Encore WACON released and surprise, it sucks

[flyer 1492]

Good post Fanblade, we ARE our own worst enemy. I looked into your numbers and just using the salaries (top pay) without pension and benefits added in (that would be a shot in the dark). Here are some numbers to think about.

Air Canada
B-777 $400.00/hr 349 seats
E-90 $229.00 97 seats

West Jet
B-737 $283.00 (600) 119 seats (700) 136 (800) 166

Jazz
All types $184.00 705 75 seats Q400 74 seats Dh8-300 CRJ 50 seats Dh8-100 37 seats

SR
All types $ 158.00 E-75 73 seats Q400 74

Encore
Q400 $102.00 78 seats

With the WJ pilots heading into negs. I would be a little worried with the difference in the payrates.

[Fanblade]

Pensions are expensive. Leaving them out will lead to inaccuracy. Total compensation is the only real comparison and as such pension can't be excluded..

Your AC and Jazz numbers are too low. WJ numbers are difficult to compare due to profit sharing and options.

I very much doubt WJ pilots have a total compensation greater than AC pension in. Or that they will have difficulty in negotiations.

Where did you get those SR numbers from? They look high.

[North Shore]

Sorry, spelling flames are lame, I know; but seeing as you guys are obviously not spending your profit cheques on dictionaries, and as spell-checks don't pick up homophones..

Compete or Parish. If you aren't competitive, you will parish.

Parish = church catchment area.

Perish = Die.

Perish, perish, perish...

[mbav8r]

Wonder where this will come from, ummmm...let me think, cheaper fuel, nope that can't be it. Well I'm sure Greg has some ideas.

WestJet also announced on Wednesday plans to cut $100 million of costs over 36 months, in part to enable the airline to continue its reputation as a low-cost carrier.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/W ... z2KAqR3KyA

[countryhick]

What, no snappy retorts, no spin??

[Mig29]

Great points Fanblade....but what's the point if you pardon the pun?

Some of these guys don't see anything but a shiny new Q400 with a maple leaf or WJ logo on its tail...the math doesn't make sense to them nor they care....they are all hoping for a quick hop to the mainline. The money? it doesn't really matter to them, because the jobs they left behind were twice as crappy as the new gig. You almost cant blame them....or can you? But in 5 years from now when the math does sink in, it may be too late for personal confessions of guilt and disappointment.

[BTyyj]

You almost cant blame them.

No, you can't blame someone for taking an upgrade.

Even if every current pilot said no, these airline would probably just find someone out of high school and get them to pay $60k for training then place them in the right seat of a Q400. As long as the current system of training and rules are in place, the pay with continue to degrade, not at the fault of these pilots but at their expense.

[flyer 1492]

Fan Blade

The numbers I used came from Aviation Pilot Central also I used the top pay for Captains and F/O's. For SR I used the numbers from this website which is their base pay plus hourly wage and divided it by 680 hours. I didn't include pension or benefits in the mix, since they are hard numbers to come by unless you have all the contracts. I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Flyer

[invertedattitude]

While I think it's deplorable the downward spiral in wages for pilot groups, a few in this thread need to get off their soapboxes and stop pretending you wouldn't do the same in their shoes.