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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:40 am 
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/westjet-inks-deal-for-thomas-cook-charter-flights/article2406162/

Congrats WJers. More business the better. As a Jazz employee it's a kick to the nuts, but we kind of saw it coming.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:24 am 
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No surprise since TC was looking to purchase lift rather than operate their own aircraft. I'm sure if Jazz had the capability off hand things would have been different.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:47 am 
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So does this mean more expansion for WJ? Can they operate the current fleet size with their normal schedule as well as WJ vacations?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:24 am 
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WestJet plans to extend leases on three aircraft that were due to be returned in early 2013, to provide a part of the seats purchased by Thomas Cook.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:49 am 
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teacher wrote:
No surprise since TC was looking to purchase lift rather than operate their own aircraft. I'm sure if Jazz had the capability off hand things would have been different.


We can weld a couple of 705's together



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Cam wrote:
teacher wrote:
No surprise since TC was looking to purchase lift rather than operate their own aircraft. I'm sure if Jazz had the capability off hand things would have been different.


We can weld a couple of 705's together


Isn't that what the 705 already is, challengers welded together



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:14 pm 
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How long is an appropriate amount of time before announcing the expansion of the wet lease program or has Greg not run it by you yet?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:34 pm 
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huh?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Sorry, mbbunchaletters reads headlines and not the whole article. Got it now.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Oh ok stinkenapple, if you want to walk around with teal colored glasses on thats not my problem. Guess we'll see in a 5 or so months.
Lets look at the obvious for a sec, the Western program worked for both parties, TC needs something to do for the surplus of 57s during our winter or park them. TC couldn't fill the 57s but combined with WJ they will. Unless WJ load factors were low out east for the vacation market where are they going to get the added capcity?
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WestJet Airlines Ltd. (WJA-T14.530.352.47%) has signed a deal to fly charter flights for Thomas Cook Canada Inc., just days after the leisure travel firm discontinued its contract with Jazz Aviation LP.

Calgary-based WestJet said Wednesday that the new pact will allow the carrier to provide extra seat capacity for passengers who book on Thomas Cook’s Sunquest Vacations unit next winter.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:51 pm 
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mbav8r wrote:
Oh ok stinkenapple, if you want to walk around with teal colored glasses on thats not my problem. Guess we'll see in a 5 or so months.
Lets look at the obvious for a sec, the Western program worked for both parties, TC needs something to do for the surplus of 57s during our winter or park them. TC couldn't fill the 57s but combined with WJ they will. Unless WJ load factors were low out east for the vacation market where are they going to get the added capcity?


"Not only will this improve our fleet utilization, it provides further economic justification for WestJet's fleet growth in the coming years," continued Gregg Saretsky. "We have now made the decision to cover a component of the Thomas Cook seat purchase by extending the leases on three aircraft that were due to be returned in early 2013. Together with three new aircraft deliveries in 2012 and five in 2013, our entire fleet of Boeing Next-Generation 737s creates a unique opportunity for WestJet to serve the capacity needs of the Thomas Cook Canada business in a cost-effective way."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... slug=TO523


F 8)



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:13 am 
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MBAV8OR, I truely don't think you'll see an expansion of the wet lease beyond what is already there. And if you do it will be put to the pilots and voted on.
Time will tell.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:50 am 
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The rumour mill is 3 G-reg 757's crewed by TC UK for winter 2012/2013.

This could also lead to summer capacity for transatlantic.

Quid pro quo?



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:07 pm 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... nders.html


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:45 am 
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rudder wrote:
The rumour mill is 3 G-reg 757's crewed by TC UK for winter 2012/2013.

This could also lead to summer capacity for transatlantic.

Quid pro quo?


It wouldn't surprise me. From my understanding having 1 aircraft is no longer acceptable (see Hawaii APU troubles.)

Personally, I couldn't care less how many wet leases we have. If we can't do it with our own planes, we need to do it with someone else's. Once it makes financial sense to get our own second type, we better be doing the flying, but not before. The company's financial health is more important than any short term gain for a select few of us.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:11 am 
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Now that Jazz has demonstrated that it is operationally and technically possible to have pilots operate with alternating seasonal PPC's, why would WJPA not consider the same and staff the 757's as C-reg? Wj will eventually be operating widebody aircraft (767/787?) so the 757 is a great platform to have in place on the OC prior to adding the larger aircraft.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:51 am 
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Boeing will do everything possible to ensure WJA's entry into the international market is with the 787s. They are already considered a strategic customer. So maybe some of that jazz 757 overseas experience will be valuable over at wja. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Delete.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:41 pm 
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Bede wrote:
rudder wrote:
The rumour mill is 3 G-reg 757's crewed by TC UK for winter 2012/2013.

This could also lead to summer capacity for transatlantic.

Quid pro quo?


It wouldn't surprise me. From my understanding having 1 aircraft is no longer acceptable (see Hawaii APU troubles.)

Personally, I couldn't care less how many wet leases we have. If we can't do it with our own planes, we need to do it with someone else's. Once it makes financial sense to get our own second type, we better be doing the flying, but not before. The company's financial health is more important than any short term gain for a select few of us.


It will be 2, not 3.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:10 pm 
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So, with WestJet becoming part of the problem and not the solution, you're ok with that as long as your profit share cheque rolls in. You must support SunWing as well then....Friggin pilots, we're all a bunch of self serving eogotist
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Bede wrote,
Personally, I couldn't care less how many wet leases we have. If we can't do it with our own planes, we need to do it with someone else's. Once it makes financial sense to get our own second type, we better be doing the flying, but not before. The company's financial health is more important than any short term gain for a select few of us.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:05 pm 
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mbav8r wrote:
So, with WestJet becoming part of the problem and not the solution, you're ok with that as long as your profit share cheque rolls in. You must support SunWing as well then....Friggin pilots, we're all a bunch of self serving eogotist
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Bede wrote,
Personally, I couldn't care less how many wet leases we have. If we can't do it with our own planes, we need to do it with someone else's. Once it makes financial sense to get our own second type, we better be doing the flying, but not before. The company's financial health is more important than any short term gain for a select few of us.

Well I guess that's the difference between our mentality. You would sacrifice your employers profitability for the short term gain and I am willing to give up a little for long term gain. This attitude is not limited to this issue- it permeates everything within our organizations and is the reason why our organizations have such divergent long term outlooks.

I can look at this issue from a me first viewpoint or a company viewpoint. Regardless of which way I look at this issue, I still end up with the same conclusion- I support it until we can do it more profitably.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:22 pm 
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I'm sure all the Sunwing pilots said the same thing when the foreign pilot issue crept in, now there's an unfair cost advantage and it's driving down yields for all tour operators. Sunwing's CEO recently said there was an over capacity in this segment, but did'nt shoulder any blame for that.
WestJet started with one 57, this year came a TC wetlease that was so cost effective, it warranted getting out of 3 remaining years of a contract, now you'll have 2 or more next year.
Nope, not part of the problem as far as I can see, Bede maybe you can help me out.
Why is it ok to lower the bar in the name of profit?
I guess you'll be willing to take a paycut down the road, you know so your company can make a profit.
Quote:
Well I guess that's the difference between our mentality. You would sacrifice your employers profitability for the short term gain and I am willing to give up a little for long term gain. This attitude is not limited to this issue- it permeates everything within our organizations and is the reason why our organizations have such divergent long term outlooks.

Oh and as far as our mentality goes, we gave a lot to help our company try and diversify,
unfortunatley WalJet undercut us.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:49 pm 
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I know I am going to regret this but... here it goes.

mbv8r, you are being trolled by Bede. Nothing has been announced about WJ getting any more 757's. If you had bothered to read the article I posted, you would have noticed the TC is selling as much as 20% of their fleet to pay the bills. The other articles posted have stated that this is TC buying seats on our 737 fleet, not wet leasing us airplanes. I may be proven wrong later but for now, I am not seeing anything that has us adding 'your' planes to our fleet... so calm down. Now; If, and I mean if, there is an announcement that a bunch of 757's are showing up on our door with British pilots, then that is our problem (WJ pilots) and we will deal with it as we see fit.

Here's the really important thing for you... we are pilots. We all fly airplanes. Lets be nice to each other and let the management take care of the competing side of the business. Because, if you aren't already aware of this, our CEO and your CEO have drinks from time to time and they play nice, understanding that business is business.



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:42 pm 
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mbav8r wrote:
I'm sure all the Sunwing pilots said the same thing when the foreign pilot issue crept in, now there's an unfair cost advantage and it's driving down yields for all tour operators. Sunwing's CEO recently said there was an over capacity in this segment, but did'nt shoulder any blame for that.
WestJet started with one 57, this year came a TC wetlease that was so cost effective, it warranted getting out of 3 remaining years of a contract, now you'll have 2 or more next year.
Nope, not part of the problem as far as I can see, Bede maybe you can help me out.
Why is it ok to lower the bar in the name of profit?
I guess you'll be willing to take a paycut down the road, you know so your company can make a profit.
Quote:
Well I guess that's the difference between our mentality. You would sacrifice your employers profitability for the short term gain and I am willing to give up a little for long term gain. This attitude is not limited to this issue- it permeates everything within our organizations and is the reason why our organizations have such divergent long term outlooks.

Oh and as far as our mentality goes, we gave a lot to help our company try and diversify,
unfortunatley WalJet undercut us.


Ok I'll bite on this one.

mbav8tr. I fully understand what you are saying with regards to the whole diversify route. We tried to do the same at Skyservice before we got pushed under the rug because we were undercut by someone. TC also cancelled the contract early as did signature. Perhaps you may see the flying again in the future as is the case with many of us who ended up at westjet. I feel for your situation and trust me I understand how it feels. I can assure you though when employees are faced with the street or a paycut you to would take the later.



Last edited by B757FO on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Another fundamental change for TC by abandoning dedicated aircraft is no premium product. TC had invested quite a bit in offering hot meals and other extras on Jazz which will no longer be available on the seat purchase deal with WJ. It just goes to show that most of the decisions are commercially driven and have little or nothing to do with the pilots.


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