Why keep the brain dead/damaged alive?

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TopperHarley
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Post by TopperHarley »

SkyWolfe wrote:In that state, I hope someone that cares about me enough will smother me.
I'm sure Haz would love to smother you. :oops:
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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

SkyWolfe wrote:...words... you know what those words were? Please kill me.

....
Or.. don't interrupt my dream?
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Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

the_professor
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Post by the_professor »

cloudcounter wrote:Glen,
I dont think I equated the person to disabled or criminal but I did say that we have no right to kill people who are inconvenient and God will hold all accountable who do so.
It's not just about being inconvenient and astronomically expensive...

We can use modern medicine to aid injured/sick people to recover either completely, or at least partially after an accident or sickness, and they continue to be productive and meaningful. But should we be using it to keep vegetables alive? People who have no hope of ever making any sort of contribution to the world, aside from giving their parents some sort of bizarre satisfaction? People who have the same capacities, literally, as a plant.

Nature would never have allowed these "people" to survive beyond birth.
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Wild Cat
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Post by Wild Cat »

I'm sorry cloudcounter, but I believe you are wrong.
I've read the Bible, and I cant find anywhere that says that God came down to earth to make payment for sins. :?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. :shock:
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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

Musta been a Morman Bible WC :D
Take it from me- He did . No one else could.

Joh 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak what we know and testify what we have seen. And you do not receive our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

So there is a risen man in Heaven right now that will be coming back to rule and reign in His own good time 8)

Wild Cat wrote:I'm sorry cloudcounter, but I believe you are wrong.
I've read the Bible, and I cant find anywhere that says that God came down to earth to make payment for sins. :?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. :shock:
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Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

Poor logic - what if we discover medical means to resusitate them just after we decided they are cluttering up rooms and sucking cash that could better used for new stadiums or maybe gay retreats ? :D

or ..What if the ruling powers decide you Sir, are serving no earthly purpose and send you a black invitation?

Sanctity should be the swing vote I think
cc

the_professor wrote:
cloudcounter wrote:Glen,
I dont think I equated the person to disabled or criminal but I did say that we have no right to kill people who are inconvenient and God will hold all accountable who do so.
It's not just about being inconvenient and astronomically expensive...

We can use modern medicine to aid injured/sick people to recover either completely, or at least partially after an accident or sickness, and they continue to be productive and meaningful. But should we be using it to keep vegetables alive? People who have no hope of ever making any sort of contribution to the world, aside from giving their parents some sort of bizarre satisfaction? People who have the same capacities, literally, as a plant.

Nature would never have allowed these "people" to survive beyond birth.
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Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

Wild Cat
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Post by Wild Cat »

I know that Jesus came to earth.
but help me out here.
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is God?
I've read the Bible and I cant find a passage that says that Jesus is God!
Jesus always refers to someone above that is superior to him.
doesn't that contradict the trinity?
all is even?

I'm not looking for a debate, I'm just a sincere person with this question. :?
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TI-ANB
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Re: Why keep the brain dead/damaged alive?

Post by TI-ANB »

the_professor wrote:This is not a troll, it is a question based on the link below that I'd like to see debated.

If a person cannot eat on their own, cannot talk, cannot maintain eye contact, cannot bathe themselves, cannot move, etc, etc, etc, then what is the point of keeping them alive?

What does the person or society gain by expending the enormous resources required?

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/01/04/ashley.html
You obviously don't have kids

Leo.
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TopperHarley
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Post by TopperHarley »

Wild Cat wrote:I know that Jesus came to earth.
but help me out here.
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is God?
I've read the Bible and I cant find a passage that says that Jesus is God!
Jesus always refers to someone above that is superior to him.
doesn't that contradict the trinity?
all is even?

I'm not looking for a debate, I'm just a sincere person with this question. :?
John 14: 6-14... ".... Anyone who has seen me has seen the father.... Don't you believe that I am in the father and that the father is in me... believe me when I say that I am in the father and the father is in me."

Not sure if that scripture is what you are looking for. There is another quote in John 14:28 where Jesus claims that the father is "greater" than himself. I don't really understand the concept of the trinity myself, but there are scriptures that claim Jesus was with God for creation (the beginning of John, Colossians 1:15-21, etc).
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TopperHarley
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Post by TopperHarley »

cloudcounter wrote:Poor logic - what if we discover medical means to resusitate them just after we decided they are cluttering up rooms and sucking cash that could better used for new stadiums or maybe gay retreats ? :D

or ..What if the ruling powers decide you Sir, are serving no earthly purpose and send you a black invitation?

Sanctity should be the swing vote I think
There is a double-standard when it comes to this issue I believe. Christians argue that it is "playing God" if we decide to let someone who is suffering tremendously with no chance whatsoever of recovering, to die in peace. Yet they argue that we should keep these people alive by artificial means. Are we not "playing God" by trying to keep these people alive?
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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

Good question!
He did say ' before Abraham was, I AM'.
The I AM constitutes in Hebrew : GOD.
Even most of His disciples didnt pick up on it untill He rose from the dead . Peter by revelation from the Father twigged on Jesus as the Messiah that all men look for. The Catholics ran with this on a 'pope/mary' trip but God is not found in a building or by any priest except the High priest of all Creation Jesus! He forsaw that greedy ball of wax and said- 'No man comes unto the Father except by me'
and 'call no man Father'.
So if one has that revelation of Christ as God [ born again] then he is in , as they say, as Christ is the head of the Church built without hands and the believers are the living stones.
Mind you neither did the Temple priests realise that- He came to His own and they knew Him not but they sure did fear his screwing up the temple busine$$ lol
Still happening . :(
CC
if you really want to get into it a good study free download is at
http://www.e-sword.net/

ps That also makes God Jewish! :D
C-HRIS wrote:
Wild Cat wrote:I know that Jesus came to earth.
but help me out here.
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is God?
I've read the Bible and I cant find a passage that says that Jesus is God!
Jesus always refers to someone above that is superior to him.
doesn't that contradict the trinity?
all is even?

I'm not looking for a debate, I'm just a sincere person with this question. :?
John 14: 6-14... ".... Anyone who has seen me has seen the father.... Don't you believe that I am in the father and that the father is in me... believe me when I say that I am in the father and the father is in me."

Not sure if that scripture is what you are looking for. There is another quote in John 14:28 where Jesus claims that the father is "greater" than himself. I don't really understand the concept of the trinity myself, but there are scriptures that claim Jesus was with God for creation (the beginning of John, Colossians 1:15-21, etc).
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Last edited by cloudcounter on Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

Yeah, but who's standard?
Recall reading of a young man who was so called brain dead in a coma for months- he awoke one day!
Good thing the plug pullers didnt get to him.
We shouldan't underestimate the power of prayer as well - not usually what the medical community puts store by but God does.
Are we not 'playing god' by murdering the unborn?
cc
C-HRIS wrote:
cloudcounter wrote:Poor logic - what if we discover medical means to resusitate them just after we decided they are cluttering up rooms and sucking cash that could better used for new stadiums or maybe gay retreats ? :D

or ..What if the ruling powers decide you Sir, are serving no earthly purpose and send you a black invitation?

Sanctity should be the swing vote I think
There is a double-standard when it comes to this issue I believe. Christians argue that it is "playing God" if we decide to let someone who is suffering tremendously with no chance whatsoever of recovering, to die in peace. Yet they argue that we should keep these people alive by artificial means. Are we not "playing God" by trying to keep these people alive?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

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cloudcounter
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Post by cloudcounter »

Hey Wildcat
Which of the 66 books did you get stuck in? Gen1?
And what version of the readers digest? :shock:
Curious.
Anyway just to encourage you , you dont have a hope of understanding it unless you take Christ your saviour on faith. :D
CC
Wild Cat wrote:I'm sorry cloudcounter, but I believe you are wrong.
I've read the Bible, and I cant find anywhere that says that God came down to earth to make payment for sins. :?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. :shock:
---------- ADS -----------
  
Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.

http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm

Greg87
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Post by Greg87 »

If we didn't keep the brain dead alive, I think the pages of avcanada would be pretty empty.
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SYT_YYZ
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Post by SYT_YYZ »

IMHO...

The world could do with a few less people...
there are too many of them... a good pandemic is just what we need... and some will say.. "oh what about you mom, dad, sister and little old granny? you would like to see them go?"

No... i wouldnt... though, the state of the world today.. so many are suffering as it is... and the way we are going? well there will be a lot more suffering when the air is unbreathable, and the ground is unfarmable, and everything stops working.. evenutally we will all have cancer from all of our own pollutants.. and we will all be a bunch of kemo sucking.. pill popping... tube living desperate to survive veggies...

Ok so that is a bit extreme.. but its an extreme version based on a pretty true outcome (like i said if things continue)...

so at some point.. ya i think we all need to let go. I know that I would want my tube pulled.. otherwise, I would simply be something that eats poops and sucks more electricity, uses up more resources.. (i.e. the gas in the car people drive to visit me.. or the fossil fuels to produce the energy to light my hospital ward etc)... resources that already are coming soon to a shortage..

Survival of the fittest... not survival of those with the best health plan and most sentimental attatched relatives..
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SYT_YYZ
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Post by SYT_YYZ »

oh also... just a couple add ons..

for those who believe in god...

he still is doing population control..

he used to use pandemics (the plaugue etc).. but we have become to smart...

so now we have

tsunamis... melting ice caps.. and hopefully soon california will fall into the ocean.. (too bad its one state thats actually starting to become energy savy...).. and most of africa is taking care of itself with aids and such..

I hope have high hopes for bird flu.. asia could use a couple less people...
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2low
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Post by 2low »

lol.....you're awesome :D
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Wild Cat
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Post by Wild Cat »

Cloudcounter, I still cant find a strong passage that says that Jesus is God.
yes Jesus did come to wipe out sins, but what I am saying is, where does it say he is God?

The Father is God isn't he???
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