50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
Before I get too high up on my horse I just want to point out that this is exactly the situation we are dealing with at ACPA right now with LCC, and we HAVE scope. Good scope. Without it, skyservice would be running our vacation division as we speak; Bye bye b767's and 20 a319's. So by all means go for this idea, but bear in mind it is the TEMPLATE for your future long haul division.
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oh yeah baby
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
80% median wages of already crappy wages for most of regional cie
1 out of 4 only getting a ticket to WJ mainline
working way harder then mainline for less money
After few years some unhappy camper at WJ regional will find out they are second class citizen with a crappy contrat and they will all vote for an ALPA union to get their fair shares... and then it will get interesting
Go ahead guys WJ will finally contribute to increase works condition for pilot... Great move I just cant wait
1 out of 4 only getting a ticket to WJ mainline
working way harder then mainline for less money
After few years some unhappy camper at WJ regional will find out they are second class citizen with a crappy contrat and they will all vote for an ALPA union to get their fair shares... and then it will get interesting
Go ahead guys WJ will finally contribute to increase works condition for pilot... Great move I just cant wait
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
What this signals to me is that Westjet management now consider themselves a legacy airline that has allowed their cost structure to get too high. So just like all the other legacy carriers, instead of coming up with new ideas to make more money they are trying to push wages down.
Otherwise what is the justification for creating a new airline instead of adding a second type to the existing airline? Why not add a second type under the same conditions as the existing airline and negotiate a new pay scale? Is this going to open up new routes and lead to a profitable expansion of Westjet, or is it simply going to allow them to return some routes to profitability by downsizing them?
I hope Westjet pilots make no mistake about it, regardless of any written "guarantees", if you allow a second airline to be created the lesser working conditions at that airline are going to compete with your interests. Lower pay for the turboprop drivers? Absolutely. But everything else should stay the same.
Otherwise what is the justification for creating a new airline instead of adding a second type to the existing airline? Why not add a second type under the same conditions as the existing airline and negotiate a new pay scale? Is this going to open up new routes and lead to a profitable expansion of Westjet, or is it simply going to allow them to return some routes to profitability by downsizing them?
I hope Westjet pilots make no mistake about it, regardless of any written "guarantees", if you allow a second airline to be created the lesser working conditions at that airline are going to compete with your interests. Lower pay for the turboprop drivers? Absolutely. But everything else should stay the same.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
This company started with an idea, 20million bucks, hard work, and a great group of leaders almost 16 years ago - the most instrumental member of that group is very much involved today and will continue to be in the future - I have the utmost confidence in the idea, leadership, and people that will make this happen. It will turn into another historical success story down the road and those involved should be grateful that they are currently or will soon be involved in it - this is the beginning of a new era in Canadian aviation for this and new generations of pilots and industry folk alike.
To those who are not on board just yet, I encourage you to goto a town hall and make an informed decision/opinion. You're 100 percent entitled to your concern's and opinions however please make informed ones.
To those who are jealous and come on here with no information, education, and just a poor observation on the big picture, do all of us a favor and get out of the industry. You are the seeds of cancer that will kill the profession, nobody else will, just your type.
Here is to good times, another awesome story and the start of a better industry in the long run.
Cheers
To those who are not on board just yet, I encourage you to goto a town hall and make an informed decision/opinion. You're 100 percent entitled to your concern's and opinions however please make informed ones.
To those who are jealous and come on here with no information, education, and just a poor observation on the big picture, do all of us a favor and get out of the industry. You are the seeds of cancer that will kill the profession, nobody else will, just your type.
Here is to good times, another awesome story and the start of a better industry in the long run.
Cheers
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
Should this post be taken seriously? I didn't think so........Next!oh yeah baby wrote:80% median wages of already crappy wages for most of regional cie
1 out of 4 only getting a ticket to WJ mainline
working way harder then mainline for less money
After few years some unhappy camper at WJ regional will find out they are second class citizen with a crappy contrat and they will all vote for an ALPA union to get their fair shares... and then it will get interesting
Go ahead guys WJ will finally contribute to increase works condition for pilot... Great move I just cant wait
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
WestJet seeks pilots’ blessing for proposed regional carrier
brent jang — TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Jan. 17, 2012 7:25PM EST
Last updated Wednesday, Jan. 18, 2012 6:44AM EST
WestJet Airlines Ltd. (WJA-T11.53-0.13-1.11%) is seeking to expand operations under a two-tier structure, gambling on maintaining labour harmony by giving its non-union pilots veto power over the carrier’s bold plans to launch a regional service that will pay reduced wages.
Management and the WestJet Pilots Association signed a memorandum of agreement this week that establishes pay and work rules at a wholly owned subsidiary that has an operating certificate for flying 40 turboprops – an ambitious breakaway from its business model of flying Boeing 737 jets since 1996.
Calgary-based WestJet will conduct a vote among its 8,500 non-union employees from Jan. 23 to Feb. 3 on the idea of starting a new regional carrier, but the focus will be on the 1,050 pilots casting their ballots. “If the pilots vote No to the [memorandum of agreement], we will not move forward with the regional airline initiative,” management warned in an internal memo.
The creation of a regional carrier poses a challenge to the airline’s reputation for an egalitarian corporate culture, but WestJet is staking its future on winning support for its proposal to expand into short-haul flights, the better to battle Air Canada and its regional affiliates, notably Jazz Aviation LP.
The pay scale for pilots at the new unit will be less than market rates for regional carriers, the memo said. As well, pilots at the subsidiary would be allowed to contribute up to 10 per cent of their wages toward a stock purchase plan, half of what WestJet’s existing employees are allowed to contribute. And WestJet regional pilots face paying 50 per cent of premiums for health and dental benefits, a cost-sharing arrangement that’s sharply higher than peers at the mainline.
Some WestJet pilots say the subsidiary’s wage scale will amount to 80 per cent of the regional industry median. But management dismissed suggestions that salaries and benefits at the new operation will degrade the airline’s corporate culture. “The total compensation package uses a similar pay mix to current WestJet employees, with a reduction in the actual dollar values that makes it competitive with other regional carriers,” the five-page memo said. “Ultimately, the regional airline is about continued growth, which will optimize our network and feed our 737 flying, so the 737 can continue to grow.”
WestJet said the regional carrier will preserve the corporate culture, resulting in “no second-class citizens,” while “realizing that we do need best-in-class costs to be successful in the regional space.”
The company’s efforts to sway its staff come eight months after unionized members of the Air Canada Pilots Association rejected a tentative labour pact that would have cleared the way for the country’s largest airline to forge ahead with a discount leisure carrier. ACPA is holding bargaining talks this month, with the aid of a federally appointed conciliator.
A non-union WestJet Regional Pilots Association will be formed to represent the interests of pilots at the subsidiary, according to a separate 28-page presentation by management marked “restricted and confidential.”
WestJet views the proposed regional service as an apprenticeship program for its mainline, which currently has 97 Boeing 737 jets. Management is touting job advancement opportunities, saying that for every four pilots hired externally to fly Boeing 737s, one regional pilot will graduate to the mainline.
The Canadian-built Bombardier Q400, with a maximum cruising speed of 667 kilometres an hour, is on WestJet’s shortlist of turboprops, as is the French-Italian ATR 72-600 series of planes. The Q400 could be fitted to seat 74 passengers while the ATR 72-600 seats 68 people.
WestJet chief executive officer Gregg Saretsky and other executives are asking employees to vote in favour of the regional airline, to be launched in 2013. “Help us write WestJet’s next chapter,” they wrote in the presentation. “Our request of you today – your buy-in, commitment and desire to bring your passion to our next chapter; your support of a low-cost regional airline as a wholly owned subsidiary of WestJet.”
Mr. Saretsky argues that WestJet’s domestic market share is stagnating at 36 per cent, compared with Air Canada’s 56-per-cent share, so it’s crucial that employees support the purchase of turboprops to expand into smaller Canadian destinations and also use the new planes during non-peak times on major routes. He said Air Canada still has the edge over WestJet in load factor (the proportion of seats filled by paying customers) and yield (average ticket prices collected to fly one passenger one mile).
Air Canada and its partners serve 76 key domestic destinations, compared with WestJet’s 30 cities. To narrow the gap, WestJet asserts that it needs the regional arm to improve profit and career opportunities, as well as increase the number of destinations.
Management’s presentation urged employees to align their goals with the creation of the subsidiary by striving for “growth, engaged culture, long-term WestJet viability, improved profitability.”
WestJet vs. Air Canada
To battle Air Canada, WestJet plans to order 40 turboprops for regional service, primarily geared toward smaller Canadian cities. The new planes could also be deployed during non-peak times on major routes.
Alliances
Air Canada is a member of the Star Alliance of global carriers. WestJet doesn’t belong to an alliance, but has several partnerships, including a code-sharing pact that it jointly announced Tuesday with Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. WestJet wants to start its regional service in 2013, hoping to feed domestic traffic from smaller cities to major hubs, which in turn would boost connecting traffic to Delta and other partners.
Flights
WestJet lags Air Canada on flight frequencies on key routes. For instance, on the Calgary-to-Edmonton run, Air Canada offered 16 one-way trips a day on weekdays last summer, compared with seven for WestJet.
Head-to-head fares
Fares are more consumer-friendly on routes where there is competition. On the Calgary-Edmonton route, one-way fares last summer ranged from $94 to $449 on Air Canada, while WestJet offered $94 to $229. On the one-way trip from Edmonton to Kelowna, B.C., Air Canada charged from $124 to $479, while WestJet’s range was $124 to $320.
Air Canada fares
On routes WestJet does not fly, Air Canada has higher ticket prices, according to WestJet. For the one-way trip from Calgary to Lethbridge, Alta., on an Air Canada affiliate, it cost from $202 to $588 one-way last summer. For a flight from Victoria to Prince George, B.C., it cost from $238 to $798 aboard Jazz-run planes through the Air Canada Express brand. WestJet hopes to lure customers with cheaper fares.
Brent Jang
brent jang — TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Jan. 17, 2012 7:25PM EST
Last updated Wednesday, Jan. 18, 2012 6:44AM EST
WestJet Airlines Ltd. (WJA-T11.53-0.13-1.11%) is seeking to expand operations under a two-tier structure, gambling on maintaining labour harmony by giving its non-union pilots veto power over the carrier’s bold plans to launch a regional service that will pay reduced wages.
Management and the WestJet Pilots Association signed a memorandum of agreement this week that establishes pay and work rules at a wholly owned subsidiary that has an operating certificate for flying 40 turboprops – an ambitious breakaway from its business model of flying Boeing 737 jets since 1996.
Calgary-based WestJet will conduct a vote among its 8,500 non-union employees from Jan. 23 to Feb. 3 on the idea of starting a new regional carrier, but the focus will be on the 1,050 pilots casting their ballots. “If the pilots vote No to the [memorandum of agreement], we will not move forward with the regional airline initiative,” management warned in an internal memo.
The creation of a regional carrier poses a challenge to the airline’s reputation for an egalitarian corporate culture, but WestJet is staking its future on winning support for its proposal to expand into short-haul flights, the better to battle Air Canada and its regional affiliates, notably Jazz Aviation LP.
The pay scale for pilots at the new unit will be less than market rates for regional carriers, the memo said. As well, pilots at the subsidiary would be allowed to contribute up to 10 per cent of their wages toward a stock purchase plan, half of what WestJet’s existing employees are allowed to contribute. And WestJet regional pilots face paying 50 per cent of premiums for health and dental benefits, a cost-sharing arrangement that’s sharply higher than peers at the mainline.
Some WestJet pilots say the subsidiary’s wage scale will amount to 80 per cent of the regional industry median. But management dismissed suggestions that salaries and benefits at the new operation will degrade the airline’s corporate culture. “The total compensation package uses a similar pay mix to current WestJet employees, with a reduction in the actual dollar values that makes it competitive with other regional carriers,” the five-page memo said. “Ultimately, the regional airline is about continued growth, which will optimize our network and feed our 737 flying, so the 737 can continue to grow.”
WestJet said the regional carrier will preserve the corporate culture, resulting in “no second-class citizens,” while “realizing that we do need best-in-class costs to be successful in the regional space.”
The company’s efforts to sway its staff come eight months after unionized members of the Air Canada Pilots Association rejected a tentative labour pact that would have cleared the way for the country’s largest airline to forge ahead with a discount leisure carrier. ACPA is holding bargaining talks this month, with the aid of a federally appointed conciliator.
A non-union WestJet Regional Pilots Association will be formed to represent the interests of pilots at the subsidiary, according to a separate 28-page presentation by management marked “restricted and confidential.”
WestJet views the proposed regional service as an apprenticeship program for its mainline, which currently has 97 Boeing 737 jets. Management is touting job advancement opportunities, saying that for every four pilots hired externally to fly Boeing 737s, one regional pilot will graduate to the mainline.
The Canadian-built Bombardier Q400, with a maximum cruising speed of 667 kilometres an hour, is on WestJet’s shortlist of turboprops, as is the French-Italian ATR 72-600 series of planes. The Q400 could be fitted to seat 74 passengers while the ATR 72-600 seats 68 people.
WestJet chief executive officer Gregg Saretsky and other executives are asking employees to vote in favour of the regional airline, to be launched in 2013. “Help us write WestJet’s next chapter,” they wrote in the presentation. “Our request of you today – your buy-in, commitment and desire to bring your passion to our next chapter; your support of a low-cost regional airline as a wholly owned subsidiary of WestJet.”
Mr. Saretsky argues that WestJet’s domestic market share is stagnating at 36 per cent, compared with Air Canada’s 56-per-cent share, so it’s crucial that employees support the purchase of turboprops to expand into smaller Canadian destinations and also use the new planes during non-peak times on major routes. He said Air Canada still has the edge over WestJet in load factor (the proportion of seats filled by paying customers) and yield (average ticket prices collected to fly one passenger one mile).
Air Canada and its partners serve 76 key domestic destinations, compared with WestJet’s 30 cities. To narrow the gap, WestJet asserts that it needs the regional arm to improve profit and career opportunities, as well as increase the number of destinations.
Management’s presentation urged employees to align their goals with the creation of the subsidiary by striving for “growth, engaged culture, long-term WestJet viability, improved profitability.”
WestJet vs. Air Canada
To battle Air Canada, WestJet plans to order 40 turboprops for regional service, primarily geared toward smaller Canadian cities. The new planes could also be deployed during non-peak times on major routes.
Alliances
Air Canada is a member of the Star Alliance of global carriers. WestJet doesn’t belong to an alliance, but has several partnerships, including a code-sharing pact that it jointly announced Tuesday with Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. WestJet wants to start its regional service in 2013, hoping to feed domestic traffic from smaller cities to major hubs, which in turn would boost connecting traffic to Delta and other partners.
Flights
WestJet lags Air Canada on flight frequencies on key routes. For instance, on the Calgary-to-Edmonton run, Air Canada offered 16 one-way trips a day on weekdays last summer, compared with seven for WestJet.
Head-to-head fares
Fares are more consumer-friendly on routes where there is competition. On the Calgary-Edmonton route, one-way fares last summer ranged from $94 to $449 on Air Canada, while WestJet offered $94 to $229. On the one-way trip from Edmonton to Kelowna, B.C., Air Canada charged from $124 to $479, while WestJet’s range was $124 to $320.
Air Canada fares
On routes WestJet does not fly, Air Canada has higher ticket prices, according to WestJet. For the one-way trip from Calgary to Lethbridge, Alta., on an Air Canada affiliate, it cost from $202 to $588 one-way last summer. For a flight from Victoria to Prince George, B.C., it cost from $238 to $798 aboard Jazz-run planes through the Air Canada Express brand. WestJet hopes to lure customers with cheaper fares.
Brent Jang
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
I hope all of the Westjet pilots realize how absolutely MONUMENTAL their decision will be for the future of all pilots in Canadian aviation, not just today but in years ahead.
The Westjet business model has been profitable with their current system which pays their pilots a fair and respectable wage. Why can't this model survive at their new regional?
The Westjet business model has been profitable with their current system which pays their pilots a fair and respectable wage. Why can't this model survive at their new regional?
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
The decision is even more monumental for the future of WestJet the corporation, Tex North. The focus is not on establishing work standards for pilots. if you have been through the roller coaster of layoffs at airlines, like I have, you would realize that long term stable employment is the goal: far more valuable than a 5 year stint at a high paying job only to have the company go under.
If you're on the outside looking in, you don't have the full picture and there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that might answer a number of the questions here, but at the same time, would not be suitable fodder for discussion publically.
Suffice it to say, we're bringing the war to the streets:
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!!
If you're on the outside looking in, you don't have the full picture and there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that might answer a number of the questions here, but at the same time, would not be suitable fodder for discussion publically.
Suffice it to say, we're bringing the war to the streets:
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!!
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
You are 100percent right - the wj pilot group vote vote will be monumental for the future of canadian aviation. Lets not loose sight that this is a low cost regional startup. Westjet did not pay their start up crews anything near market value back in 1996 and that will not be the case here. Over time WJ has grown and the pilot group are some of the best compensated in the industry when you factor in work/life balance, ESP, Profit share, etc. Everything needs to start from the bottom up and dont kid yourself, it will go up. The "initial hit" or whatever you want to call the 80pc may look bad to some out of the gate however I can all but guarantee that by time it is a mature airline and running at full those westjet regional guys and gals will be some of the best compensated (overall)regional pilots in north America if not the world. You need to think about setting up the future generations not just tomorrow.
In addition to the above, a guaranteed flow thru to the jets (if youre not a tool) is more or less guaranteeing your career path. It is aviation so who knows what the future will hold but it is a very promising idea. The whole against 1:4 argument is retarded - it will be insane to have everyone flow thru at once - still need to keep regional running without constantly hiring and having the associated tng costs.
With this upcoming vote the pilot group will for the most part undoubtedly shape WJ and the careers of everyone in canadian aviation for the foreseeable future. I certainly hope they make thorough and well educated decisions and see that they have the opportunity to change the industry status quo for the better.
Are we better off with the way the things have been the last 10 years and today or is this an opportunity to get rid of the shi**y industry we have built for ourselves and make it better for the guys currently slinging bags and the ones working on their PSTAR exams?
In addition to the above, a guaranteed flow thru to the jets (if youre not a tool) is more or less guaranteeing your career path. It is aviation so who knows what the future will hold but it is a very promising idea. The whole against 1:4 argument is retarded - it will be insane to have everyone flow thru at once - still need to keep regional running without constantly hiring and having the associated tng costs.
With this upcoming vote the pilot group will for the most part undoubtedly shape WJ and the careers of everyone in canadian aviation for the foreseeable future. I certainly hope they make thorough and well educated decisions and see that they have the opportunity to change the industry status quo for the better.
Are we better off with the way the things have been the last 10 years and today or is this an opportunity to get rid of the shi**y industry we have built for ourselves and make it better for the guys currently slinging bags and the ones working on their PSTAR exams?
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
OK guys/gals you can all relax.
The vote that is taking place is just to see if we the employees accept this direction the company is purposing, nothing more. After which the real WAWCON talks begin.
Please trust me when I say this even more hotly discussed on our internal forum then on here, and yes it’s heated. We as a pilot group want to make sure the regional pilots get a fair shake, and I truly believe they will. NO ONE wants to see the bar slide lower. So let’s just relax a bit, take a deep breath and for some polish your resume, because IMHO good things are coming.
As for flow through, this is a topic near and dear to me and a lot of Westjetters. The 1/4 is a MIN ratio, from what I've read it could be higher - we need to watch our training costs. Also there will be no interview, if you’re in good standing and your number comes up, you’re in.
The vote that is taking place is just to see if we the employees accept this direction the company is purposing, nothing more. After which the real WAWCON talks begin.
Please trust me when I say this even more hotly discussed on our internal forum then on here, and yes it’s heated. We as a pilot group want to make sure the regional pilots get a fair shake, and I truly believe they will. NO ONE wants to see the bar slide lower. So let’s just relax a bit, take a deep breath and for some polish your resume, because IMHO good things are coming.
As for flow through, this is a topic near and dear to me and a lot of Westjetters. The 1/4 is a MIN ratio, from what I've read it could be higher - we need to watch our training costs. Also there will be no interview, if you’re in good standing and your number comes up, you’re in.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
One of the real keys will be, does date of hire carry over?
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
I would urge all WJA pilots to consider the implication of the 80% or 20 % discount if you will. Why should your pilots be considered 20 percent less valuable than any other similar pilot ? Surely the viablity of the enterprise can't hinge on the wage discount. Also, it can't be because WJA is broke...far from it. So why is it then that this suspicious discount is on the table ? Learn from the mistakes at AC because as time passes, executives and culture may change. The decisions you make today must be able to withstand those changes if you hope to prosper further down the timeline. BTW, I have no vested interest either way. I just don't want to see you guys make a mistake.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
My 2 cents:
Below industry standard pay + low flow through to mainline = union 3-5 years after start up. What would that do to the stock?
There are going to be people that end up at this company for a career, and maybe not by their choice. They own houses, they have family, they will find it easier to bring a union in that will negotiate industry standard pay scale, which they surely deserve, then pack up and move some place else that will pay them better.
Time will tell, and we will all see what happens. Whatever it is, I hope it's good for the industry and Westjet, not just Westjet.
Good luck!
Below industry standard pay + low flow through to mainline = union 3-5 years after start up. What would that do to the stock?
There are going to be people that end up at this company for a career, and maybe not by their choice. They own houses, they have family, they will find it easier to bring a union in that will negotiate industry standard pay scale, which they surely deserve, then pack up and move some place else that will pay them better.
Time will tell, and we will all see what happens. Whatever it is, I hope it's good for the industry and Westjet, not just Westjet.
Good luck!
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
All this talk of flow through is fine and dandy, but how much will there be? I mean it seems if WJ is expanding into the regional market with Q400s it would appear the 737 market will be peak very very soon or already has. Also the fact that WJ is such a young company and from what I understand if a guy starts in the right seat today as an FO would be over 10 years to see left seat. How much movement on the 737 would there be? I just can't see this whole flow though thing being that great for guys on the Q400.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
Hi,
Date of hire carries over.
As for the flow ratio, the 1:4 is a MINIMUM. Having said that it is our belief that having more from the regional is better for culture and moral.
Sure it costs more by way of training, but that is the price for culture and team spirit. We want them to be contributors to the whole company. We will also share equally profit share...
Feed from the regional will grow domestic capacity within Canada. We will put more bums in the seats therefore growing WJ more. We have the flexibility with the 37 fleet by way of options and tails ordered. If it works you have more block hours put into the system and you have more opportunity for regional guys to move up. It also paves the way for growth on the top end for larger a/c. All of this will be in the interest of the guy joining the regional.
Don't forget many of the management and current pilot group came from the air ontario's, CRA, Jazz environment. We learned a lot of what was good and what was bad. I personally came from air Ontario and although I worked with great people, I hated the feeling of being second class to mainline guys. Somedays you could cut the tension with a knife when you were sharing a shuttle etc. This will not happen here if I can help it at all.
The best thing is that we are going to the employees first. How many companies put that much into what the employees think? The moa vote is in the first week of Feb, the board meets on the 7 th I believe. Then the results will be known. What the employees think will be key to the boards decision.
As for the pay and other small issues, that has yet to be determined. It has not been set in stone.
We are simply concentrating on the MOA for now. One step at a time. Once we get the blessing of the board all the hard work starts for us. There are lots of cool "other plans and details" too, but I can't share those with you yet.
I'm personally excited to see this coming and it can only benefit the industry as it's been kind of stagnant as of late. The economy isn't the greatest either.
Putting myself back at 1000 hrs in my carreer, this would have been a wicked opportunity. No training bonds and a ticket to mainline. Stable company. Having been laid off twice and gone through one shut down - stings. Sign me up.
People do have to understand that it has to be set up correctly too. That might entail not the premiums of a mature carrier. Much like when we started wja. I think my first year captains wage was 60 k if I remember correctly. We were the laughing stock of the industry, but the hard work of our people got us here today. It will take some more hard work as well to get this up and running.
I appreciate all the opinions on here, and they don't fall on deaf ears. We will try and build it right and try to do the best for all.
Cheers
Dave.
Date of hire carries over.
As for the flow ratio, the 1:4 is a MINIMUM. Having said that it is our belief that having more from the regional is better for culture and moral.
Sure it costs more by way of training, but that is the price for culture and team spirit. We want them to be contributors to the whole company. We will also share equally profit share...
Feed from the regional will grow domestic capacity within Canada. We will put more bums in the seats therefore growing WJ more. We have the flexibility with the 37 fleet by way of options and tails ordered. If it works you have more block hours put into the system and you have more opportunity for regional guys to move up. It also paves the way for growth on the top end for larger a/c. All of this will be in the interest of the guy joining the regional.
Don't forget many of the management and current pilot group came from the air ontario's, CRA, Jazz environment. We learned a lot of what was good and what was bad. I personally came from air Ontario and although I worked with great people, I hated the feeling of being second class to mainline guys. Somedays you could cut the tension with a knife when you were sharing a shuttle etc. This will not happen here if I can help it at all.
The best thing is that we are going to the employees first. How many companies put that much into what the employees think? The moa vote is in the first week of Feb, the board meets on the 7 th I believe. Then the results will be known. What the employees think will be key to the boards decision.
As for the pay and other small issues, that has yet to be determined. It has not been set in stone.
We are simply concentrating on the MOA for now. One step at a time. Once we get the blessing of the board all the hard work starts for us. There are lots of cool "other plans and details" too, but I can't share those with you yet.
I'm personally excited to see this coming and it can only benefit the industry as it's been kind of stagnant as of late. The economy isn't the greatest either.
Putting myself back at 1000 hrs in my carreer, this would have been a wicked opportunity. No training bonds and a ticket to mainline. Stable company. Having been laid off twice and gone through one shut down - stings. Sign me up.
People do have to understand that it has to be set up correctly too. That might entail not the premiums of a mature carrier. Much like when we started wja. I think my first year captains wage was 60 k if I remember correctly. We were the laughing stock of the industry, but the hard work of our people got us here today. It will take some more hard work as well to get this up and running.
I appreciate all the opinions on here, and they don't fall on deaf ears. We will try and build it right and try to do the best for all.
Cheers
Dave.
Last edited by DaveP on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Stu Pidasso
- Rank 4
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
What's that age old adage; "Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them yourself?"
Saretsky was schooled in Airline Management with Legacy Carriers where Pilot envy (hatred) is prevalent. If (and it is a long shot) ACPA doesn't gain significant pay raises, you will have some downward pressure on the WJ salaries.
You've had a swinging door with Management. Expect some newbie MBA Office Monkey to start dissecting the Pilot wages.
It's a game changer for you guys; I wish you nothing but the best.
Saretsky was schooled in Airline Management with Legacy Carriers where Pilot envy (hatred) is prevalent. If (and it is a long shot) ACPA doesn't gain significant pay raises, you will have some downward pressure on the WJ salaries.
You've had a swinging door with Management. Expect some newbie MBA Office Monkey to start dissecting the Pilot wages.
It's a game changer for you guys; I wish you nothing but the best.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
Nothing was ever mentioned about scheduling. If I were to guess, it would be the same as the 37 pilots scheduling system. So to get 85-90% of what you request as a schedule, how much is THAT worth? At my time at WJ? A lot.
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
It will be interesting to see if any of the guys n gals in the WestJet PropJet Q400 class will get the call from AC just like some of the Jazz guys n gals in ground school got from WJ 
Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out
DaveP,
Your regional pilots will be paid " 80%" of regional industry average salaries. Your Mainline 737 drivers are currently paid over 100% of industry 737 wages. Why not insist that the regional drivers be shown the same respect?
Your regional pilots will be paid " 80%" of regional industry average salaries. Your Mainline 737 drivers are currently paid over 100% of industry 737 wages. Why not insist that the regional drivers be shown the same respect?
