WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

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teacher
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WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by teacher »

WestJet pilots reject tentative agreement
The Globe and Mail

Published Friday, Nov. 29 2013, 1:55 PM EST
Last updated Friday, Nov. 29 2013, 1:58 PM EST

Pilots of WestJet Airlines Ltd. Have rejected a new tentative agreement with the airline.

The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association, voted 59 per cent against the new contract, but will continue to fly planes under the old contract while returning to the bargaining table to negotiate a new deal.

WestJet announced today that its pilots have voted against a tentative agreement by a margin of 58.7 per cent. Turnout was very strong, with 96 per cent of pilots voting.

“We are disappointed with the results of the vote,” Gregg Saretsky, WestJet’s president, said in a statement. “Our leadership team and the WJPA will regroup in the coming weeks, focusing on understanding the specific concerns of the pilot group and, just as we’ve always done, work collaboratively to bring forward a new agreement.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//report- ... e15679543/
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CanadianEh
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by CanadianEh »

I like the CEO's response and I hope he genuinely means it. What a concept... working together instead of the "Us" vs. "Them" crap at Air Canada.
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BE20 Driver
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by BE20 Driver »

If every company had the attitude that we're all in this together, just think how much better things would be - for everyone.

Just curious, what were the reasons for voting it down?
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MeAndMrPenguin
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by MeAndMrPenguin »

I like the CEO's response and I hope he genuinely means it. What a concept... working together instead of the "Us" vs. "Them" crap at Air Canada.
This situation is not that different than AC. TA1 bargained through interest based bargaining. The pilots reject it.

ACPA messed around with TA2 and the company stuffed them.

I am sure the company will give a bit and this will sort. 10 percent more to go...
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by AirFrame »

teacher wrote:The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association
See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?
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CAL
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by CAL »

so if you just keep rejecting it...you keep getting paid and working under the previous agreement.....which I assume makes you more money and works you less....so how many times can you keep rejecting it?
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teacher
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by teacher »

AirFrame wrote:
teacher wrote:The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association
See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?
You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.
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Optimus Prime
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Optimus Prime »

teacher wrote:You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.
Thanks for the lesson, Teach.
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by BE20 Driver »

teacher wrote:You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.
And thanks to the current government, joining unions is soon to be optional. How many teeth can you really have when big brother is standing over you with tooth extraction legislation at your first complaint of a little plaque?
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by FICU »

AirFrame wrote:
teacher wrote:The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association
See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?
We are in a union and got a lot accomplished with people working together and have a very good CBA. Maybe it's not the union that's the issue.
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Old fella »

Thing with a union(certified bargaining agent) are the legalities attached. You often hear as an example CUPE is in a “legal” strike position, in other words employees can’t be dismissed/sanctioned/disciplined by taking a “legal’ action. As for this WJ Association(non certified bargaining Agent) there are no legalities and no” legal” actions…………..

Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!

:drinkers:
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Boeinguy »

The fact that WJ pilots rejected the TA is not a big deal, so don't bother making a big deal of it. WJ pilots are not unionizing, however a small group of pilots were interested in that. A suitable agreement will be ratified at some point but that is now several months down the road. WJ pilots will see many CEOs come and go over their tenure and with that being said most WJ pilots believe Gregg Saretsky is doing a great job. Gregg is a great marketer and has the potential to take WJ to the top, however if you look at GS and the alaska airline pilots you will see a wide variance of comments about GS. We all have something to learn and GS has been learning to lead passionate employees. He has never lead a more pasionate group of professionals. WJ pilots will continue to work with, not against management but will not ratify an agreement that that is not suitable for the times. There is a lot going on at WJ these days and as all these changes mold together it will be easier to come to an amicable agreement down the road. When that happens is not important as he has the support of the WJ pilot group. The rejection of the this agreement is not a slap in GS face, but an opportunity. Thats how we roll at WJ.
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Donald
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Donald »

Does this agreement apply to WJ mainline pilots only, or Encore as well?
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Old fella »

The power to withdraw your services or "strike" if you want to call it that is a very powerful tool, one of last resort but it is a "legal" tool with a certified bargaining agent like CALPA or ACPA. You can turn down every agreement per week for the next 6 months but you have no "legal" remedies for any action to back up your outstanding issues.
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Krimson »

Surely management knows that and will work with the pilot group to reach a new agreement. If they force something upon the pilots which is unwanted, they know what the repercussions will be. Sometimes the threat of a union sometimes works better than the union itself.
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by The Raven »

Boeinguy wrote:The fact that WJ pilots rejected the TA is not a big deal, so don't bother making a big deal of it. WJ pilots are not unionizing, however a small group of pilots were interested in that. A suitable agreement will be ratified at some point but that is now several months down the road. WJ pilots will see many CEOs come and go over their tenure and with that being said most WJ pilots believe Gregg Saretsky is doing a great job. Gregg is a great marketer and has the potential to take WJ to the top, however if you look at GS and the alaska airline pilots you will see a wide variance of comments about GS. We all have something to learn and GS has been learning to lead passionate employees. He has never lead a more pasionate group of professionals. WJ pilots will continue to work with, not against management but will not ratify an agreement that that is not suitable for the times. There is a lot going on at WJ these days and as all these changes mold together it will be easier to come to an amicable agreement down the road. When that happens is not important as he has the support of the WJ pilot group. The rejection of the this agreement is not a slap in GS face, but an opportunity. Thats how we roll at WJ.
:vom:
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Old fella »

Krimson wrote:Surely management knows that and will work with the pilot group to reach a new agreement. If they force something upon the pilots which is unwanted, they know what the repercussions will be. Sometimes the threat of a union sometimes works better than the union itself.
Well in the long run , hope it all works out for your group. However, what is noted(on this site anyway) the discontent amongst your pilot group as 58% turned down your MGT offer and if I read correctly well over 90% showed up. Not a ringing endorsement by any stretch of the imagination but slightly over half are not happy and that would suggest some cracks in the WJ pilot family culture.

Best of luck to you

Cheers

:partyman:
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Tiny Voices »

Turn the clock back five and a half years to when we last negotiated an agreement and you'll see a near mirror image of where we stand today. Or you would if that vote had not been suspended after 27% of the pilot group had cast their ballot. Things got fixed then, and we ended up with a mutually beneficial agreement. No need to push the panic button at this stage.
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bearinmind
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by bearinmind »

Buddy of mine says things are getting ugly there, WestJet union supporters are being locked out of WJPA websites, No one is allowed to discuss the old TA. Bet that didn't happen 5 years ago.. Good luck guys and gals, we all support ya!
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Re: WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

Post by Old fella »

Betcha said union supporters will be labeled as agitators, shunned, subject to isolation/ridicule and considered persona non grata until they had enough and bail out. Failing that, have a slight slip-up and are dismissed for cause.
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