Education Myth Busted

[cyyz]

http://fox.com/areyousmarter/

Well fox, I mean folks... Fox has proven that a BA, PhD, BSc, BEng in basketweaving don't mean much....

Thanks for playing....

So next time you go around flaunting your pieces of paper, ask yourselves, "are you smarter than a 5th grader?"

Education, now just a quick windmill system..... Funny how big businesses have to rehire all the retirees because the highschool drop outs know more about the system than the Graduates....

[grimey]

Yea, next time I need to know Maxwell's equations, I'll be sure not to ask an electronics engineer, because a 10 year old who knows the 50 state capitals is far more qualified.

[hazatude]

The problem lies in the fact that no longer are today's youth in higher education to learn. Instead they are in higher education to recieve a piece of paper.

[Falken]

The problem lies in the fact that no longer are today's youth in higher education to learn. Instead they are in higher education to recieve a piece of paper.

You got it.. everything besides the most basic of jobs and trades requires (or at least highly favors candidates with) a bachelor of something... and then even if you want to do a trade, you have to go to school for it...

People don't go to university to persue research anymore.

[paralyzer]

So go. If you get a university education, you are likely to enjoy a considerably higher income than someone who entered the workforce right after high school, or even someone who went to college. In 2000, a full-time worker with only high school earned, on average, $36,000. Workers with a college certificate or diploma earned $41,000. But Canadians with a university certificate, diploma or degree earned $61,000. Over a lifetime, each university attendee will end up pulling in about $1 million extra.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/postse ... 492_136492

[cyyz]

But Canadians with a university certificate, diploma or degree earned $61,000. Over a lifetime, each university attendee will end up pulling in about $1 million extra.

That's fine, but atleast just say so. "I'm an idiot with a scrap piece of paper that's going to get me more money." But don't be telling everyone how you're "more qualified" or "smarter" and it was "so tough to do the 4 year program," blah blah blah...

Don't be thinking you're paper is worth gold vs experience when it comes to that Air Canada interview, don't mock others because you got an interview when someone else didn't and they have 10k TT and you have 1k.

So go. If you get a university education, you are likely to enjoy a considerably higher income than someone who entered the workforce right after high school, or even someone who went to college

Shouldn't the word be "WILL?" I mean, you could write an identical article and state "if you drop out, you will likely become the next Bill Gates."

and they do... =)

Of course, as a number of extremely rich and successful people have recently demonstrated, it is possible to be immensely successful, even without a university degree. In Forbes magazine's most recent list of the 400 richest Americans, only one of the top five, and three of the top 10, had a university degree. Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen, and Michael Dell all dropped out.

53 per cent of Canadians aged 25 to 34 have a college or university degree. It is something the job market increasingly expects.

Yet we have 60% living in below poverty levels and we have to keep raising the minimum wage, and welfare? And a bunch more begging for EI, so they can buy a type rating after their seneca graduation.

The truth is that, for many jobs, university is now a kind of minimum standard, as high school graduation once was

And some how everything became more complicated and this myth has been going around so long that,

93 per cent of parents with kids under the age of 18 hope that their children get some post-secondary education

Funny still, a few years back you could declare bankruptcy and not pay for your student loans back and all of a sudden the government has stopped that practice.

People with an education thought the world was flat and an uneducated dolt proved them wrong...... Just because society tells you its mandatory doesn't mean it's worth anything...

A high school education 30 years ago, you learnt how to multiply, today a high school education people are learning the alphabet. Standards have gone down so low that an you need the university degree to get where the boomers were in High School.

[cyyz]

Yea, next time I need to know Maxwell's equations, I'll be sure not to ask an electronics engineer, because a 10 year old who knows the 50 state capitals is far more qualified.

And that brings up another good point... Taxes, why am I taxed so much so a bunch of brats can go to elementary, middle school and highschool, and then the post secondary whinos keep complaining how it costs so much to go to university/college???

Since as you pointed out, everything before your BA is useless information, why do we pay for dumb kids to go to school??? Wouldn't it be cheaper to fund Universities at 100% and have kids go to school for free??

Why do we bother sending them to K-12, when we could just send them off to University when they turn 10? Imagine that, BA by the time they're 13, and if they were earning an extra million till retirement then, they could be earning an extra 2 million and since taxes are lower(we don't pay for k-12 anymore) they'd be earning an extra 5 million over there life.

Higher Education would be free and for everyone, and all the citizens would be making so much more, and we'd all be making an extra 5 million over our lives, being taxed less and having less worries no student debt/loans...

Our society would be full of smart People, 100% educated...

You answer that good sir.... =)

[invertedattitude]

I graduated highschool with a 70% average, never opened a textbook, I never went to University, and I'll come close to 6 figures this year with Overtime...

Way too many people go to university because "They don't know what else to do" Waste of money for the majority.

[splitpin]

Millions of "educated" people out there that are "book smart" and "life dumb"!!

[hazatude]

Millions of "educated" people out there that are "book smart" and "life dumb"!!

Writing that on the wall at work if you don't mind.

[grimey]

Yea, next time I need to know Maxwell's equations, I'll be sure not to ask an electronics engineer, because a 10 year old who knows the 50 state capitals is far more qualified.

And that brings up another good point... Taxes, why am I taxed so much so a bunch of brats can go to elementary, middle school and highschool, and then the post secondary whinos keep complaining how it costs so much to go to university/college???

Everyone (at least in my opinion) should have a basic general education. That isn't what college and university are for. It's hard to teach someone to do differential equations if they never learned math, or mechanical engineering to someone who's never taken a shop class.

Since as you pointed out, everything before your BA is useless information,

That isn't what I said. I simply meant that kids know certain things because they're taught in every school. Many of those things are completely irrelevant to most people in later life. I don't need to know how to paint a picture, I don't need to know the list prime ministers of Canada, I don't need to know the parts of a flower. Those things are useful to artists, historians, and biologists, just not to me.

why do we pay for dumb kids to go to school??? Wouldn't it be cheaper to fund Universities at 100% and have kids go to school for free??

Wha? So we shouldn't pay taxes to send dumb kids to school, and your solution is to pay more taxes to send more kids to more school? I must have read that wrong.

I think I'd prefer it if higher education were funded on a series of loans. If you maintain a certain GPA, then those loans should be forgiven. If you're wasting time being in school, it costs you money, and you find something else to do.

This is probably naively simplistic, and would probably fail in a number of ways. It'd also probably send our taxes through the roof, which I wouldn't like.

I don't think K-12 needs any major changes, just quality control. One year my half-brother's teacher didn't his class to phys-ed for a month, because she didn't like going up and down stairs. I'm fat, and stairs are hard, so you kids don't get exercise.

Why do we bother sending them to K-12, when we could just send them off to University when they turn 10? Imagine that, BA by the time they're 13, and if they were earning an extra million till retirement then, they could be earning an extra 2 million and since taxes are lower(we don't pay for k-12 anymore) they'd be earning an extra 5 million over there life.

Because most kids have no realistic clue about what they want to be when they're 5. I think I wanted to be a school bus driver, probably because the school bus driver was nice. Good thing I didn't have to pick then. At 5, they also don't have the necessary foundations to learn many advanced subjects. If instead of letting the kids choose, we're dictating to people what careers they're to go into, rather than giving them a choice, we're essentially forcing a class structure on people. That's slightly morally repugnant, read Brave New World. I do think that high schools should allow a more specialized education than they currently do, but there should still be a requirement for a minimum number of science, math and language courses.

Higher Education would be free and for everyone, and all the citizens would be making so much more, and we'd all be making an extra 5 million over our lives, being taxed less and having less worries no student debt/loans...

Higher education can result in a higher income, but only if you're smart enough to take advantage of it. I knew plenty of people in college who could only be described as morons.

Our society would be full of smart People, 100% educated...

Education and knowledge don't equate to intelligence. Knowledge (or the ability to aquire it and retain it) is a factor in intelligence, but it isn't the whole thing. And there are plenty of smart people who simply don't do well in school, for a variety of reasons. As others have pointed out, not everyone needs a degree to get a good job. And given some of the jobs that our society requires, I'd prefer it if not everyone had a good one, unless cleaning shit up is considered a good job.

Peter Gibbons: Our high school guidance counselor used to ask us what you'd do if you had a million dollars and you didn't have to work. And invariably what you'd say was supposed to be your career. So, if you wanted to fix old cars then you're supposed to be an auto mechanic.
Samir: So what did you say?
Peter Gibbons: I never had an answer. I guess that's why I'm working at Initech.
Michael Bolton: No, you're working at Initech because that question is bullshit to begin with. If everyone listened to her, there'd be no janitors, because no one would clean shit up if they had a million dollars.
Samir: You know what I would do if I had a million dollars? I would invest half of it in low risk mutual funds and then take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities...
Michael Bolton: Samir, you're missing the point. The point of the exercise is that you're supposed to figure out what you would want to do if...
[printer starts beeping]
Michael Bolton: "PC Load Letter"? What the @#$! does that mean?

[paralyzer]

grimey, are you a movie script writer?

cyyz is onto something about free education.

I had a few friends who had Degrees and they were smart. One guy got his Master's degree by the time he was 23. I doubt there are alot of educated morons like you said. Maybe you haven't had the opportunity to see the educated morons in action, demonstrating their smarts?

[grimey]

cyyz is onto something about free education.

I agree that something should be done so that wealth (or lack of it) isn't a barrier to education. But I don't think that means that everyone should have a free education regardless of how they preform.

I had a few friends who had Degrees and they were smart. One guy got his Master's degree by the time he was 23. I doubt there are alot of educated morons like you said. Maybe you haven't had the opportunity to see the educated morons in action, demonstrating their smarts?

I don't mean that all (or a large percentage of) people with degrees are dumb. But the ones that were sure stood out. I saw them demonstrate their "smarts" repeatedly in labs.

[goates]

People with an education thought the world was flat and an uneducated dolt proved them wrong...... Just because society tells you its mandatory doesn't mean it's worth anything...

Actually the educated people pretty much believed in a spherical Earth from the 1st century on. But don't let that get in the way of your point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth

Then again we can thank the US for the misconception that everyone thought the world was flat until only recently. Guess that kind of shows how great their education system is doing. Apparently in Europe people find it kind of funny that the US (and Canada) don't know the real history...

[cyyz]

Yea, next time I need to know Maxwell's equations, I'll be sure not to ask an electronics engineer, because a 10 year old who knows the 50 state capitals is far more qualified.

And that brings up another good point... Taxes, why am I taxed so much so a bunch of brats can go to elementary, middle school and highschool, and then the post secondary whinos keep complaining how it costs so much to go to university/college???

Everyone (at least in my opinion) should have a basic general education. That isn't what college and university are for. It's hard to teach someone to do differential equations if they never learned math, or mechanical engineering to someone who's never taken a shop class.

Okay, so add an extra year like the colleges offer a "university prep" course...

Why do kids who want to be lawyers need to learn math, why do they need to take gym and music??

It is similarly possible to learn to read without schooling, become a successful athlete without coaching, develop into a famous musician without formal music lessons, and put all of your money on the same number at a roulette wheel and win, spin after spin after spin. All are possible, but all are very unlikely. It all comes down to the laws of probability, and the difference between anecdote and statistically significant evidence -- all of which you may learn about at university.

Why don't we streamline education.

Why don't the kids who want to grow up to be NBA superstars get sent to a "gym like" school, why don't the mozarts get sent to a "music school." How is giving them a "broad general education" going to help them... Obviously, watching this show, all these engineers were once in grade school and obviously all that material is lost. So it was a waste of time for them going...

An entire year spent in grade 8 history learning about the Metis "revolt/uprising" and the only thing I can remember is louis riel(sp) and that's about it, and I'm probably still wrong about that...

So, if I actually wanted to learn about it, I could google it, or go to university and Major in History which you can also narrow it further and Major in Canadian History and I'm sure they have an even more narrow degree for the subject.

So the guy who googled it isn't an 'expert' the guy with the paper is some how.

But in the end, wouldn't it have been easier for that history BA to have spent his years learning history and not wasting time on math, gym, music, art, french.

If a child is a sponge until they're 6 why do we blast them with barney and teletubbies oh and in school, thomas the tank engine books??

If you want to be a mechanic you actually need to go to school to get that paper saying you can be a mechanic, even though your entire life you've been tinkering with engines, and when were you tinkering, not in elementary or high school, on your free time, and then they wonder why people don't go into trades...

[cyyz]

Wha? So we shouldn't pay taxes to send dumb kids to school, and your solution is to pay more taxes to send more kids to more school? I must have read that wrong.

I think I'd prefer it if higher education were funded on a series of loans. If you maintain a certain GPA, then those loans should be forgiven. If you're wasting time being in school, it costs you money, and you find something else to do.

This is probably naively simplistic, and would probably fail in a number of ways. It'd also probably send our taxes through the roof, which I wouldn't like.

The guys taking the bird courses would be getting a free ride... But fine, if we're going to give them a free ride on a humanities class or basketweaving, why couldn't we let them in at grade 9? That way, no more highschools, and all that funding could go to their university education...

The thing is, we're paying taxes, billions of dollars for the school boards, if 1/2 the kids are going to graduate high school and leave why not just let them go to a college or university for free and not have them bother with the high school part and that way our taxes would be going to pay for everyones university instead.. If they drop out of college then they'll be "college drop outs," instead of "high school graduates..."

Or turn 1/2 our high schools into vocational schools but make them colleges so that way people are getting a free college education at the cost of high school tax payer rate.

That's slightly morally repugnant, read Brave New World. I do think that high schools should allow a more specialized education than they currently do, but there should still be a requirement for a minimum number of science, math and language courses.

Tax dollars are just really really poorly spent,
Elementary - Tax man pays
Middle School(junior high) - Tax man pays
High School - tax man pays
College/university - You should go, but the money ran out, sorry... wtf is that? seems like we created our own class based society and mcdonald's is happy, high school teachers are happy.

Just elementary middle College and University

and to save even more tax dollars, after college only a few select "state" universities are free(and they eliminate bs courses) but you're more then able to apply to OCAD and get a BA in Painting or sketching or tiedie.

And the guy who just wanted to be a plumber/carpenter/mechanic is licensed and "educated" by the time he's 15...

[cyyz]

To figure out whether going to a prestigious university makes a difference, Krueger compared students who went to highly selective universities with another group of students who had also been accepted at one of those selective universities -- Harvard, say -- but chose, for whatever reason, to go to a less selective and prestigious institution.
Krueger's findings were a surprise. He found no appreciable difference in post-graduation incomes, 20 years

a stupid is a stupid does, and the other way around about smart people....

I just posted the show cause my friend called me about it and I found it amusing, and obviously the show would still have some sort of screening process for their "educated" contestants ensuring they got the "brightest" ones for the show...

But then it just had me wondering what a load of crap some of those "BA's" really are, and how society views them and how we cover RESP's. How we want "all the children to go to university," when that problem could be easily resolved by trimming middle and high school out and throwing in those wind milling "universities." Atleast that way everyone would have a BA, and then in 20 years like the article suggested, we'd all need MBA's and everyone would be getting told to get that and then 20 years down the road PhD's and then even further we'd be creating up new "education class" levels, but everyone with those papers would be the same at a grade 5 level...

Oh well.. Thanks to everyone for participating... i'm done ranting...

[FlyYukon]

I watched the end of One question.. well, the lady pulling out her hair in suspense as she gae her answer. In other words, I did not see what the question was. Her answer was Ostrich. So being a watcher of shows and cartoons that parodize Jeopardy, I said I bet the question is: "What bird has big eggs".

Then they showed her answer with the question.. I was right!!! I guess so was that lady. I want to get on that show!

FY

[Dash-Ate]

[xsbank]

If you don't wish to be educated, you won't be.

Certainly your disparaging comments about degrees shows that you take a dim view about the whole process. I suppose that when you build your dream home you will rely on a 5th grader to engineer it? You will have a 5th grader remove your spleen when you get in an accident? Maybe if you think 5th grade is the pinnacle of learning, get one to be your next copilot? Or get one to repair your car? Or your airplane?

I've heard a lot of twaddle and claptrap on this site but you guys take the prize. I'm going to nominate you for one of Haz's awards.