Encore's Pay and Work Conditions

[natural]

WJHR,
Would you be able to shed some light on how many drivers you guys are looking for this time around and the total time you're looking for in order to get a call? Thank you kindly for being available to answer our questions on regular basis....

[brooks]

This thread is getting stupid. I like some of the constructive comments but some of the people on here are really a bunch of whiners. If it isn't good enough for you then go apply somewhere else. There's tons of jobs out there for pilots with the right attitude. Yes the Encore pay is lame but believe it or not you will make more than the base salary in your first year. Keep up the good work WJHR.

[7thirtyseven]

This thread is getting stupid. I like some of the constructive comments but some of the people on here are really a bunch of whiners. If it isn't good enough for you then go apply somewhere else. There's tons of jobs out there for pilots with the right attitude. Yes the Encore pay is lame but believe it or not you will make more than the base salary in your first year. Keep up the good work WJHR.

Let me get this straight.... You're whining about the whiners??? The world is a great place, aint it?

[the AK]

WJ started in the mid 90's. Anyone with a brain can go onto google and put that starting wage into an inflation calculator and let me know what that "starting wage" looks like compared to the "starting wage" in todays money at Encore. If you still feel these low cost carriers are offering a fair wage then factor in the increase in housing and gasoline costs, just for starters. As for the argument that these places have a great company culture, well, as soon as I can pay my mortgage with great company culture I will start paying more attention. Westjet Encore has been conducting interviews over the past few months and in that time out of those who have been offered a job more have declined the position than have accepted. My hat goes off to those who said no

[volez]

It s interesting to see how people berate those pilots who accept those work conditions, but nobody has really said how much a new hire would take home after tax and what is realistic beyond those 70h block minimum.

So, to the Encore fos, could you please tell us what your take home pay is and what would be a realistic monthly deposit on top of your two bi-weekly pay cheque ?

You can pm me as well.

Cheers

[flyer 1492]

At 38.00/ hr X 70 hours per month would give you a salary of 31,920 for the year. When you take 15% tax off (4,788.00) you are left with 27.132.00 when divided by 26 pay periods would give you 1,043.54. I didn't factor in health cost benefits, CPP, EI payments or the very lucrative 10% pension plan, if you did I bet the take home pay would be south of 900.00 a pay day.

Flyer 1492

[dhc#]

Monthly minimum guarantee is going up from 70 to 80 paid hrs next month on a one year temporary basis (in part because of disparity between hours worked and hours on duty and for other reasons), most are working 20 days/month, some even more, people are getting very tired these dark days of winter, an inefficient route and scheduling structure due to lack of planes and crews and too many routes to satisfy an aggresive expansion plan...they say it will improve

[flyer 1492]

Okay, so they raised the bar because nobody can live on 70 hours minimum. At 80 hours you will bring home 36,480.00 per year. Income tax will take 5472.00 leaving you 31,008 or 1192.00 before the other deductions. You will be lucky to have just over 900 in your pocket.

[FL020]

Flyer 1492, you post actual numbers, that are insanely grotesque at best. I Must ask myself why, and how some of the guys do this to themselves!!?

1000 bucks for rent, where's the remaining 900 going

[CpnCrunch]

Flyer 1492, you post actual numbers, that are insanely grotesque at best. I Must ask myself why, and how some of the guys do this to themselves!!?

1000 bucks for rent, where's the remaining 900 going

That 1000 bucks is every 2 weeks, not every month.

Using the payroll deductions online calculator, the net salary is $2433/month after tax, CPP and EI if you live in Alberta. It's not great, but you could certainly afford to live on that if you're single.

[monkey]

On a salary of 36400 you would pay:

Paycheck Calculator Result
Gross Pay $1,400.00
Federal Withholding $190.21
Provincial Withholding $131.10
Canada Pension Plan $62.64
Employment Insurance $26.32

Net Pay $989.73

Calculation Based On
Tax Year Jan. 2013
Annual Gross Pay $36,400.00
Pay Frequency Bi-weekly
Province Alberta
Federal Claims $0.00
Provincial Claims $0.00
Approved Shares $0.00
Annual Income Reductions $0.00
Pay Period Income Reductions $0.00

Average one bedroom in Calgary around $1200, by the time you factor in car insurance gas and food you are part of the working poor. Any pilot with any decent experience should not be working a McJob here.

Just to keep it in perspective WJ is sitting on 1.2 billion in cash and made 65 million last quarter. They can afford to pay you a respectable wage. Unfortunately it's more important for the share price to beat analysts target of 31 dollars next year than they care about you eating food. Maybe next years Christmas miracle will involve a food drive for the less fortunate Encore pilots.

[M. Essaie]

The salary described is roughly the same as the one I made as an FO living in Calgary 30 years ago. I had purchased a house in the northwest just off McKnight for $88,000. I see the same house was on the market last year for $434,000. Trying to live in the 2013 world with a 1983 salary - that would seem to indicate that life as an Encore FO would be painful in the extreme.

[POPANDCHIPS]

Good God.
Looks like my family and I truly dodged a bullet when I passed on this job. Why would anyone put themselves in debt to be part of this team.

[7thirtyseven]

Good God.
Looks like my family and I truly dodged a bullet when I passed on this job. Why would anyone put themselves in debt to be part of this team.

Q. How many WestJet "mainline" pilots put themselves into debt to join this team?
Q. Has it paid off?

Further Q. How much more debt would be incured at Encore as opposed to WestJet "mainline" or Jazz or Air Canada?

[POPANDCHIPS]

Q. How many WestJet "mainline" pilots put themselves into debt to join this team?
Q. Has it paid off?

Further Q. How much more debt would be incured at Encore as opposed to WestJet "mainline" or Jazz or Air Canada?

The story of those who joined Westjet and the results they had wont mean a thing when I can't put food in my children's belly or a roof over their head. I am truly happy for you if you can support a family on a Navajo FO wage and justify doing it after putting in so many years of hard work and sacrifice. For myself there were a ton of better options out there, and I took one.
Cheers

[rudder]

He isn't making a Navajo FO wage. He is making WJ pay, ESOP, dividends, and profit share and wants to continue to do so and believes that the best way to do that is for YOU to come to Encore and work for Navajo FO pay.

[7thirtyseven]

He isn't making a Navajo FO wage. He is making WJ pay, ESOP, dividends, and profit share and wants to continue to do so and believes that the best way to do that is for YOU to come to Encore and work for Navajo FO pay.

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

[rudder]

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

This has been discussed ad nauseam. And I am pretty sure that it is higher than $40K to start at Jazz. And there is certainly no comparison between the Capt scale at Jazz and the Capt scale at Encore.

When you factor in pay, pension, benefits, and tax free reimbursements the overall starting compensation at Jazz is well above anything that is being offered by Encore (or any other tier 2 carrier). Perhaps that is why AC is so enamoured with everybody else and not Jazz?

Low pay is hardly something to be proud of as a professional pilot.

[7thirtyseven]

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

This has been discussed ad nauseam. And I am pretty sure that it is higher than $40K to start at Jazz. And there is certainly no comparison between the Capt scale at Jazz and the Capt scale at Encore.

When you factor in pay, pension, benefits, and tax free reimbursements the overall starting compensation at Jazz is well above anything that is being offered by Encore (or any other tier 2 carrier). Perhaps that is why AC is so enamoured with everybody else and not Jazz?

Low pay is hardly something to be proud of as a professional pilot.

Not proud of low pay, just saying we are all living in glass houses.... If you "factor in" stuff for Jazz, feel free to do the same for Encore, yes some of the stuff at Encore is less than desirable, but there are potential upsides that must be thrown in the equation. Eg Profit Share which (Im just guessing) will approach 10G for an Encore Capt next year.
The bottom line is this an Encore pilot is NOT enslaved to Encore, he/she has chosen Encore of their own free will presumably because he/she feels that choice is in theirs and their family's best interest. While they have chosen an uncertain path, and one that will entail a LOT of hard work, (you'd have to have your head farther up your ass than the average pilot not to think that being on the ground floor of an airline wont be hard work and plenty of "issues"), it is their choice. Over and above this must be an understanding that both the airline AND WestJet pilots recognize that mistakes have been made, and there has been a continuous effort at improvement.

[rudder]

Over and above this must be an understanding that both the airline AND WestJet pilots recognize that mistakes have been made, and there has been a continuous effort at improvement.

Well, until that improvement includes $$ then I presume that the lack of interest from more qualified applicants will continue. How long before the lack of qualified applicants stifles the Encore expansion plans? And for those sitting at Encore just putting in time until the move to WJ, what if WJ decides that one of the tools to control cost creep is a B-scale at WJ? Sound far fetched? You never know. So you may pay the price at Encore and then again at WJ for the remainder of your career.

WJ had a chance to get it right when everybody else got it wrong. But they too got greedy and struck out. I hope that the decision makers will recognize the folly of the current model and come back to it from a more enlightened viewpoint. But I won't be holding my breath.

In the meantime there is always somebody with a heartbeat and a commercial licence willing to sell their soul. And that is why pilots continue to be management's best bet and their own worst enemy. I look forward to the day that is no longer the case.