Encore gets one list and a new pay scale.

[Donald]

[quote="]Just talk to any Vancouver based 330 pilot at AC who's position got moved to YUL, and see how much input ACPA had on THAT decision.[/quote]

How much input did WJPA have when the ports were closed?

[DH772]

No union/association has a say in where and what their airline flies.
Just like WJPA didn't have control over port system closure.
And just like ACPA didn't have control over getting MAX rather than the NEO.

Nor should they have control over business made decisions.

[HiLo]

No union/association has a say in where and what their airline flies.
Just like WJPA didn't have control over port system closure.
And just like ACPA didn't have control over getting MAX rather than the NEO.

Nor should they have control over business made decisions.

+1

[bcflyer]

At least with Encore you are flying brand new (Jet like) performance aircraft and not some clapped out RJ200 or buzzing Dash8 300. The people are young typically and the environment positive. It only gets better from there. It would be nice of course to see a few things in the near term accomplished like 20% ESP and only 16 days on max. See what happens.

Ohhhhhh shiny new airplanes. Guess that makes the crap wages and working conditions all worth it.

With attitudes like these it's no wonder our industry is so messed up.....

[Old fella]

At least with Encore you are flying brand new (Jet like) performance aircraft and not some clapped out RJ200 or buzzing Dash8 300. The people are young typically and the environment positive. It only gets better from there. It would be nice of course to see a few things in the near term accomplished like 20% ESP and only 16 days on max. See what happens.

Ohhhhhh shiny new airplanes. Guess that makes the crap wages and working conditions all worth it.

With attitudes like these it's no wonder our industry is so messed up.....

Hate to say this but back in the so called "good old days" there were crap wages and working conditions but "shiny new planes" was far from the norm unless major carrier.

[airway]

The only change I see with certification is that I will no longer be allowed to speak directly with Management when I have an issue... I'll have to go through my 'Rep'. .

What pilot union requires this?

ALPA at Jazz encourages pilots to discuss issues/concerns with management, and if you are not satisfied with the response, then you contact the union. Sometimes I will get my reps opinion before I contact the company though.

[No Quarter]

Sadly twinpratts has his head in the sand. It's an in house organization by pilots that CARE about the company and don't like the direction we have been taken lately. I fully support the WPPA but would never have any issue with approaching management. That will never change.

Get informed and tune out the fear mongering already.

[Lateralus]

Sadly twinpratts has his head in the sand. It's an in house organization by pilots that CARE about the company and don't like the direction we have been taken lately. I fully support the WPPA but would never have any issue with approaching management. That will never change.

Get informed and tune out the fear mongering already.

If you think the relationship with management won't change if the WPPA or any other union comes to WJ you are dreaming my friend.

[dhc#]

I get a kick out of the mainline brothers and the thread drift into a WJPA vs WPPA pissing match.

Not on anyones side, one list is a great achievement for the future (cue the associated back slapping), but the fact remains negotiations on the Encore WAWCON remain a failure, very little gained unfortunately, and now, onto the widebody file, Encore will be on the backburner, this is as good as it gets.

[No Quarter]

MY relationship with them won't change. Keep your head in the dirt bud.

[bythenumbers]

There's been about 150 new hires at mainline over the last 24 months. Encore now has about 130 pilots. With a minimum flow of 25% to mainline the newest Encore pilot on the list right now will need to see mainline hire another 520 pilots before he or she flows over. With roughly 75 pilots hired at mainline per year that's a wait of about 7 years for anybody starting at Encore now.

Anybody that has a good 704/705 gig is most likely better off where they are now. If you want to work at WestJet I'd take my chances with getting hired off the street, it'll be quicker and you'll avoid Encore. Same goes for anyone thinking about Encore's direct entry captain positions, as you'll be slotted in at #130+ to flow over.

But hey, flow may increase to 100%, then it's only a two year wait!

[flyer 1492]

But hey, flow may increase to 100%, then it's only a two year wait![/quote]


Like THAT will ever happen

[PROC_HDG]

There's been about 150 new hires at mainline over the last 24 months. Encore now has about 130 pilots. With a minimum flow of 25% to mainline the newest Encore pilot on the list right now will need to see mainline hire another 520 pilots before he or she flows over. With roughly 75 pilots hired at mainline per year that's a wait of about 7 years for anybody starting at Encore now.

Anybody that has a good 704/705 gig is most likely better off where they are now. If you want to work at WestJet I'd take my chances with getting hired off the street, it'll be quicker and you'll avoid Encore. Same goes for anyone thinking about Encore's direct entry captain positions, as you'll be slotted in at #130+ to flow over.

But hey, flow may increase to 100%, then it's only a two year wait!

+1, this pretty well sums it up. And WJ mgmt would be stupid to go to a 100% flow at risk of cannibalizing encore's already low reserve of experienced guys.

[DaveP]

Hi Guys,
Just off on a few holidays but just reading the ol' av canada. What I can say wrt to the flow is yes, you can't flow a lot when you are still growing fast. Encore is extremely aggressive with growth right now. Having said that, we (WJ) are striving for 100% flow. As Encore matures it will be much easier to flow/take more pilots from them. If growth is light to moderate at WestJet - encore should have no trouble supplying the demand.
Another thing to consider is as Encore matures it can also afford to hire a less experienced pilot to sit in the right seat a little longer than current day.
People have the right to be suspicious, but that's the goal - 100%flow.(and it's great for moral)
Having come from Air Ontario and seeing the flow turn on and turn off during my short tenure there it certainly was disheartening at times. Pilots said the same thing back then too - wait to go directly to Air Canada....markets, economies, SARs, mergers (Canadian/CRA)all play a factor in flow.

At the end of the day, everyone can make their own decisions on where to go.(or try to go) I'm trying to put straight facts out there to assist with your decision.

[sanjet]

Hi Dave, is it correct to assume YYZ will probably be the only east coast base for WJ and Encore?

Thanks for your input, always appreciated.

[DaveP]

Hi,
I'm pretty sure that YYZ will be the only base that way for a while. I doubt further east would ever happen anytime soon. (not that I'm aware of anyway)

Cheers

[highlander]

Hi Guys,
Just off on a few holidays but just reading the ol' av canada. What I can say wrt to the flow is yes, you can't flow a lot when you are still growing fast. Encore is extremely aggressive with growth right now. Having said that, we (WJ) are striving for 100% flow. As Encore matures it will be much easier to flow/take more pilots from them. If growth is light to moderate at WestJet - encore should have no trouble supplying the demand.
Another thing to consider is as Encore matures it can also afford to hire a less experienced pilot to sit in the right seat a little longer than current day.
People have the right to be suspicious, but that's the goal - 100%flow.(and it's great for moral)
Having come from Air Ontario and seeing the flow turn on and turn off during my short tenure there it certainly was disheartening at times. Pilots said the same thing back then too - wait to go directly to Air Canada....markets, economies, SARs, mergers (Canadian/CRA)all play a factor in flow.

At the end of the day, everyone can make their own decisions on where to go.(or try to go) I'm trying to put straight facts out there to assist with your decision.

Well said Dave! We've come a long way thus far. Encore is still young. We have to let it grow and mature.

[TheStig]

Hi Guys,

People have the right to be suspicious, but that's the goal - 100%flow.(and it's great for moral)
Having come from Air Ontario and seeing the flow turn on and turn off during my short tenure there it certainly was disheartening at times. Pilots said the same thing back then too - wait to go directly to Air Canada....markets, economies, SARs, mergers (Canadian/CRA)all play a factor in flow.

At the end of the day, everyone can make their own decisions on where to go.(or try to go) I'm trying to put straight facts out there to assist with your decision.

Well said Dave! We've come a long way thus far. Encore is still young. We have to let it grow and mature.

Would you feel the same if Westjet set up it's upcoming widebody operation as a wholly owned subsidiary, hired direct entry Captains, others off the street and only 25% flow through from mainline? Encore isn't young, it's a brand, it should simply be seen as another type of aircraft being introduced to the fleet.

[highlander]

Sorry Stig- I don't see the similarities.

[flyer 1492]

Management will call it West Jet International and low ball the WAWCON's.

Flyer