PILOTS NOT PAYING THEIR BILLS

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just another pilot
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PILOTS NOT PAYING THEIR BILLS

Post by just another pilot » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:42 am

By CP
OTTAWA -- Deadbeat pilots who don't pay their bills are gumming up the works at Transport Canada.
Last year, about 12,000 pilots had not paid the mandatory $55 fee for medical certificates they received from the department, says an internal audit. Some owe for more than one certificate.
Altogether, they owe the government more than a million dollars, three-quarters of which is over 90 days in arrears.
Tracking all those small accounts, and trying to collect the cash, is tying the department in knots.
"Collection difficulties and associated costs have increased," says the audit. The issue "continues to constitute a significant administrative burden to the department."

About 50,600 pilots currently licensed by Transport Canada for civil aviation are required to have regular medical checkups on a schedule that depends on age and type of flying.

Hey TC, at least admit it is a cash cow...
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Doc
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Post by Doc » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:06 am

Kind of brings a tear to the eye, don't it?
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shitdisturber
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Post by shitdisturber » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:14 pm

I'm "constituting a significant adminstrative burden" for the department? I don't know about any of you but my day's just been made! :twisted:
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Post by rigpiggy » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:37 pm

f--k em I still don't have a copy of the AIM.
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Post by trey kule » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:26 pm

Justferd:

You made my whole day. Now if we could get the other 28,000 mamby-pambies to grow a backbone we could get this whole medical fee thing so balled up it would end.

to the other 27,999 gals and guys out there....keep up the great work.Seems like they are getting the point.
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Post by Rockie » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:03 pm

I'm curious. Do you guys also refuse to pay for your driver's licence, vehicle registration, passport, birth certificate, hunting licence, fishing licence, boat registration...that kind of stuff? Or is it just that thing that allows you to make a living that you refuse to pay for?
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Post by Dust Devil » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:34 pm

Rockie wrote:I'm curious. Do you guys also refuse to pay for your driver's licence, vehicle registration, passport, birth certificate, hunting licence, fishing licence, boat registration...that kind of stuff? Or is it just that thing that allows you to make a living that you refuse to pay for?
Well maybe we should. This idea of paying for government services in fees is wrong plain and simple.
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Post by Cat Driver » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:03 pm

I'm curious. Do you guys also refuse to pay for your driver's licence, vehicle registration, passport, birth certificate, hunting licence, fishing licence, boat registration...that kind of stuff? Or is it just that thing that allows you to make a living that you refuse to pay for?
Actually Rockie the truth is we pay our doctors for the medical, the so called fee to TC for a piece of paper that can be stamped by the doctor for five medicals is a rip off.

But hey you have at it and wear a content smile as they sodomize you financially.
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Post by saucer_driver » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:10 pm

If the government did anything for this money maybe people would pay. Or if they billed within 6 months of the medical, or if they had to issues a new paper every time......reality this is a back door tax on pilots. If transport wants a piece of the medical pie collect it from the doctors or something.

We all pay licensing fee's, exam fee's and the doctor....what do you get in return, a medical that anyone could really do...it isnt that special,....the only bonus is the doctor touching your balls. Personally, and I think Cat might agree, I would rather pay a hot lady to do that. All I think we are saying by not paying is after getting felt up by the doctor why must we get f**ked in the wallet by TC.
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Post by F/O Crunch » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:34 pm

I just forked out 140 boners the other day to renew and the guy didn't even give me the courtesy of the ole' tactile inspection. Strangly I felt more violated that he didn't... :shock:
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Post by shitdisturber » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:39 pm

Rockie wrote:I'm curious. Do you guys also refuse to pay for your driver's licence, vehicle registration, passport, birth certificate, hunting licence, fishing licence, boat registration...that kind of stuff? Or is it just that thing that allows you to make a living that you refuse to pay for?
The Supreme Court has declared that user fees from government agencies are an illegal tax; what would you call the licence fee? As others have pointed out we're getting absolutely nothing for the money they charge us; no AIP/AIM whatever, a rubber stamp on your medical that your doctor actually does for you. They are pulling themselves out of all possible services where they may in any way be liable if something goes wrong. It appears that about the only thing the money I refuse to pay them goes to is their salaries and the cost of their pretty fleet of King Airs and Jet Rangers. If you want to keep on giving them money even thought they're charging you illegally and giving you nothing for it go nuts, but I'm not about to.
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Post by Widow » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:08 pm

:arrow:
shitdisturber wrote:They are pulling themselves out of all possible services where they may in any way be liable if something goes wrong.
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Post by CD » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:59 am

shitdisturber wrote:The Supreme Court has declared that user fees from government agencies are an illegal tax; what would you call the licence fee?
Actually, that's not quite what the Supreme Court said... The ruling in question was discussed on this thread:

Hands in our pockets, TC fees illegal!

See also the following information:

User Fees Act
User Fees Act Implementation
shitdisturber wrote:As others have pointed out we're getting absolutely nothing for the money they charge us; no AIP/AIM whatever, a rubber stamp on your medical that your doctor actually does for you. They are pulling themselves out of all possible services where they may in any way be liable if something goes wrong. It appears that about the only thing the money I refuse to pay them goes to is their salaries and the cost of their pretty fleet of King Airs and Jet Rangers. If you want to keep on giving them money even thought they're charging you illegally and giving you nothing for it go nuts, but I'm not about to.
More information on the history of the "fee" and what it is used for at these links:

AvCanada - Page 8, Post 199
AvCanada - Page 12, Post 284

Also, this "news" report :roll: was already being discussed at the following link:

Deadbeat pilots gumming up Transport's billing section
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Post by Rockie » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:56 am

Cat Driver wrote:
I'm curious. Do you guys also refuse to pay for your driver's licence, vehicle registration, passport, birth certificate, hunting licence, fishing licence, boat registration...that kind of stuff? Or is it just that thing that allows you to make a living that you refuse to pay for?
Actually Rockie the truth is we pay our doctors for the medical, the so called fee to TC for a piece of paper that can be stamped by the doctor for five medicals is a rip off.

But hey you have at it and wear a content smile as they sodomize you financially.
When you renew your vehicle registration every year you pay 75 bucks for a sticker. Do you withhold that too? Look, I'm not saying we're not getting ripped off for paying $55 dollars for a couple of keystrokes on a computer, but where do you think not paying is going to get you? Become enough of a pain in the ass and TC will simply withhold your privileges (for that is what they are) until you pay up.

We pay more and more for less and less service from the government and that annoys me as well. But my point is you guys are dickering with your livelyhood by refusing to pay for your licence. That doesn't sound too smart to me when you could refuse to pay for just about anything else, like your hunting licence for instance. How smart is it to shoot yourself in the foot like that?
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Post by niss » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:27 am

Rockie,

I think the issue is that in the past it went for something, and they took that something away, and now you still pay but get nothing. Wheras with your license plate, fishing & Hunting, etc. you still get what you got in the beginning, they didnt take the raison d'etre for the fee away but keep the fee.


10 points to me for using Raison D'etre in a sentance.
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Post by Rockie » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:46 am

You do get something for it Niss, you get to exercise the privileges granted on your licence for another six months (I'm older than you) and continue to earn a living. Now paying $55 for a couple of keystrokes in a computer might seem a bit excessive, but there is not much in this universe more inefficient than a government bureaucracy. Do you really think withholding payment for your licence is going to do anything at all change it? I'm all for complaining, but this is not important enough for me to jeopardize my ability to work by withholding payment for my licence. But fill your boots if it is for you.
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Post by niss » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:02 am

Rockie wrote:You do get something for it Niss, you get to exercise the privileges granted on your licence for another six months (I'm older than you) and continue to earn a living. Now paying $55 for a couple of keystrokes in a computer might seem a bit excessive, but there is not much in this universe more inefficient than a government bureaucracy. Do you really think withholding payment for your licence is going to do anything at all change it? I'm all for complaining, but this is not important enough for me to jeopardize my ability to work by withholding payment for my licence. But fill your boots if it is for you.
IIRC I pay the Dr. A hundred and change to make sure I dont have a stroke during a flight. If the Dr. Deems me fit than I get my medical. The reocurring $55 was initially to cover the cost of publications that only Pilots would use, hence only Pilots have to pay it. Now that those publications are no longer freely distributed that $55 is just a money grabber piggybacking off someone elses (The Drs) fees.

You dont find something fundementally wrong when we have to go into a Drs office and pay for a checkup when healthcare is supposed to be free and then pay the Government another $55 on something they realistically should have covered allready?
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Post by Rockie » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:20 am

This is a user pay society now Niss, unlike not too many years ago when the government was racking up billions of dollars in deficit each and every year. It is mildly annoying to pay for services out of pocket, but then again they are slowly paying down the 480 BILLION dollar debt WE owe. We don't know what goes into administering the aviation medical program and so we can only guess that $55 dollars is too much. On the other hand pilots are getting back their medicals under conditions that were unthinkable not that long ago so there are some good things happening in that department.

As I said, it's a user pay system. My sister doesn't pay for my aviation medical administration fee, and I don't pay for her dog's licence. I kind of like it that way. And no one got their medicals or books for free in the past, they only deferred payment. But like I also said, this is my livelihood and I will not jeopardize it by childishly withholding my medical administration fee. You, Cat, xsbank and all the others can if you want to and I wish you all the luck in the world changing the system.
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Post by kzcvtm » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:30 am

Niss,

You forfeit the 10 points for misspelling of 'sentence'

Sorry dude.

Back on subject...

BTW, someone has to pay for all the nice .pdf's on their website, not to mention the cost of server time, storage, internet usage, bandwidth, and on and on.

Yes, prior to the internet, the AIM needed to be published and distributed, but in the 'electronic age' we are in, how difficult is it to view it online? Obviously you have the time to participate in this forum on this subject - how much does it actually cost you to download the .pdf and view it at your own leisure?

Just a thought for the day....
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Post by niss » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:32 am

You also realise that there are people who own houses who dont have cars right? Yet these peoples property taxes are going to road maintenance. Why are ATC not being charged the $55? Some people don't watch TV yet public money goes to pay for A Part of Our Heritage commercials. Its not completely a user pay society.

If this $55 came in the very begining under a administration fee than so be it, but the fact is that if it was supposed to cover Pilot publications and othere areas of the industry that require a medical dont have to pay it because they arent pilots, means they arent administrating shit. Its a pilot tax plain and simple.
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Post by Cat Driver » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:05 am

but where do you think not paying is going to get you? Become enough of a pain in the ass and TC will simply withhold your privileges (for that is what they are) until you pay up.

Rockie, you obviously have not read to many of my posts, so let me fill you in on this subject.


Transport Canada under the leadership of and approved by Merlin Preuss a moral degenerate of the higest order has already witheld the " privilege " for me to work in my profession as pilot in Canada.

You obviously are very naive and experience insulated in aviation if you are so ignorant of how the system works that you fail to understand just how corrupt TCCA really is.

So you just keep bending over so they can aim all that sunshine up your ass.
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Post by Rockie » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:49 am

Cat Driver wrote:
but where do you think not paying is going to get you? Become enough of a pain in the ass and TC will simply withhold your privileges (for that is what they are) until you pay up.

Rockie, you obviously have not read to many of my posts, so let me fill you in on this subject.


Transport Canada under the leadership of and approved by Merlin Preuss a moral degenerate of the higest order has already witheld the " privilege " for me to work in my profession as pilot in Canada.

You obviously are very naive and experience insulated in aviation if you are so ignorant of how the system works that you fail to understand just how corrupt TCCA really is.

So you just keep bending over so they can aim all that sunshine up your ass.
I've read enough of them to know you have a serious beef with the department and Pruess. I don't know enough to form an opinion one way or the other. But what's that got to do with me or any of the other tens of thousands of pilot who do have our privileges? I still have to earn a living and will conduct myself accordingly, but if you want to pay me then I'd be happy to champion your cause. I have more experience and am not nearly as naive as you think Cat. And I have personal experience with Mr. Preuss that helps me form my own opinion thank you very much. I liken you with Michael Moore. You know doubt have serious issues, but everything you say about TC is spun according to your own view of things and may not necessarily be completely accurate. I'm not saying you're wrong, just a tad biased due to own personal experiences.
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Post by Cat Driver » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:52 am

I've read enough of them to know you have a serious beef with the department and Pruess. I don't know enough to form an opinion one way or the other. But what's that got to do with me or any of the other tens of thousands of pilot who do have our privileges?[/
quote]








Rockie the fact that you asked the question in red shows that you are totally missing the simple fact that if they ( Preuss , Nowzek, Sincennes and Sherritt ) to name the most powerful of this group of dishonest self serving thugs can do this to me then I would suggest that you should really be concerned.

I am certain that there are very few members of this group who have the background in aviation that I have and have managed to get through their career accident free with no reglatory record of non compliance to the rules.

What happened to me is simple.

I was not willing to accept bully tactics from a TC inspector who was abusing the power of the office he held. ( He resigned from TCCA two days after the RDG, TC saw the documentation of wrongdoing by said inspector )

When I went to Dave Nowzek with my complaint he and Merlin Preuss refused to do the jobs they are paid to do, ensure that TCCA is managed in a fair and lawful manner. They instead bankrupted me and my company to protect one ot their inspectors who was acting illegally...period....

So if they can do this to me they can also do it to you.....

Unless of course you are to cowardly to stand up for your rights and just accept unlawful actions by TCCA and allow them to operate in that manner.

And I have personal experience with Mr. Preuss that helps me form my own opinion thank you very much.
[/quote]


That makes this simple then Rockie, get in touch with Merlin and ask him why he will not respond to my issues?

And just to poke a stick at him tell him I am comfortable with alleging he is a moral degenerate on a public forum read by thousands of people....but of course we both know he is already aware of that don't we Rockie.
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Post by xsbank » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:56 am

I guarantee that Rocky will drive you crazy, Cat. The sound in the background you hear is the sound of readers screaming, running out the door and signing on with Jazz to get away from their computers.

I don't know how you do it Rocky, but you get under my skin every time you post one of your supercilious pompous bland postings. I hate conjecture, so if its not what you really do its what you sound like: I'm convinced, seeing how you have personal dealings with Preuss, that you either sit in a cubicle in Ottawa with piles of memos in front of you or you are an Anglican minister. And I apologize to any Anglican ministers who are reading this.

You're like the squeak in the dashboard in my car; the noise my stove door makes when I open it; the guy with the sign who stops you on the Trans Canada to allow 735 cars going the other way to use the single lane first; the guy at the bus stop who needs to tell you his life story and he's an accountant; the ghetto blaster on the beach when there's only one other person there; the sound of a Metro who dropped his checklist outside the terminal when you've already gone through screening; the shit that sticks to my dog's fur when we're both in a hurry;

Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!
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Post by Rockie » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:03 pm

I don't believe I said what kind of an opinion I have of Merlin Preuss, just that I have one based on my own experience with him. You can make all the assumptions you like on that score. You no doubt have a beef with TC Cat, but don't expect everyone else to jump on your bandwagon who don't. You're just not that important and very, very few people feel threatened by Transport Canada. And since you bring up your vast experience yet again, I'm pleased you have had such a long, interesting and fruitful career. Big deal. So have I and a lot of other people. Lots of people know more about flying airplanes than you do so enough already.

Xsbank.

It's Rockie, not Rocky. And I invite you to stop reading my posts before you give yourself a stroke.
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