adjustments made as people learn the new rules for pay and have them apply. If we wanted the traditional agreement, it would take months of lawyers pouring over it, and then it is what it is when the deal starts. Everything after must be negotiated with LOU, MOU and it takes much more time and resources. I think the minor stuff will get 'tweaked' now.
The big ones that bugged me are getting fixed. Mainly TOBW and agreement length. I think this one should pass and the vote result will show in the end if there are outstanding issues or not.
The last agreement at WestJet still needed work when it passed, and the two sides continued to clarify and fix things after the implementation. It ended up being a good enough deal to get us through the 3 years. This agreement will no doubt have the same adjustments made as people learn the new rules for pay and have them apply. If we wanted the traditional agreement, it would take months of lawyers pouring over it, and then it is what it is when the deal starts. Everything after must be negotiated with LOU, MOU and it takes much more time and resources. I think the minor stuff will get 'tweaked' now.
The big ones that bugged me are getting fixed. Mainly TOBW and agreement length. I think this one should pass and the vote result will show in the end if there are outstanding issues or not.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
50% + 1 of a quorum of 75% of the pilot group to be precise.
Now back to my jog
Now back to my jog
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Great work WJPA!!
A good fair honest agreement we can more forward with from both sides. Any agreement favouring one side too much is bad for both. I appreciate the incredible amount of time put in by the WJPA reps and the Durf.
A Yes (previous NO)
A good fair honest agreement we can more forward with from both sides. Any agreement favouring one side too much is bad for both. I appreciate the incredible amount of time put in by the WJPA reps and the Durf.
A Yes (previous NO)
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Nice generalization about the hard working people who load your airplanes in the brutal cold and extreme heat while ensuring that the load is safe for travel. Never mind the efforts to safely dispatch your aircraft in winter deicing conditions.frog legs wrote:Much improved.
Benefits still are missing (which suck a$$ btw thanks to the lowest common denominator, same benefits as the high school kids throwing bags and quitting after profit share day) but flex bennys might fix some. Hey, my kids won't need braces in the next 4 yrs so, prob a yes here too. But since they only need 50%+1 I might go no just to show that it's not all roses...
Also...the idea about them quitting after profit share day is nothing but a myth. The data proves otherwise, but it sounds dramatic.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Make no mistake this 2.0 is a reaction to the shitshow number 1 caused. Mgmt got caught tried to slide one over (and our reps helped them) so now they are trying to smooth it over. Its a good effort and we do appreciate it, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Management has put out the fires that they (and our reps) started in the first place. This is what should have been presented two and a half months ago. It's still not that great a deal, but it will pacify enough of the pilots to get their 50%+1. My prediction is a 75% pass, as most of us just could care less at this point and want to get this over with. I'll vote no because it's not reflecting what we are worth. And the lack of individual pilot benefits. . And the B scale. It's close, but no cigar. I can live with it, but I ain't voting for it.
In four years, when we have some reps with more experience who aren't all buddy-buddy with mgmt, maybe we'll get pilot benefits in there and a decent raise this is a math shuffle, yes a raise, the first in 8 years though, so it should have been bigger
Flame away koolaiders!
Management has put out the fires that they (and our reps) started in the first place. This is what should have been presented two and a half months ago. It's still not that great a deal, but it will pacify enough of the pilots to get their 50%+1. My prediction is a 75% pass, as most of us just could care less at this point and want to get this over with. I'll vote no because it's not reflecting what we are worth. And the lack of individual pilot benefits. . And the B scale. It's close, but no cigar. I can live with it, but I ain't voting for it.
In four years, when we have some reps with more experience who aren't all buddy-buddy with mgmt, maybe we'll get pilot benefits in there and a decent raise this is a math shuffle, yes a raise, the first in 8 years though, so it should have been bigger
Flame away koolaiders!
Last edited by frog legs on Sun May 24, 2009 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
frog legs wrote:Make no mistake, this 2.0 is a reaction to the $hitstorm ver 1.0 caused. Mgmt got caught tried to slide one over (and our "reps" helped them) so now they are trying to smooth it over. It's a noble effort and I do appreciate it, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Management has put out the fires that they (and our "reps") started in the first place. This is what should have been presented two and a half months ago. It's still not that great a deal, but it will pacify enough of the pilots to get their 50%+1. My prediction is a 75% pass, as most of us just could care less at this point and want to get this over with. I'll vote no because it's not reflecting what we are worth. And the lack of individual pilot benefits. And the "yeah, we'll talk about ports and commuting (and then still say no to parking passes and enhanced stby priority and hotel credits)". And the B scale. It's close, but no cigar. I can live with it, but I ain't voting for it.
In four years, when we have some reps with balls who aren't all buddy-buddy with mgmt, maybe we'll get pilot benefits in there and a decent raise (again, this is a math shuffle, yes a raise, the first in 8 years though, so it should have been bigger).
Flame away koolaiders!
frog legs
Your lack of respect for all those who have sacrificed their time and effort is appalling. I find it very hard to believe that you are a pilot at WestJet. If you indeed are , let me be the first to invite you to go forth and seek that which will satisfy you. I'm sure it will be an easy search and you will be much happier wherever that place may be.
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
Frog legs, I truly hope you are one of these big balled types who step up and negotiate next round. It sounds like you are just the guy to get the job done. It is doubtful though as all you are saying is behind a mask of anonymity.
You definitely have lots to say. Since you do have these big balls I am assuming you were standing up on a soap box at the Town Hall meetings waving your arms and telling not only our WJPA executive how you feel but management as well. That was your chance bro, hopefully you stepped up, otherwise you blew it. We'll never really know. If you are the strong silent type then you have no recourse other than a no vote and your opinion does not matter because you chose not to voice it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
On a side note, if you are truly that unhappy here then you should find a better job. You would be much happier at a corporation where you were paid fairly and you respected not only your peers but your management team. I would say that is a fact.
gil
You definitely have lots to say. Since you do have these big balls I am assuming you were standing up on a soap box at the Town Hall meetings waving your arms and telling not only our WJPA executive how you feel but management as well. That was your chance bro, hopefully you stepped up, otherwise you blew it. We'll never really know. If you are the strong silent type then you have no recourse other than a no vote and your opinion does not matter because you chose not to voice it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
On a side note, if you are truly that unhappy here then you should find a better job. You would be much happier at a corporation where you were paid fairly and you respected not only your peers but your management team. I would say that is a fact.
gil
Re: WestJet Agreement 2.0
"if you are truly that unhappy here then you should find a better job"
Why is it that we have so many idiots that pull this ignorant line? How about respect someone's opinion? No agreement will be perfect but respect the fact that a 12 year Captain may view this much differently than say a 3 or 4 year FO.
Why is it that we have so many idiots that pull this ignorant line? How about respect someone's opinion? No agreement will be perfect but respect the fact that a 12 year Captain may view this much differently than say a 3 or 4 year FO.
