EVIL FLOURISHES WHEN GOOD MEN DO NOTHING

[Rotten Apple #1]

Is that how that goes? I can't remember. But it struck me as that M_O_P dude spilled his guts.

I would like to add that I too have been treated very well by management in times of discipline. It is almost spooky how M_O_P's experiences mirrored mine. Almost identical. I too was fairly dealt with and I also don't need ALPA's or any other entity's help to resolve my issues with my manager guy dude/dudette.

I'll go back underground now. I just wanted to be a supporting voice.

[vortac]

Yeah that Modern Organic Products dude. There's a lot of them these days, but can you blame him? For the vast majority of its history, agriculture can be described as having been organic. Only during the 20th century was a large supply of new chemicals introduced to the food supply. Not to mention GMOs.

Spooky, nah, even if you're that M_O_P guy too. I'm sure everyone is happy your management dude/dudette's doesn't object. Dude, they're probably out surfin'. After all, thats's what dude's do.
I'm not really sure ALPA has a plan for supporting your Organic Products meal decisions anyway. They prefer the GMO'd/non-organic type, preferably sandwiches with carcinogenic sulphite packed deli-meats.

Before you go underground rotten core # un, remember to wash all vegetables, even if they're organic because it might cause you to not make any sense.

[YYZSaabGuy]

oh-no___-not-this-shit-again.jpg (17.18 KiB) Viewed 7883 times

[bmc]

[rhythm101]

Easy with the ALPA bashing, WJ pilots should be thanking ALPA for the work they do for Canadian pilots. Why? Westjet pilots are more affected by foreign pilots than any ALPA represented Canadian airlines yet it is ALPA leading the charge in the fight against foreign pilots operating in Canada. What has the WJPA done in that fight, even allowing them to operate within your own airline. Also, it is ALPA pilots who started the College of Pilots, dedicated to protecting the future earnings of all Canadian pilots. Again, what has the WJPA or Westjet pilots done in that regard, in particular with the pay and benefit package agreed to for Encore. So think before you start bashing and remember "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." Peace out

[True North]

I'm pretty sure there are no foreign pilots working at WJ and ALPA is hardly leading the charge against foreign pilots in Canada - Gilles Hudicourt is. ALPA did exactly squat until Gilles made a very loud fuss.

The President and founder of the College of Pilots is a WJ captain so maybe you should think before bashing.

As usual, never let the facts get in the way of a union recruiting drive.

[bombardierfixer]

Tell that to the FA's. Apparently you may get profit share to entice you to stay union free, oh wait what, I already get profit share!?! The website is so out of touch with the realities of WJ. They (CUPE) can't even take the time to investigate WJ how do the FA's think that they are going to get meaningful representation? Granted its a pretty small number of disenfranchised FA's.

[mbav8r]

Truenorth, ALPA has been fighting this issue for years, behind the scenes and chose not to publicly out anyone who could change/enforce policy.
Gilles has done amazing to bring this to the publics attention and even Gilles would say his efforts to date have not enjoyed much success.
This year there will be 3 57's operated by UK crews for 5 months and Sunwings business model has as pretty big impact on WJ vacations business model so they are getting from in house and outside forces as well.
Just FYI

[wjhr]

Sorry, not 3 57's. sh!t disturber.

[Bede]

Easy with the ALPA bashing, WJ pilots should be thanking ALPA for the work they do for Canadian pilots. Why? Westjet pilots are more affected by foreign pilots than any ALPA represented Canadian airlines yet it is ALPA leading the charge in the fight against foreign pilots operating in Canada. What has the WJPA done in that fight, even allowing them to operate within your own airline. Also, it is ALPA pilots who started the College of Pilots, dedicated to protecting the future earnings of all Canadian pilots. Again, what has the WJPA or Westjet pilots done in that regard, in particular with the pay and benefit package agreed to for Encore. So think before you start bashing and remember "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." Peace out

Nice try. ALPA leading the charge? No, ALPA has been sitting idle by and is now only coming to the party late. There's a thread all about this in the General Airlines forum. In fact, it is Gilles who is leading the charge, but he is getting paid by AT to fight for this (nothing wrong with that BTW). The College has been started by some ALPA, ACPA and WJPA pilots, but make no mistake, it's not ALPA starting this. We are the highest paid narrow body pilots, and we are advocating that all pilots will eventually end up with that opportunity (Encore flow-through). Thanks but I don't think we need a lecture from you about protecting future earnings of pilots.

[Bede]

This year there will be 3 57's operated by UK crews for 5 months and Sunwings business model has as pretty big impact on WJ vacations business model so they are getting from in house and outside forces as well.
Just FYI

Forgive me if I disclose non-public information, but it's 1.3 aircraft (1 FT + 1 recovery aircraft). Deal just reached a short time ago.

[FICU]

We are the highest paid narrow body pilots...

And you guys sure do like announcing it to everyone!

But... I think you have been passed.

[rudder]

We are the highest paid narrow body pilots...

And you guys sure do like announcing it to everyone!

But... I think you have been passed.

Highest paid NB rates in Canada? Remember that the WJ rates are what the arbitrator used to set the Rouge 320 pay scale. North America? Not even close and the gap will be increasing. And most of the US legacy pilots get an additional 12-16% company contribution to their 401K (retirement plan).

[mbav8r]

Not trying to disturb anything, was told to me as fact, from someone on the inside and has also been said in another thread, from an anonymous WJetter. So, if a deal has been reached, great however someone is on the losing end if TC is supplying a 57 for use 1/3 of the time it's here and it still doesn't make it any less hypocritical or of a threat.

[Bede]

We are the highest paid narrow body pilots...

And you guys sure do like announcing it to everyone!

You're right. I'm kind of cringe when I say those sorts of things, but I'm kind of tired when some guy who makes less than me accuses me of lowering the bar.

But... I think you have been passed.

Good. I'm hoping every pilot eventually makes more than I do (honestly).

I think the 1/3 thing is because there is probably a huge penalty for non-performance. It's cheaper having a plane fly a 1/3 schedule to complete any flying than paying the performance penalty. I had heard a rumour that it was to be 4 planes, and brought it up, and was told my rumour was wrong.

[rhythm101]

Bede, I am glad you are the highest paid narrow body pilot, and that - despite what else you say - is obviously very important to you. But it is just luck in this industry that gets anyone anywhere, and it is also because of the work of unions that you have the ability to declare that income and enjoy the rest of the lifestyle you enjoy. I have never chased the biggest paycheck or even wanted to fly the biggest metal - as they say "any a$$hole can fly a jet, most of them do" - it is just too bad that people like you continually have to prove it. I am sorry that you have such a small mind as to actually believe that you are better than anybody because of the check you cash every two weeks or the cockpit you climb into to earn that paycheck. And yes you have lowered the bar with Encore - just because you don't want to recognize it doesn't change it. How you will justify the 10% ESP for an encore pilot compared to your own I can only imagine - hope that works out for you better than it did at Air Canada/Jazz. Personally, I want to see us all get over those barriers and that egotism and realize we are better and stronger as one united pilot group.

True North - you are plainly wrong and you should educate yourself before speaking up. I am definitely not a union recruiter, I could care less if the WJ pilots unionize or not. I don't agree with a lot of things which have happened at ALPA International, National or within my own company but I do recognize the good things they have done for me and for every other pilot in this country and industry both directly and indirectly, everything is connected and the industry is a very small place. Just because ALPA isn't pounding their chests and shouting at the front of the room doesn't mean they haven't been doing anything these last few years about foreign pilots. Most of these types of things are resolved and negotiated in quiet corners and behind closed doors, though I do think Gillies approach is need at some points when it seems like the wall is too high to climb over.

WJHR - why exactly would you call mbav8r that- at least you could justify and clarify if you are going to make such a blatant accusation. Their were exactly 2 757's operated by WJA out of YYC with TC colours and crewed by foreign pilots - is that not correct? As one of the two WJ managerial representatives on this site I find your comments not only disparaging but rather disappointing and completely uncalled for. I have found it quite interesting how WJA spent so much time and energy fighting against Air Canada's pension relief yet is relatively silent on the foreign pilot issue.

[wjhr]

Ok, ill clarify, my statement is no increase from last year yet they would rather stir the pot and say there is now 3 coming. They were pretty confident in the statement yet doesnt even know. Post with integrity. Has wjpa been quiet. Ask gilles, he has been invited out and has been talking with the wjpa a fair bit. But you knew that right? Not management btw.

[True North]

Bede, I am glad you are the highest paid narrow body pilot, and that - despite what else you say - is obviously very important to you. But it is just luck in this industry that gets anyone anywhere, and it is also because of the work of unions that you have the ability to declare that income and enjoy the rest of the lifestyle you enjoy. I have never chased the biggest paycheck or even wanted to fly the biggest metal - as they say "any a$$hole can fly a jet, most of them do" - it is just too bad that people like you continually have to prove it. I am sorry that you have such a small mind as to actually believe that you are better than anybody because of the check you cash every two weeks or the cockpit you climb into to earn that paycheck. And yes you have lowered the bar with Encore - just because you don't want to recognize it doesn't change it. How you will justify the 10% ESP for an encore pilot compared to your own I can only imagine - hope that works out for you better than it did at Air Canada/Jazz. Personally, I want to see us all get over those barriers and that egotism and realize we are better and stronger as one united pilot group.

True North - you are plainly wrong and you should educate yourself before speaking up. I am definitely not a union recruiter, I could care less if the WJ pilots unionize or not. I don't agree with a lot of things which have happened at ALPA International, National or within my own company but I do recognize the good things they have done for me and for every other pilot in this country and industry both directly and indirectly, everything is connected and the industry is a very small place. Just because ALPA isn't pounding their chests and shouting at the front of the room doesn't mean they haven't been doing anything these last few years about foreign pilots. Most of these types of things are resolved and negotiated in quiet corners and behind closed doors, though I do think Gillies approach is need at some points when it seems like the wall is too high to climb over.

WJHR - why exactly would you call mbav8r that- at least you could justify and clarify if you are going to make such a blatant accusation. Their were exactly 2 757's operated by WJA out of YYC with TC colours and crewed by foreign pilots - is that not correct? As one of the two WJ managerial representatives on this site I find your comments not only disparaging but rather disappointing and completely uncalled for. I have found it quite interesting how WJA spent so much time and energy fighting against Air Canada's pension relief yet is relatively silent on the foreign pilot issue.

[Oleo 4]

Often wonder what keeps people coming back to this site..... Most of the time it seems any debate is filled with a prepubescent angst! Basic communication skills forgotten as the reader spends more time thinking of his/her retort rather than comprehending the senders message.

I'll leave those thinking of their retort to my message with: " "

[FrankieW]

Hahah that was an awesome rant. I might visit Avcanada more after reading that. rhythm101, I'm sorry your WestJet interview didn't go well