Conspiracy theorists weep, we did go to the moon!

[The Old Fogducker]

Ooopps ... ya got the master plan confession outta me IABD ... you're quite a slick trickster and have me blowing my cover as to my secret mission in joining AvCanada when the forum firs started. I've been a deep plant all these years, assigned to monitor this site for the first signs of discussion regarding NASA. I'm supposed to deflect any fact-seeking free-minded aviation personnel from discovering the real truth about the Apollo Program.

Bird Dog, now I see your considerable internet experience coming to the fore, and I have unwittingly fallen into a dastardly scheme.

That was quite a feat laying a trap like that ... you succeeded in getting me to admit to my special purpose mission where talented KGB operatives like this one have failed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j104ciE-2CE

Next it will be an Uncle Joe Stalin style show trial, followed by an unknown number of years in the north, single-handedly loading single Otters all day.

Just so you're familiar with Show Trial courtroom procedure, have a quick look at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFB9G1HINXI

OFD

[culver10]

Carlin at his best!! (re: Bullshit) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA

[The Old Fogducker]

I like this George Carlin monologue ..... one about the most extreme environmentalist wackos that give Gaia only a few months to live unless we shut down commerce immediately. ...You know ... the nutcases that would blockade a road, go on a hunger strike, or maybe drive railroad spikes into trees so they can't be logged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw

[CelBatrin]

Carlin at his best!! (re: Bullshit) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA

Which naturally leads to:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 743189197#

Now lets watch this thread reach 10+ pages

For the record, I really enjoyed the Jesus section of this video.

[Cap'n P8]

Is that a dog humping a duck in your avatar?

Conspiracy theorists ... Bozos in my opinion.

The KGB would have loved to obtain some info showing the moon shot was a fake ... do you stunned idiots think there wouldn't have been tens of millions of dollars, innumerable beautiful and talented hookers, fast cars, villas, drugs, booze, fame, .....absolutely ANY enticement on the face of the earth that could be offered to a mere mortal who would bring forth the smallest bit of info the Soviets could have used against the United States in the propaganda war?

The mileage they could have obtained from that type of story in Pravda or Radio Moscow would have been incalculable....especially among those third world states where the populace was still peeing in their drinking water.

Somewhere in the hundreds if not thousands of people required to fake up a moonshot would be at least one person willing to sell the information to the highest bidder for his/her own ends. All you need to do is look at a piece of human scum like John Walker selling secrets to the Soviets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dC6vru4kk

Sooner or later, "the secret" (if it were true) would have come out. But then, the KGB weren't as accomplished at obtaining information as the "founders" of the conspiracy theory are they? After all, ..... those Cold War era KGB operatives were just such bumbling stooges they must have missed all those so-called "undeniable clues and facts" which prove the landings weren't real.

Of course, the KGB and Khrushchev were in on the whole thing too weren't they? Paid off by big oil money ... or was it big pharmaceuticals ... nope ... must surely have been Big Film Makers ...like Kodak and 20th Century Fox productions ... or could it have been Metro Goldwyn Mayer Films?

So what's my advice to Bozos who don't believe we went to the moon?

"Get stuffed!" or maybe "Flush your head down the toilet."

Am I mocking you nut case conspiracy theory types? Damned straight I am ... because you're friggin' idiots!

Oh, but then I'm part of the cover up team aren't I? Placed here to throw "real free thinkers" off the fact trail.

The Old Fogducker

[Spokes]

The thing about the internet is that it has given everyone a voice...but no one is really listening to other. *sigh* I never said I don't believe it. I'm saying there is much too much doubt back then given the limited technological circumstances and political climate (Cold War) back in those days to push sectors of the US government into a possible hoax. Soley based only on what we've been told...I don't know that it happened. AND NEITHER DO YOU. THAT'S MY POINT.

I have seen the picture, and films taken on the moon. I have seen the pictures of the landing sites taken by the Lunar reconnesance orbiter. I have been to the Smithsonian and seen the spacecraft. What I have not seen is any evidence whatsoever that this thing was faked. I have not hear any argument that casts any kind of doubt on it. That is my point that you do not seem to be getting.

You say that you just don't know, and are only asking questions. Yet when every question asked is reasonably answered, rather that conceded and say 'hey- maybe there is something to this', your response is to bring out some other argument- to date flawwed argument. This is why I am assuming you don't beleive it. I will however admit then that you honestly do not know and my assumption was wrong. Fair enough. My question to you now, and I have asked it before, is what would it take to convince you that there was not a huge conspiracy, and that 12 men walked on the moon?

Sorry, but that last post is moving you into tin foil hat territory.

You still have not explained how some missing data proves that the moon landings were faked. I will take it from your lack of response that it doesn't so that one is a non-argument.

The moon landings are on the record as having happened, I do not have to prove it.
Since you are makeing the fantastic claim, that the whole thing was faked, it is up to you to prove your case. You have not yet done that sir.

wow.

"The moon landings are on the record as having happened, I do not have to prove it"

Wow. You know what else is on record...Jesus walked on water. Noah was 600 years old when he built that ark. There were no POW's left behind in Vietnam. saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. So, I guess it's all true.

It has been proven conclusivly that a man cannot walk on water so I know it is false. The fact that it remains in a book that is somewhat dogmatically worshiped does not change that. I'll say it again- there is proof this did not happen. Proof, the thing the conspiracy theorists are still missing sir.

There is proof that the noah story could not have happened. I do not know anything about the Vietnam prisoner thing so I cannot comment on it, But there are a few thousand dead Kurds who might argue about the WMD thing. I will however give you that there were no nuclear weapons which I assume is what you meant. However after several years of crawling around Iraq I would say it has been conclusively proven that there are and were no nucs in Iraq. Again- proof is given. If you assume that every piece of evidence presented is part of a vast conspiracy, then there is no way to prove that any historical event happened, but you certainly can provide proof that something could not have happened. This is what I am looking for from you.

For me, the evidence I have seen, and the complete lack of any evidence to the contrary are enough to confidently say the 12 men walke on the moon.

Government do things perfectly and they don't lie because it is on record. A novel concept.

I gave you ample opportunities to help me understand if we went to the moon. ALL you gave me was regurgitated rhetoric COPY and PASTED from another site.

You had no real opinions I suspect. Just regurgitated rhetoric.

BY the way, It wasn't a tin foil hat...it was a titanium helmet I wore as a kid...to protect me from people pounding in falsehoods into the soft spot in our heads we were all born with.

Governments certainly do not do everything perfectly. I never said it was so. There were plenty of major setbacks and very public miss-steps made by NASA during the Apollo program.

Nothing I have presented is copy and pasted, save URL's for your convenience. Everything I have written on this thread are by me. I have spent an inordinate amount of time studying this subject.

[...]

Spokes...thanks for the replies. I have read them all. I wish I had more to add. The best thing I enjoyed about our exchange is the fact that no real insults were slung. I respect your opinion...even though I didn't really have one. Good to see someone sticking to their guns....even if, in my humble opinion, they're not loaded

break break---------


On the topic of wild conspiracies ... we need to close the loop on old ones...

"Paul is dead" is an urban legend alleging that Paul McCartney of The Beatles died in 1966 and was replaced by a look-alike and sound-alike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

I'm.just.kidding.

[The Old Fogducker]

What .... Paul's dead?

You can't go around spreading info like among the general population man ... they can't be trusted.

Mum's the word Bird Dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGtCALdRqgQ

[Spokes]

Spokes...thanks for the replies. I have read them all. I wish I had more to add. The best thing I enjoyed about our exchange is the fact that no real insults were slung. I respect your opinion...even though I didn't really have one. Good to see someone sticking to their guns....even if, in my humble opinion, they're not loaded

break break---------


On the topic of wild conspiracies ... we need to close the loop on old ones...

"Paul is dead" is an urban legend alleging that Paul McCartney of The Beatles died in 1966 and was replaced by a look-alike and sound-alike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

I'm.just.kidding.

Thanks, I enjoyed it. And yes, the lack of insults and personal attacks was a real plus. BTW my guns are now empty because I gave you all my best shots. I too really don't have much to add. Im sure one day you will see things my way.

[Morav]

Anyone who believes the moon landings to be fake, take the time to check this website out >>http://www.clavius.org/

[...]

Anyone who believes the moon landings to be fake, take the time to check this website out >>http://www.clavius.org/

Interesting. As my avatar suggests...I'm just going to keep kicking @ this...because it's in my nature

Anyone who believes the moon landings to NOT be fake, riddle me this...
The Hubble telescope took 20 years from its inception to its launch...20 years.
Yet in 1961 JFK announced to the world we will have a man on the Moon before the end of the decade.

20 years for a telescope with better technology and only 8 years to drive a tin can to the Moon, drop guy's off...'bounce around' and then come back during a immature time in technology.

All I am saying is to question the answers...

Let's post more useless website links to replace progressive thought. I love it.

[AuxBatOn]

Anyone who believes the moon landings to be fake, take the time to check this website out >>http://www.clavius.org/

Interesting. As my avatar suggests...I'm just going to keep kicking @ this...because it's in my nature

Anyone who believes the moon landings to NOT be fake, riddle me this...
The Hubble telescope took 20 years from its inception to its launch...20 years.
Yet in 1961 JFK announced to the world we will have a man on the Moon before the end of the decade.

20 years for a telescope with better technology and only 8 years to drive a tin can to the Moon, drop guy's off...'bounce around' and then come back during a immature time in technology.

All I am saying is to question the answers...

Let's post more useless website links to replace progressive thought. I love it.

Have you ever considered that Hubble can see very, very, very far in different wave spectrums? It is quite the piece of technology. Hubble was initially supposed to launch in 1983, but because of budget issues and the Challenger explosion, it was delayed until 1990.

Relatively speaking, the LEM is quite simple.

[...]

Have you ever considered that Hubble can see very, very, very far in different wave spectrums? It is quite the piece of technology. Hubble was initially supposed to launch in 1983, but because of budget issues and the Challenger explosion, it was delayed until 1990.

Relatively speaking, the LEM is quite simple.

They (Nasa primarly) spent only 800 million for a telescope...compared to billions spent to send a 12 guys on an all inclusive package trips to the moon...common now...they didn't have the budget???? Thta's a drop in the bucket.

I'm also not saying to refocus Hubble onto the moon surface. I know the logistics behind doing it is impossible as it stands. It's not built for that as we all know.

However before we go outside of this solar system, so to speak, with this topic...you're not suggesting the theory of Nibiru or the oort cloud and kuiper belt? Because THAT'S a whole other thread dude ...although, soon it will be a topic of "fun & interesting" conversation on this site when it comes time...some colleagues of mine that are reading this are chuckling I JUST KNOW IT!!!

[trampbike]

All I am saying is to question the answers...

Come on will you stop with that. Every "arguments" you posted here have been debunked by better informed people. Why don't you start by trying to question their answers before adding new irrelevant mysteries?

[...]

All I am saying is to question the answers...

Come on will you stop with that. Every "arguments" you posted here have been debunked by better informed people. Why don't you start by trying to question their answers before adding new irrelevant mysteries?

When I read comment like yours...I can't help but feel sad. Sad because this generation is so bereft of original opinion and worse...you crucify those that challenges those that wish to challenge the obvious faulty answers given.

I offer you Neil Armstrong's cryptic speech. Before you judge, turn 'off' everything you think you know in life regarding this issue. I don't expect you to agree, I'M NOT SURE if I agree...but it leaves me, and many others with doubt, despite all the "debunked information by seemingly better informed people".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQ3U-B9 ... re=related

Then capped off by Clinton bio book on page 156 regarding the Moon landing, a man that had access to sensitive information to such top secret documents. If you can't read between the lines...there's nothing anyone can say to you to even entertain the notion that it never happened.

as far as using "questions the answers" catch phrase...I'll keep using it because NOW...I know it bugs you...

[Brewguy]

This thread is awesome... the most entertaining thing I've read since the 'Freemen' were here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbdXt2K2 ... re=related

Sen. Lyndon Johnson: Was it them? Was it their German scientists, got them up there first?
Designer (Wernher von Braun): No. No it was not senator. Our Germans are better than their Germans.

...A great scene from a great movie!

And for you conspiracy theory types, this one's for you:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/co ... inces_neil

[trampbike]

All I am saying is to question the answers...

Come on will you stop with that. Every "arguments" you posted here have been debunked by better informed people. Why don't you start by trying to question their answers before adding new irrelevant mysteries?

When I read comment like yours...I can't help but feel sad. Sad because this generation is so bereft of original opinion and worse...you crucify those that challenges those that wish to challenge the obvious faulty answers given.

And there you go again... If you think that what let's say Spokes wrote on this forum in wrong, then try to prove him wrong instead of just adding stuff and thinking we are not able to question the official versions.

It a good thing to be skeptic, but don't go one way with your skepticism... If you want to be very skeptic about the official versions of everything, then be just as much (or a bit more would be even better) skeptic about all the opposing and mysterious theories.

Again, if you think that the Americans succeeded in making believe to the USSR that their moon landing was real while it was in fact a fake, than you really are a desperate case.

[...]

And there you go again... If you think that what let's say Spokes wrote on this forum in wrong, then try to prove him wrong instead of just adding stuff and thinking we are not able to question the official versions.

It a good thing to be skeptic, but don't go one way with your skepticism... If you want to be very skeptic about the official versions of everything, then be just as much (or a bit more would be even better) skeptic about all the opposing and mysterious theories.
Again, if you think that the Americans succeeded in making believe to the USSR that their moon landing was real while it was in fact a fake, than you really are a desperate case.

...you know what's funny...you're taking all of this personally

They say if you scratch the surface of a skeptic...you'll find a disappointed idealist.

If you want "official versions" on how true "minions" just believe what they are told...here's a couple...ONLY 39% of Canadians belive in evolution. That means 61% of Canadians don't believe in scientific fact and proof through anthropology discoveries.
-Here's something even more retarded...51% believe the world is ONLY 6000 years old.
-Hey 500 years ago people believed the world was flat because that's what the OFFICIAL story was @ the time people were made to believe.

The sad thing even after ALL we know, today religion is barely dismissed as past mysterious theories. PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN POUNDED INTO THEIR HEADS!!!!!!!! when in fact the supposed evolution of human intellect has far surpassed the shrouded mysteries of religion and those that control it.

The Chinese in my humble opinion are the most advanced socially and intellectually and they still have NOT figured out how to go to the moon with todays technology and tools. 2020 is the proposed launch date...HOW the phuque in 1969 Americans did it and televised it LIVE from 384,403 kilometres away when we can't even get a proper sat-phone signal with todays technology?!

The cutest thing about the American history is it's vast and extensive history in supressing the truth that contradicts it's BS. Galileo is one of my favorite philosophers that "questioned the answers" in Religion however Religion was the only source of any social & moral compass because IT WAS the OFFICIAL belief of anything at the time.


A man walking on the moon in 1969 holds as much fairy tale as Jesus walking on water in the year 30.

[AuxBatOn]

The Chinese in my humble opinion are the most advanced socially and intellectually and they still have NOT figured out how to go to the moon with todays technology and tools. 2017 is the launch date...HOW the phuque in 1969 Americans did it and televised it LIVE from 384,403 kilometres away when we can't even get a proper sat-phone signal with todays technology?!

I guess the billions spent were really just to create a hoax...

Can you belive that Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 probes (1960's technology), are expected to operate and relay data to Earth from WAY farther than the moon, until 2020? I guess this too is part of the hoax.

[...]

I guess the billions spent were really just to create a hoax...

Can you belive that Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 probes (1960's technology), are expected to operate and relay data to Earth from WAY farther than the moon, until 2020? I guess this too is part of the hoax.

I can't speak for the billions they said they spent...maybe it went to the Vietnam war...I have no opinion on any monies spent on NASA Apollo "missions" and where it went.

Going off on a small tangent here if I may:

I am a big follower of the Voyager 1 & 2 missions. It actually capivated my attention as a child, then teenager and into adulthood. As for sending still pictures from the outter reaches of space via binary telemetry versus live real time tv footage...you can't compare the two because of the differences in the logistics of transmitting information. It's like comparing an apple to trucks loads of apples.

Voyager 1 confirmed what we kinda mathematically figured out in 1971...Pluto isn't that big and we declassified it from it being a planet. I'm going on memory here. However a curious thing to note there is a Leonardo Da Vince drawing in both the V1&2 of the "Vitruvian Man"



I'm not sure why they sent this age old drawing up? Actually I do I just wonder if anyone else does. Yes this is a quiz...

As far as Voyager 1&2 are concerned, the data they sent back has some interesting stuff. Scientists always thought that Pluto was THE gravitational force keeps perturbing the two giant planets of Uranus and Neptune causing irregularities in their orbits. However it has been found like almost 40 years ago that Pluto was too small of a heavenly body to do so. So...the search continues regarding something out there beyond the furthest reaches of the known solar system is tugging at Uranus and Neptune.

end of tangent:


yea..moon hoax...still on

[canwhitewolf]

understand stanley kubrick -understand the shining -understand the fake moon landings perhaps

[Topspin]

OK, in that era the Russians wanted to do everything that they could to make the Americans look bad. You can bet your last dollar that the reds had radar and all sorts of other surviellence on the Apollo missions. If something was screwy don't you think the reds would have been all over it at the time?

Soviet probe Luna 15 was orbiting the moon when Apollo 11 touched down. They actually had to cooperate and share data to ensure avoidance.

[...]

OK, in that era the Russians wanted to do everything that they could to make the Americans look bad. You can bet your last dollar that the reds had radar and all sorts of other surviellence on the Apollo missions. If something was screwy don't you think the reds would have been all over it at the time?

Soviet probe Luna 15 was orbiting the moon when Apollo 11 touched down. They actually had to cooperate and share data to ensure avoidance.

1st...Mcrit; Pretend we are presently living in a world where real time information/communication didn't exist unlike how it is today, information was better controlled to the masses by the government. The world was never as connected as it is now...
do you think IF something "screwy" was going on THAT information would even see the light of day in the western world? Do you think the "SOVIETS" would even publicly admit they too were fooled IF they found out after the fact the moon landing never happened???

2nd...Topspin; where did you get that story? from the Americans? seriously. Show me a credible link where you got that and one from the Russians to support that statement.

[Topspin]

2nd...Topspin; where did you get that story? from the Americans? seriously. Show me a credible link where you got that and one from the Russians to support that statement.

Saw it on BBC program, Wiki supports as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_15

The mission was important in that it saw one of the first instances of Soviet/American cooperation when the USSR released Luna 15's flight plan to ensure it would not collide with Apollo 11.

Transcript discussing Luna 15 (Admittedly from NASA)

http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/08day3-a ... akfast.htm

[The available PAO tapes include a portion of this press conference, which relates to the flight on the Soviet probe, Luna 15. This is a transcription of that conference:

PAO: Ladies and gentlemen. I think all of you have the statement about Luna 15 and Frank... No sound? Alright.

PAO: Any sound here? Okay. I think you all have the statement on Luna 15 and Colonel Frank Borman's here just to answer any questions, and Chris Kraft, the Director of Flight Crew Operations is making his way in case you have some other questions about trajectories. So, with no further ado, we're open for questions. Rudy? Wait for the mike. [Garbled.]

Press 1: Colonel Borman. Did - did you ask or did they give you any indication what the mission of Luna 15 is?

[Microphone thump and laughter.]

Borman: That was a real burp. They said that it would remain in orbit - in its present orbit for two days and that they would notify us immediately of any - any future changes in the trajectory. They also said that at no time would the Luna 15 trajectory intersect the published trajectory of Apollo 11.

PAO: Hal?

Press 2: You say, ah, the length of the two days. In other words, from when were they counting when they said two days?

Borman: From 13:00 17 July, Moscow time.

Press 3: Frank, for audio purposes, would you briefly repeat what the press release says?

Borman: The press release briefly says that Mr Kraft - Dr Kraft - excuse me - called me and said, 'We're a little bit interested in what Luna 15 is doing and could you check with some of the people that you met in the Soviet Union recently and see if you can find out?' So I, after checking with the appropriate people, called - placed a call to the Soviet Union and talked to a Dr Keldysh, and to his assistant who speaks English, and asked them if they could relay us any information and explain the - that some - there was some interest, more than casual interest in it on the part of the flight operations people here in Houston. And they responded with a cable that I received at home last night that gave the orbital parameters plus the indication that we just mentioned that they would inform us of any further changes.

PAO: Howell Simons? [?]

Press 3: Could either one of you tell us how you interpret what you've just told us, that it will remain in the present orbit two days?

Kraft: Ha, that would be conjecture. So, your guess is as good as ours at this point. I'm an honorary doctor. [Laughter.]

Borman: If you're a doctor, I'd better move over [garbled]. [Laughter.]

Kraft: We could - I'm sure Frank and myself would probably come up with the same answer. We can only guesstimate what the Russians are doing in this instance. And we said to each other that probably, we would guess, they were doing a step-by-step program, just as we would do a step-by-step program in this country. And they've been flying circumlunar flights with their lunar vehicles and this flight is a lunar orbit flight in which they'll return from lunar orbit. It's a step in their lunar exploration program.

PAO: Harry Piece? [?]

Press 4: Can you translate these orbital parameters for us into an altitude, an apogee and perigee and tell us where this is with respect to the projected Apollo 11 trajectory?

Borman: Well, the eccentricity is pretty low, and the period is about the same as ours; two hours. We compute that to be 72 by 156 and an inclination of about 45 degrees.

Press speaker: Could you repeat that?

Borman: 72 by 156 and an inclination of about 45 degrees. 72 at perigee and 156 at apogee. Nautical miles, yes. I'm sorry. Multiply that by 1.82-something to get kilometers. [Laughter.]

Press 4: Can you tell us why you held up the announcement this long?

Borman: Pardon me? [Laughter.]

Press 4: If you got this information last night or early this morning, why did you hold up...

Borman: Oh we got the - I didn't - I didn't, quite frankly, didn't see any - I thought there wouldn't be any more news last night than there was this morning, and we... [laughter] ...put it out. I was at home.

Kraft: He didn't talk to me until this morning.

Borman: I didn't tell Chris about it 'til this morning. After all, the important thing is here that it isn't going to bother Apollo 11. So.

PAO: F. Carr? [?]

Press 5: Chris, could we clarify what you said, when you said a step-by-step program, and you said it was in lunar orbit and did you say you expected it to leave lunar orbit?

Kraft: That would be my - That would be my guess, yes.

Press 5: To return to Earth?

Kraft: Affirmative.

Press 5: Does that tell you anymore about the mission?

Kraft: Yeah, it says it's a lunar orbit mission.

Press 5: But you're a doctor. You're a...

Kraft: I'm not trying to be smart with you...

Press 5: No, no...

Kraft: I'm just guessing, and I think you would guess the same way, that the Russian programs traditionally have been very methodical in stepping through the various phases of an operation, unmanned, et cetera, before they do manned and they...

At this point, the tape ends.]

BTW: Luna 15 transmissions picked up some Apollo 11 transmissions from the surface. That was recently released, in the last 3 years if I'm not mistaken.

[...]

BTW: Luna 15 transmissions picked up some Apollo 11 transmissions from the surface. That was recently released, in the last 3 years if I'm not mistaken.

For all you kids out here that don't know the difference between raising & making an argument vs plain old arguing, I present you this. I am for the 1st time regarding this topic on here am REALLY INTERESTED now because someone (Topspin) has raised a valid argument...

a) Is Borman a Russian delegate? If not, what connection does he have to have an open line to the Soviets back then??
b) Where are these transmission tapes intercepted from Luna15? AND is there any distance telemetry data to back up that these Apollo 11 transmissions were made from the moon's surface to earth and NOT from the Earth's orbit to the Moon?
c) Is there ANY Russian news article or whatever else from the Soviets space program confirming they shared information with the Amricans regarding the LAT&LONG of Luna15 in order NOT to colide with Apollo11???