Nafta - a disaster for the Mexican economy

[fogghorn]

IMHO, NAFTA has been a disaster for Canada as well as Mexico, it has allowed unchecked rape of our resource sector, to the point where our raw logs are now being shipped to the U.S. for processing. That is happening, while our saw mills and processing plants are closing. The tar sands and reserves, and every major oil company operating in Canada, are foreign owned. We were sold out by Mulroney, and Harper, if allowed, will continue that sell off and exacerbate the bad effects of it, for the enrichment of his corporate cronies. Harper is keeping a low profile for now, he will be falling more into line with Bushco as time goes on. Every page in his playbook has been taken from the current U.S. admin, once he is done, Canada, for all intents will be analagous to the U.S.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0425-30.htm

[N2]

I agree...and for those that say it has created jobs look at the type of jobs. 10- 12 an hour jobs really don't cut it in this day and age. Or worse the big retailers that have invaded Canada pay even worse and have driven countless mom and pop operations into the ground. These my friends are the back bone of the Canadian economy and they are disappearing faster than money out of a pilots wallet!

[Dust Devil]

I agree...and for those that say it has created jobs look at the type of jobs. 10- 12 an hour jobs really don't cut it in this day and age. Or worse the big retailers that have invaded Canada pay even worse and have driven countless mom and pop operations into the ground. These my friends are the back bone of the Canadian economy and they are disappearing faster than money out of a pilots wallet!

How are they the backbone? If they are the backbone and they are diasapearing then why is the canadian economy booming? You would think if you removed the backbone of something it would collapse.

[N2]

How are they the backbone? If they are the backbone and they are diasapearing then why is the canadian economy booming? You would think if you removed the backbone of something it would collapse.

DD do your research then come back and ask the same question. Look at the stats of who employs the majority of people in this country. Small business.

[Dust Devil]

How are they the backbone? If they are the backbone and they are diasapearing then why is the canadian economy booming? You would think if you removed the backbone of something it would collapse.

DD do your research then come back and ask the same question. Look at the stats of who employs the majority of people in this country. Small business.

I'm not disputing that. But answer me why if our economic backbone is vanishing why does our economy boom?

[Bede]

You know something is working when everyone is complaining about it. Americans think NAFTA is giving them a raw deal as well.

[Wilbur]

The economy is evolving with or without NAFTA. The reality is that if you are poorly educated and unskilled, there is no longer much for you in the North American economy. Probably not much in Europe either.

Our (North America's) wealth, compared to most of the world, was created by us being able to do things others could not, and to produce things more efficiently than others. Efficient harvesting and extraction of raw materials, efficient transportation systems, and efficient manufacturing. Education systems that gave our best and brightest the knowledge and skills needed to develop technologies that nobody else could. An economic system that encourages innovation. We were always one or more steps ahead of everyone else. Now many other economies, most notably Asian, have caught up with or surpassed us in many areas of manufacturing technology and can make things of equal quality. Couple that with a cheap labour supply and pretty quickly the unskilled drone on a North American assembly line finds his value in the economy going downhill fast.

Say what you like about the Walmarts, Superstores, Costco's and other big box retailers, but they are doing nothing more than bringing efficiency to the retailing sector. If the mom and pop small businesses want to survive they will need to find niche markets that the big guys can't service. Not many people are going to pay extra just to keep mom and pop in business selling the same old stuff in the same old way.

As economies evolve there are always winners and losers. It is simply impossible for everyone to benefit equally.

[N2]

Wilbur small business simply cannot compete with the large big box stores. I worked in the IT department for one of the biggest hardware wholesalers in the world and I can tell you when they want a certain product to be exclusive they simply tell the manufacture not to sell to anyone else and because of the buying power the manufacturer usually agrees. Mom and pop shops cannot purchase for the same price point.

Every watch the 60 minutes show on how many small town companies like Walmart have ruined? LOTS!

[Dex]

I'm not disputing that. But answer me why if our economic backbone is vanishing why does our economy boom?

Communist China!

[Dust Devil]

I'm not disputing that. But answer me why if our economic backbone is vanishing why does our economy boom?

Communist China!

With that argument should we not say communist china is our back bone not mom and pop shops?

[Dex]

I'm not disputing that. But answer me why if our economic backbone is vanishing why does our economy boom?

Communist China!

With that argument should we not say communist china is our back bone not mom and pop shops?

Canada's current backbone its its ability to keep its currency value below the United States dollar. Our little economic boom is thanks to Communist China spending their large U.S. cash reserve, financing U.S. debt, and flooding both countries with ultra cheap product.

[cyyz]

Yesterdays Star stated that 80% of those "mom and pop" retailers take cash especially in the construction business.... So, the tax man gets screwed and so do the children, please think about the children.....

The big chains can only shelter so much of their cash...

Secondly, I've seen Consumers go bankrupt(or scaled back), texaco, kmart, you guys let the bay get sold off, Eaton's, simpsons....

Big doesn't mean crap, look at enron.... Frankly I'm not gonna drive to mom and pop in Mississauga for something just because it isn't "a big corporation..." and speaking of which, rambling man.....

Where do you buy your coffee? Is it the small mom and pop coffee house down by bloor and dufferin(Star Cafe?) or is it Tim Horton's, well when you stop buying your coffee at a big US corporation you can come back and play with the other children....

[N2]

Yesterdays Star stated that 80% of those "mom and pop" retailers take cash especially in the construction business.... So, the tax man gets screwed and so do the children, please think about the children......

Our loving government has pushed small business into doing so to survive...I know I do it and there is not a chance in hell I would change until I get the same tax breaks as the big guys. Face it the only reason alot of big corporations get away with what they do is because the gum-shoes are afraid to take them on, but the little guy they will hound the shit out of you.

For the record I practice what I preach...no Walmart shopping for this guy, I buy from the local hardware store not Home Depot and as for Timmies..they gotta have the worst tasting coffee out there. I also buy directly from local farmers when I can not from farms owned by large corporations.

Support small businesses before they disappear and you are held captive buy the Sam Waltons and Home Depots of business.

[N2]

We are taxed to death in this country and I have no problem paying someone cash to cut the greedy SOB's in Ottawa out of the deal. What do they do with it except piss it away.

[cyyz]

n2 I'm glad you do practice what you preach, you must be one of the few who does...

I'll look into it, but no promises that I'll change my ways...

[xsbank]

Right on, N2. And the rest of you, get used to it as you pilots are the anointed ones, those who are middle class get to pay ALL the taxes. I'm sick of getting screwed.

[PITA]

Subject: Fw: A taxing lesson
Sometimes politicians, journalists and others exclaim; "It's just a
tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact.

But what does that really mean?

Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the
following will help. Please read it carefully.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for
all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite
happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a
curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."
Dinner for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.
But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal.

So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce
each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work
out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a
dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine
sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for
being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they
might start eating
overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D
>>>Professor of Economics
>>>University of Georgia

[cyyz]

University of Georgia

And that my friends is in the US.

And when someone buys a pack of gum or pumps his car with fuel,

they all pay the same 15% GST + PST on the price, poor rich, black, white, chinese, it's all the same....

A tax lesson in Canada, Ontario.

[Dust Devil]

Subject: Fw: A taxing lesson
Sometimes politicians, journalists and others exclaim; "It's just a
tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact.

But what does that really mean?

Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the
following will help. Please read it carefully.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for
all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite
happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a
curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."
Dinner for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.
But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal.

So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce
each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work
out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a
dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine
sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for
being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they
might start eating
overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D
>>>Professor of Economics
>>>University of Georgia

This has been going around for a long time. That's why it surprises me that people can't figure this stuff out.

[goates]

This has been going around for a long time. That's why it surprises me that people can't figure this stuff out.

Obviously it hasn't gotten around far enough yet.