Gwendolyn Richards
CanWest News Service
Thursday, May 12, 2005 It may have sizzled with the ladies, but a bottle of cologne shaped like a bomb fizzled with Abbotsford airport security who detained Daniel Jensen as he tried to board a plane to Calgary.
Jensen, 31, was pulled aside after he had checked his luggage and his two-year-old Rottweiler, Jynx, for his flight to Calgary after security detected something suspicious in his bag.
Jensen wasn't even thinking about his bottle of cologne called Time Bomb. The black bottle, shaped like a cannonball with a top where a wick might come out, was in his carry-on bag.
Abbotsford police were called.
"They swabbed the cologne bottle [and] detected what they believed to be an explosive substance," Const. Shinder Kirk said.
Security told Jensen they detected an "explosive chemical of some nature."
Then they called it TNT, Jensen said.
Jensen, now in Calgary, said he understood why security would not let him board and wanted his luggage removed from the plane, but he's surprised by the blunders that followed.
Handlers retrieved his dog, a cooler and duffel bag, but his red suitcase was left on the plane, which took off to Calgary.
Jensen was detained until the flight landed in Calgary, where the suitcase could be examined.
He was told he could use his cellphone to call WestJet in Calgary about his luggage; then his phone was taken away over fears it could be used as a detonator, Jensen said.
He was told WestJet Airlines would rebook him on a flight in the morning. Then, he said, they decided to refund his money instead.
Almost 24 hours later, he caught an Air Canada flight at twice the cost.
Security kept the cologne.
"Thinking about it again, I probably would have had it either in my bag that went on board or not flown with it at all," Jensen said.
The $40 bottle that he bought before Christmas was "well received by women" and smelled good, he said.
For now, though, he'll just have to make do with his other colognes.
WestJet officials were not available for comment.
© The Vancouver Province 2005
WJ Blunders yet again..
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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twinpratts
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REBEL THINK BEFORE YOU TALK!
Dont come on here and embarass yourself at that sad attmept to fit in with Blastor!
Honestly probably the most stupid post ive ever seen!
Right up there with Blastor!
Fly safe
WS739
Honestly probably the most stupid post ive ever seen!
Right up there with Blastor!
Fly safe
WS739
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Canus Chinookus
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Gee its a WJ responsibility not to dispatch the aircraft with any article that belongs to any passenger not traveling on that flight especially one that had been removed for security reasons. Thats basic 101.. What happened folks? Ýou forgot the red suitcase or didn't you want to take the delay?
If I had been a passenger on that flight I would have retained a lawyer by now and started a class action lawsuit for endangering my life by not following the proper safety precautions as mandated by TC. I understand that TC is conducting an audit on WJ this month and I expect that they will be asking the same question. I guess this is another case of WJ being ignorant of the law.
That’s real neat customer service by the way, just dumping your passenger. Was he on a cheap ticket so the effort wasn't worthwhile?
If I had been a passenger on that flight I would have retained a lawyer by now and started a class action lawsuit for endangering my life by not following the proper safety precautions as mandated by TC. I understand that TC is conducting an audit on WJ this month and I expect that they will be asking the same question. I guess this is another case of WJ being ignorant of the law.
That’s real neat customer service by the way, just dumping your passenger. Was he on a cheap ticket so the effort wasn't worthwhile?
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Canus Chinookus
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Jaques Strappe
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Jaques
You know full well that passenger/baggage must be a match or the wheels don't turn until the issue is resolved. This rule of thumb has been around on the international scene for at least 20 years, transborder 15 years and on the domestic side approximately since 9/11.
I don’t know how many delays I’ve taken in the past due to this very rule however since the introduction of computerized baggage ticketing/tracing the ramp folks know exactly in which container that baggage is suppose to be in, which helps minimizes the delay.
According to this news report WJ was aware that this passenger’s baggage was still on the aircraft and I suspect rather then take the delay in looking for it WJ decided to continue .If they only discovered their error after the flights departure the Captain should have been notified immediately with a immediate return. That is how AC or for that matter any responsible airline would have handled the situation.
What makes this a very serious incident is that the passenger in question was refused boarding for security concerns, so serious that local police concluded that the article is their possession contained an explosive material. Yet still the flight was dispatched with the possibility that the suitcase could have contained more explosive material. Why else would they have held the passenger at the airport until the safe landing of the flight? They didn’t know what they were dealing with but WJ dispatched the flight anyway. This is not a simple matter of simply forgetting or losing a bag. WJ committed a gross error in judgment which could have resulted in dire consequences I suspect in part due to their culture and inexperience. Any lawyer would have a field day with this one.
To further throw fuel on the fire they then refused passage to this passenger and returned his money when they should have treated him with golden gloves because of their blunders. No one is saying this passenger displayed any common sense in trying to bring this article on board, however if WJ had shown any of their much bragged about customer service this incident would never have been reported in the newspaper.
I wouldn’t be surprised that the reporter had no idea the significance of what he was reporting on; in any case he let the cat is out of the bag. Hopefully the Captain had no part in this decision making.
Canus Chinookus
You should know better..
You know full well that passenger/baggage must be a match or the wheels don't turn until the issue is resolved. This rule of thumb has been around on the international scene for at least 20 years, transborder 15 years and on the domestic side approximately since 9/11.
I don’t know how many delays I’ve taken in the past due to this very rule however since the introduction of computerized baggage ticketing/tracing the ramp folks know exactly in which container that baggage is suppose to be in, which helps minimizes the delay.
According to this news report WJ was aware that this passenger’s baggage was still on the aircraft and I suspect rather then take the delay in looking for it WJ decided to continue .If they only discovered their error after the flights departure the Captain should have been notified immediately with a immediate return. That is how AC or for that matter any responsible airline would have handled the situation.
What makes this a very serious incident is that the passenger in question was refused boarding for security concerns, so serious that local police concluded that the article is their possession contained an explosive material. Yet still the flight was dispatched with the possibility that the suitcase could have contained more explosive material. Why else would they have held the passenger at the airport until the safe landing of the flight? They didn’t know what they were dealing with but WJ dispatched the flight anyway. This is not a simple matter of simply forgetting or losing a bag. WJ committed a gross error in judgment which could have resulted in dire consequences I suspect in part due to their culture and inexperience. Any lawyer would have a field day with this one.
To further throw fuel on the fire they then refused passage to this passenger and returned his money when they should have treated him with golden gloves because of their blunders. No one is saying this passenger displayed any common sense in trying to bring this article on board, however if WJ had shown any of their much bragged about customer service this incident would never have been reported in the newspaper.
I wouldn’t be surprised that the reporter had no idea the significance of what he was reporting on; in any case he let the cat is out of the bag. Hopefully the Captain had no part in this decision making.
Canus Chinookus
You should know better..
'If I had been a passenger on that flight I would have retained a lawyer by now and started a class action lawsuit for endangering my life by not following the proper safety precautions as mandated by TC.'
Well, nobody onboard the flight has called a lawyer... and that shows how very stupid you are by suggesting it.
'I understand that TC is conducting an audit on WJ this month and I expect that they will be asking the same question. I guess this is another case of WJ being ignorant of the law.'
Actually, the audit has been going very well. So far nothing but praise. Nice try though.
Well, nobody onboard the flight has called a lawyer... and that shows how very stupid you are by suggesting it.
'I understand that TC is conducting an audit on WJ this month and I expect that they will be asking the same question. I guess this is another case of WJ being ignorant of the law.'
Actually, the audit has been going very well. So far nothing but praise. Nice try though.
How come I’m not surprised at the lack of accountability and responsibility that your post suggests? It seems to be part of the WJ culture. There’s an old saying ‘it ant’ over until the fat lady sings’’
If I were a WJ employee I would be trying to determine how accurate this news report actually is. Remember there are always two sides to every story. In other words ask your management if its accurate and correct it if it isn't..
I suspect TC Security is not smiling over what happened and you can rest assured that they will be questioning WJ further as to their actions as reported in this news story. It takes a while for the full significance to sink in.
Good Luck I'm glad I'm not writing the incident report.
p.s. I understand that TC has not signed off on the 120 minutes yet even though the pilot group is undergoing training. May be this little incident will put full approval on hold, something to think about.
If I were a WJ employee I would be trying to determine how accurate this news report actually is. Remember there are always two sides to every story. In other words ask your management if its accurate and correct it if it isn't..
I suspect TC Security is not smiling over what happened and you can rest assured that they will be questioning WJ further as to their actions as reported in this news story. It takes a while for the full significance to sink in.
Good Luck I'm glad I'm not writing the incident report.
p.s. I understand that TC has not signed off on the 120 minutes yet even though the pilot group is undergoing training. May be this little incident will put full approval on hold, something to think about.
Rebel,
I have to call BS if you say AC, or any other airline for that matter, has never dparted with an unaccounted bag. No system is perfect. Unless you have more information than the original article posted I don't see where it says they knowingly took off with his bag. They could well have thought they had all the bags in question. He was likely being questioned and may not have even got to his bags till after the aircraft had departed.
Likewise they don't say when it was noticed the bag was still on the aircraft. Are you saying that if they were on descent into yyc they should have turned around back to yxx?
I agree that this is a serious situation and should be learned from but from the article there is no way to conclude that Westjet knowingly did anything wrong.
As for how the passenger should be treated, it was security that couldn't tell the difference between cologne and a bomb.
While you're interpretation may be correct that is all it is, your interpretation. There is not enough information in that article to support either yours or mine. To state yours as fact is in error.
I have to call BS if you say AC, or any other airline for that matter, has never dparted with an unaccounted bag. No system is perfect. Unless you have more information than the original article posted I don't see where it says they knowingly took off with his bag. They could well have thought they had all the bags in question. He was likely being questioned and may not have even got to his bags till after the aircraft had departed.
Likewise they don't say when it was noticed the bag was still on the aircraft. Are you saying that if they were on descent into yyc they should have turned around back to yxx?
I agree that this is a serious situation and should be learned from but from the article there is no way to conclude that Westjet knowingly did anything wrong.
As for how the passenger should be treated, it was security that couldn't tell the difference between cologne and a bomb.
While you're interpretation may be correct that is all it is, your interpretation. There is not enough information in that article to support either yours or mine. To state yours as fact is in error.
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Jaques Strappe
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Yes Rebel, I have been around long enough to know the rules about security and baggage being matched with the manifest.
I have also been around long enough to know and witness airlines look the other way at times to keep the operation on the rails.
You and I both know that you could fire a cannon through these so called security measures that everyone is paying for. Do you have your MOT pass number cross referenced from the hot list each and everytime you pass through security? If we hired a lawyer for every incident of a breach in security, there would be no airports or airlines for that matter.
Honestly, in this instance, I don't think Westjet has done anything that most other airlines haven't done at some point. Not that I am condoning it but..........."shit happens"
Just my opinion.
I have also been around long enough to know and witness airlines look the other way at times to keep the operation on the rails.
You and I both know that you could fire a cannon through these so called security measures that everyone is paying for. Do you have your MOT pass number cross referenced from the hot list each and everytime you pass through security? If we hired a lawyer for every incident of a breach in security, there would be no airports or airlines for that matter.
Honestly, in this instance, I don't think Westjet has done anything that most other airlines haven't done at some point. Not that I am condoning it but..........."shit happens"
Just my opinion.
Xkbal
Where did I say in any post that AC or that matter any airline have never departed with a negative match between passenger/baggage?
The big difference is that a very serious security issue was introduced into the equation. When you have a security issue involving potential explosives (please reread the article) you doubly check that all baggage belonging to that individual has been removed. This is not a game as WJ is about to find out if the article is accurate. If WJ doesn’t have the proper required checks and balances in place TC should lift their operating license. I can assure you that AC has all the required checks and balances in place but it costs money to do the job correctly something that the LCC's fail to realize..
Common sense would dictate that the flight would make a landing at the first suitable airport under the circumstances depending upon where, when and if WJ notified the Captain that he had a potential explosive on board. As you have pointed out we certainly don’t have all the facts as to what went down but from the article it doesn’t look good for WJ. They appear to have made the incident even more believable by refusing all comment.
Jaques
Please reread the article "EXPLOSIVES" were supposedly involved. I've been down that road with AC and I know what happens and I can assure you flt.opts, company security ATC as well as the RCMP are instantly involved. Sh#t like this doesn't just happen...
Where did I say in any post that AC or that matter any airline have never departed with a negative match between passenger/baggage?
The big difference is that a very serious security issue was introduced into the equation. When you have a security issue involving potential explosives (please reread the article) you doubly check that all baggage belonging to that individual has been removed. This is not a game as WJ is about to find out if the article is accurate. If WJ doesn’t have the proper required checks and balances in place TC should lift their operating license. I can assure you that AC has all the required checks and balances in place but it costs money to do the job correctly something that the LCC's fail to realize..
Common sense would dictate that the flight would make a landing at the first suitable airport under the circumstances depending upon where, when and if WJ notified the Captain that he had a potential explosive on board. As you have pointed out we certainly don’t have all the facts as to what went down but from the article it doesn’t look good for WJ. They appear to have made the incident even more believable by refusing all comment.
Jaques
Please reread the article "EXPLOSIVES" were supposedly involved. I've been down that road with AC and I know what happens and I can assure you flt.opts, company security ATC as well as the RCMP are instantly involved. Sh#t like this doesn't just happen...
Last edited by Rebel on Sun May 15, 2005 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Flapsforty
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Well if you want to hear it from the horses mouth, I was the Captain of that fligth.
The guest was stuck in security 5 minuties before sked and the CSA told us there was some sort of security issue, but they wouldn't give her the details. I asked to start a bag pull just in case. (we can throw them back on in 2 seconds if the guest makes it).
On sked I asked her to ask security if they were close to getting him through. The bottom line was, he wasn't getting through security. His bags were already pulled (all of them) so we closed up and departed.
I am sorry he didn't make it through but perhaps if he had shown up 15 minutes earlier they would have had time to deal with the problem. I was not about to upset a hundred other guests (never mind the cascade effect of being late for the next five legs) over one person who brought a bomb shaped bottle to the airport.
Cheers
The guest was stuck in security 5 minuties before sked and the CSA told us there was some sort of security issue, but they wouldn't give her the details. I asked to start a bag pull just in case. (we can throw them back on in 2 seconds if the guest makes it).
On sked I asked her to ask security if they were close to getting him through. The bottom line was, he wasn't getting through security. His bags were already pulled (all of them) so we closed up and departed.
I am sorry he didn't make it through but perhaps if he had shown up 15 minutes earlier they would have had time to deal with the problem. I was not about to upset a hundred other guests (never mind the cascade effect of being late for the next five legs) over one person who brought a bomb shaped bottle to the airport.
Cheers
Well glad to hear from you and sorry that it happened to you, if you are really the Captain of the flight.
Perhaps you would be so kind to explain the difference in stories; you say all bags were removed but the article says not. Who assured you that all this passengers bags were removed?
Are you saying that no-one advised you of the potential explosive device exactly in those terms?
You mentioned that you didn't want to upset your schedule because some passenger brought a bomb shaped device to the airport. Who when and where were you so advised that it was bomb shaped?
Hey Captain A word of advice don't make any further comments on this forum as it could come back and bit you, leave it up to the companies spokeperson..
Perhaps you would be so kind to explain the difference in stories; you say all bags were removed but the article says not. Who assured you that all this passengers bags were removed?
Are you saying that no-one advised you of the potential explosive device exactly in those terms?
You mentioned that you didn't want to upset your schedule because some passenger brought a bomb shaped device to the airport. Who when and where were you so advised that it was bomb shaped?
Hey Captain A word of advice don't make any further comments on this forum as it could come back and bit you, leave it up to the companies spokeperson..
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Flapsforty
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Rebel,
Can't explain the differance in stories. Media got it wrong? Who did they get thier info from? The rules are very clear re positive bag match. I have been delayed for 20 mins. at a time waiting for bags to be matched so I doubt very much that his were on board after we left. He was the last person to check in so his bags would have been run out seperatly (I'm assuming) so they would have been easy to find.
No one advised what security was in a knot about, I suspect this didn't come out till after the flight had left.
I learned of the details later that evening.
I don't have a problem telling the truth, I doubt it could bite me. Nothing sinister happened, perhaps CATSA sould be the people being questioned over this matter as it was thier decision to deny him boarding.
Cheers
Cheers
Can't explain the differance in stories. Media got it wrong? Who did they get thier info from? The rules are very clear re positive bag match. I have been delayed for 20 mins. at a time waiting for bags to be matched so I doubt very much that his were on board after we left. He was the last person to check in so his bags would have been run out seperatly (I'm assuming) so they would have been easy to find.
No one advised what security was in a knot about, I suspect this didn't come out till after the flight had left.
I learned of the details later that evening.
I don't have a problem telling the truth, I doubt it could bite me. Nothing sinister happened, perhaps CATSA sould be the people being questioned over this matter as it was thier decision to deny him boarding.
Cheers
Cheers
