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757 for Hawaii?

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skyhigh

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:54 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:25 am
Posts: 310

Hi Mikeecho, the A/C that was supposed to be doing hawaii flying is being redeployed to new routes. So what happens to these routes after nine weeks?

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mikeecho

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:56 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 77

skyhigh wrote:

Hi Mikeecho, the A/C that was supposed to be doing hawaii flying is being redeployed to new routes. So what happens to these routes after nine weeks?

The Hawaii flying was designed to maximize a/c utilization for a new aircraft delivery in February through the start of the summer schedule in April, so I would assume the aircraft in question would be built into the summer schedule as per normal at the end of the 9 weeks.

In the old days, the timing of the new aircraft delivery before the summer sked created extra sections between YYC-YYZ, YVR-YYZ, etc... Last year it was AB-Hawaii.

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North Shore

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:28 am

Rank Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:47 pm
Posts: 4168
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Anyone know the name of the leasing company?

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invertedattitude

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:30 am

Rank 10

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:12 pm
Posts: 2339

A quick search has shown "Air Finland" as offering 2 757-200's available for lease as of a couple months back?

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biffnaked

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:33 am

Rank 0

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:04 pm
Posts: 8

Well, we will see where this goes. I (and many others) will be mighty pissed if this is a reacharound...

We\'ll know this time next year.

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JestWet

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:34 am

Rank 1

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 29

skyhigh wrote:

Only gripe I have with this is that we are Wet Leasing in a year in which we are deferring an A/C delivery. I know it sounds short sighted and self-fish but thats how I feel about it.

Skyhigh, I'm with you. We're delaying our own deliveries only to take on a larger aircraft with more capacity - which is being crewed by another airline. ... Goodbye upgrade

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mattedfred

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:52 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 1503

does the WJPA agreement include scope language?

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Mach75

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:20 pm

Rank 1

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:14 am
Posts: 32

... goodbye westjettitude

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Flightlevels

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:20 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:16 am
Posts: 703

You guys crack me up. Scope language! Delay in upgrade and westjettitude!
That is a clear lack of understanding of what is going on and where we sit with this flying. Should have went to a town hall or better yet give one of the wjpa a call. We have 45 new tails on order, we have retirements around the corner, we have block growth and efficiencies to utilize and one of the highest if not the highest fo pay scales out there. Second to none scheduling and shift trading, progressive port enhancing the list goes on. As my old retired friend Tony says. Apples and oranges. (I know you are still lurking Tony) Ya pretty tough place.

I've semi retired too!

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mattedfred

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:26 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 1503

easy texas

it was just a question

try not to read it in a tone that was not intended

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JestWet

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:58 pm

Rank 1

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 29

Flightlevels wrote:

Ya pretty tough place. I've semi retired too!

Easy comment to make when you're already sitting in the left seat, halfway up the captain's payscale.
Retirements were figured into our expansion plans long ago, delaying airplanes and replacing them with a larger capacity one being crewed from outside the company was not.
Delaying 3 additional airplanes for the next few years will slow upgrades & hiring - there is no other way to look at it. It will adversely affect anyone currently sitting in the right seat, and anyone hoping to get hired on in the future.
Things are good here; the port, the pay, the shift trades, etc.
My "westjettitude" isn't suffering yet but if this turns out to be a year-after-year, on-going wet-lease that further delays our own expansion, I think it might start to eat away at morale and our culture.

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bcflyer

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:35 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Canada

Just out of curiousity, how many days do you guys work every month? I realize it can vary depending on the season etc but what would be an average?

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Flightlevels

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:34 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:16 am
Posts: 703

I can see your concerns, however retirements weren't planned into the growth and upgrades. Where you got that info from isn't accurate. I can only assume you are assuming that. We can't tell the finical health of each pilot. Some will finish late some will early. We don't have the drop dead date like ac(for now).
you have to remember that the airplanes were spread out more for the soft economy not because of this wet lease. Put it this way we are not losing any 737 flying. We will deploy them elsewhere. This wet lease flying is stuff we couldn't do in the first place(profitably) We aren't big enough yet to support a second type economically on our own. We can test the waters and use partners for now. It's better than going through a downsize isn't it? It's smart business period. Take a good look around the industry. Take the time to go sit in with informed people. Trust me you want a heathy strong company. It's way too easy to say I need to drive it. It just doesn't make sense for us "yet" patience grasshopper.

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Manicoti

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:57 pm

Rank 0

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:47 pm
Posts: 6

Boy, some of you guys sound like you've come from a previous bad marriage......Leave the baggage at the door!

I've been here over 7 years and if you have an example of where Westjet tried to "screw" us, i'd like to hear about it. I won't hold my breath.

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Rotten Apple #1

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:58 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:34 pm
Posts: 877

The fact that the CEO of your company has taken the time to sit down with the pilot group both in 'town halls' and ground school settings (and for as long as required) to get the pulse of the pilot group, should set anyone's mind at ease as regards the culture at WJ. GS is simply too smart to blow the culture thing. No one ordered airplanes to upgrade pilots; planes were ordered to execute a business plan.

And that might be an easy comment for me to make as well, considering I'm up the list on the left side of the airplane. I'll spare you the rundown on the three airlines I worked for that aren't here anymore and the effect that had on what I thought was entitled to.

Pick yourself up by your boot straps and go do the work you were hired to do and one day you'll look back and wonder what the fuss was all about. Or go talk to the SSV pilot I just flew with who was my captain back at C3 and see what his expectations were.

That is all.

(PS: smile, tomorrow's payday)

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biffnaked

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:36 pm

Rank 0

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:04 pm
Posts: 8

Things are good at WJ, most will agree. And most will agree that 9 weeks ain't a big deal. I'm just wondering what the end game is. AC is starting their AB-HI flights in Nov, why aren't we worried about them during this time?

Why only the 9 weeks in Feb-Mar? Sure it's spring break time and lots of money to be made but they will be stealing our yvr thrus for two months, AND over the Xmas holidays, aren't we worried about that? Something fishy, that's all. The execs are very good salesman, you wrap it up in a "Big Bad Air Canada" wrapper and it's like Clive all over again, the sure way to get WJers on side is to play the AC bogeyman game. Don't think for a minute that the townhalls weren't very carefully crafted sales jobs.

AC will fight us, and they can afford to hammer us on other routes because they don't care about losing money in the markets we compete on, they will just make it up on the INTL stuff.

I'd hate to see us expand this to other routes just as a way to get sexy flying. Yeah, try it out, but don't come back to us next year asking for 5 planes to do yvr-mbj, ab-hi, etc etc.

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Donald

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:04 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:34 pm
Posts: 1527
Location: Canada

biffnaked wrote:

AC will fight us, and they can afford to hammer us on other routes because they don't care about losing money in the markets we compete on, they will just make it up on the INTL stuff.

Don't kid yourself into believing that WJ doesn't do the exact same thing!

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WJ200

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:39 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:12 pm
Posts: 51

Reacharound....upgrades screwed.....seriously guys. When you came to WestJet did you expect it to be just like another airline. The airline doesn't exist just so you have a place to go for half the month. It exists to make money and to outlast the competition. When you came did you think that management had a vested interest in screwing the employees? If that was the case you should have gone somewhere that it actually does. Gregg didn't even have to come to the pilots to address this issue. Does that sound like someone out to screw the pilots? Also keep things in perspective....it's NINE weeks.....108 FLIGHTS!!! We do 400+ departures per day!! Conspriacy theories don't exist at WestJet nor do we have time for them.....

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FOX69

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:52 am

Rank 1

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 25

The type of WJ pilot who stomps his feet and complains that his "career progression" is being interrupted is the type who has some false ideas about how the aviation business works. I made 737 skip before 40, and I consider that extremely lucky. Or should I complain that 911 slowed down my career progression? I don't think anyone would listen. If I never have to suffer through another downgrade, layoff, or bankruptcy, I'll consider myself very very lucky.

We must be vigilant about this wet lease business, but not over dramatic. When I was hired, it was explained that "we do things a little differently here, we work with the company, not against it."

Remember, it's better to be an FO at WJ than a Capt at Jazz.

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JestWet

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:22 am

Rank 1

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 29

I'm not too worried about my own personal "career progression". More concerned about what it may do to morale.

For what its worth, I wouldn't exactly say that I'm "stomping my feet" either, as you so eloquently put it. Just trying to be cautious about how this may affect culture in the future.

Time will tell.

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Westbeach

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:47 am

Rank 2

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 57

JestWet..you're worried about how it may affect culture in the future? Well you are doing a real good job at getting things going. It is selfish guys on the line like you that give the group a bad name.. Do what you have been hired to do, and let the people in the office do what they need to do. As much as your selfish educated self might think that there is no plan and this is a big bend over the pilot thing, someone with an education and all sorts of data has decided this is what needs to be done and it is going to happen. The fact that you are concerned about your precious upgrade before the interests of the other 7899 employees you work with blows my mind. You obviously slipped thru the cracks. It is guys like you that will kill our amazing culture before any decision the guys on the 5th floor do. Give your head a shake you bum.

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beast

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:30 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 145

Quote:

Wow. The westjet miracle in action.....time to down some more koolaid guys...

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KAG

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:35 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 3232

Both sides of this argument have valid points, Here's where I sit -The short term lease is a good thing. As it's been pointed out it's only for 9 weeks. In that 9 weeks we have have valuable data to gather/crunch and to fight off AC in our backyard. All the while doing it at minimal cost.
In any other company this would be the "slippery slope" (wet lease) but I don't think thats the case here. It may well last for a few years untill it's been proven that we can use those heavies year round at a profit, and then MAYBE we'll buy our own.

I would rather our company take this conservative approach, rather then bet the house and try to take over the world.
And if that means holding up my upgrade for a bit, then so be it. I really don't want to have to start over.

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Manicoti

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:58 pm

Rank 0

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:47 pm
Posts: 6

beast wrote:

Quote:

Wow. The westjet miracle in action.....time to down some more koolaid guys...

Hmm, i wonder which airline you work for?
It's not about drinking coolaid buddy, it's called being "professional" and acting like one! If having pride in what I do and having great work ethics is called drinking cool aid then........BURP!!

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JestWet

Post subject: Re: 757 for Hawaii?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:14 pm

Rank 1

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 29

Westbeach ... wow.
Re-read my posts please. I didn't think they were "over the top" negative comments when I was writing them, maybe I'm wrong. That certainly wasn't my intent anyways. Nice response though - way to keep it as a professional debate.

And I'm the one who slipped through the cracks?

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