Earth has cooled, researchers say

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xsbank
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Post by xsbank »

Warming, cooling, who cares. What is wrong with this planet is it is too crowded - there is simply too many of us.

How do you generate hydrogen? You need electricity. We are still making electricity with coal. Everyone use low-energy bulbs? They contain mercury. Battery-powered cars? Batteries contain toxic components and need to be charged by another fuel source. Organic food growing practices? Might be unable to feed the third world without huge food price hikes. Wind energy? Changes the pattern of the winds and causes temperature changes due to the law of conservation of energy. Use larger fish boats to catch more fish and conserve energy? Fish caught faster than they can reproduce.

I don't happen to agree with 'global warming' and I do know how to read. I also don't happen to believe that 'scientists' have the knowledge, the understanding or the right to frighten us with their latest funding issue. Eat eggs. Don't eat eggs. Don't get fat, you'll have a heart attack. Get fat, you'll survive an attack better. Eat milk. Don't eat saturated fats. Don't drink wine. Drink red wine.

Its all pop science and dovetails nicely into the scare-of-the-week and I don't buy it. Yes, China and India are scary, but we cannot stop them. The only way to stop them is an exogenous shock like a plague or a natural disaster. Humans are greedy and all the small dicks in China want what the small dicks have here, BMWs.

Most 'scientists' can't predict the weather for 24 hours or less. My mother's weather knowledge is always right. She says "I can see Vancouver Island, it's going to rain; I can't see Vancouver Island its raining.

Scientists change their tune weekly. We cannot even control a beetle infestation here - how the f*ck can you expect our 'scientists' to stop anything bigger? Most of the changes I've made in my life that might benefit us for 'global warming' also benefit me financially - that might be a clue, although recycling only takes effort.

I'm sceptical, cynical and completely ignoring newspapers and radio and tv news and much happier, thank you. Although you can be rational, C.J., you are becoming increasingly fanatical and I think you should take a week off the newspaper and watching tv and even posting here and see if you feel less frantic.

Fanaticism is scary. See exhibit A: Taliban
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Post by Dash-Ate »

Fanaticism is scary. See exhibit b: christians in the USA


Is this a picture of headley on vacation checkin out the locals?

:P

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the_professor
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Post by the_professor »

Rockie wrote:we will have cleaned up the earth, ensured permanent ecological survival,
That's funny. The dinosaurs weren't polluters, and yet something wiped them off the face of the earth. Along with the Wolly Mammoth and a shitload of other creatures that have been unable to adapt to a world that is in a permanent state of change, regardless of our influence.

Your claim of ensuring permanent ecological survival has no legs.
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Post by U/S »

I thought the world was supposed to be destroyed years ago by irrefutable evidence of acid rain?
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Rockie
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Post by Rockie »

the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote:we will have cleaned up the earth, ensured permanent ecological survival,
That's funny. The dinosaurs weren't polluters, and yet something wiped them off the face of the earth. Along with the Wolly Mammoth and a shitload of other creatures that have been unable to adapt to a world that is in a permanent state of change, regardless of our influence.

Your claim of ensuring permanent ecological survival has no legs.
Excuse me. Perhaps I should have said "we at least wouldn't be resonsible for our downfall", as the dinosaurs weren't resonsible for theirs. That better?
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Rockie
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Post by Rockie »

the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote:we will have cleaned up the earth, ensured permanent ecological survival,
That's funny. The dinosaurs weren't polluters, and yet something wiped them off the face of the earth. Along with the Wolly Mammoth and a shitload of other creatures that have been unable to adapt to a world that is in a permanent state of change, regardless of our influence.

Your claim of ensuring permanent ecological survival has no legs.
Excuse me. Perhaps I should have said "we at least wouldn't be resonsible for our downfall", as the dinosaurs weren't resonsible for theirs. That better?
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Post by the_professor »

Rockie wrote:
the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote:we will have cleaned up the earth, ensured permanent ecological survival,
That's funny. The dinosaurs weren't polluters, and yet something wiped them off the face of the earth. Along with the Wolly Mammoth and a shitload of other creatures that have been unable to adapt to a world that is in a permanent state of change, regardless of our influence.

Your claim of ensuring permanent ecological survival has no legs.
Excuse me. Perhaps I should have said "we at least wouldn't be resonsible for our downfall", as the dinosaurs weren't resonsible for theirs. That better?
Not really, because it has not been proven that pollution will cause our demise. Not in my mind, anyway. But you guys go ahead and keep laying awake at night worrying about it. Worry for me while you're at it, because I don't lose sleep over knee-jerk bandwagon science.
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xsbank
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Post by xsbank »

What I said.
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Post by Rockie »

the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote:
the_professor wrote: That's funny. The dinosaurs weren't polluters, and yet something wiped them off the face of the earth. Along with the Wolly Mammoth and a shitload of other creatures that have been unable to adapt to a world that is in a permanent state of change, regardless of our influence.

Your claim of ensuring permanent ecological survival has no legs.
Excuse me. Perhaps I should have said "we at least wouldn't be resonsible for our downfall", as the dinosaurs weren't resonsible for theirs. That better?
Not really, because it has not been proven that pollution will cause our demise. Not in my mind, anyway. But you guys go ahead and keep laying awake at night worrying about it. Worry for me while you're at it, because I don't lose sleep over knee-jerk bandwagon science.
Thankfully there are people with influence who do think about these things and countless other problems as well so that you don't have to. You can go back to sleep.
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Post by cyyz »

My favorite time happens when they all fly over the globe to some convention centre and do a meeting on their findings, and they all display their reports and data...

Funny how all these "scientists" and supporters and fighters for a green earth, left their 30 room heated/air conditioned homes(susuki/gore) all jumped into a 1000lb/min burning private jets, took a cab to the hotel, filled all the hotels, restaurants and printed alot of paper for their convention.

When they could have all stayed home done the meeting over web-phone/camera and used e-files.... :roll:

Live Earth 8 or whatever the latest one was, was a brilliant example of how the lemmings all work to craete a "greener earth" only did a few Euro bands express concern that the stages lighting was enough energy consumption to light a town for a year and refused to be part of a movement that was so detrimental to their own cause....

When you see an obese surgeon general telling you a big mac is bad for you and goes to BK for a whopper you got to wonder...

When the suzuki's and the gores tell you global warming is bad, and they all fly in their private jets(flying in general is bad) from their heated/air conditioned mansions you got to wonder(and this has been mentioned).

Also the sign that says "conserve energy" that lights up 10 blocks with lumination at night provided by some group, you have to wonder who's at the helm for all these activists/lobby groups...

"Do as I say but not as I do... " mentallity...

The guy getting paid by the oil companies driving a car is more credible atleast because he's doing and saying the same thing..
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Post by Rockie »

So Al Gore has no credibility, so what. So my doctor says I shouldn't smoke but he does, so what. It's the message, not the messenger. If you refuse to heed a message just because you don't much like the messenger how smart is that?

If I tell you to jump off a bridge just before I do, what are you going to do? Follow me because I have no credibility in not jumping off bridges? Even Jack Layton has had good ideas in his life although none come to mind just now. But when he has one should we reject it just because of who came up with it. Not very smart if you ask me.
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Post by cyyz »

Rockie wrote:
If I tell you to jump off a bridge just before I do, what are you going to do? Follow me because I have no credibility in not jumping off bridges?

So my doctor says I shouldn't smoke but he does, so what. It's the message, not the messenger

Even Jack Layton has had good ideas in his life although none come to mind just now. But when he has one should we reject it just because of who came up with it. Not very smart if you ask me.
Ummm, the lemmings do follow the politicians global activists, etc. Penn N Teller, BS episode PITA, they got hundreds of people to sign their petition banning H20 at the rally...

Atleast we the few with opinions, right or wrong atleast have opinions... The others guys who slam everyone else as "deniers" non-believers and now those who are tarnishing their messengers message as wrong yet follow blindly are the pawns the same pawns that elected a certain WWII regime... You tell them to jump they will, they're almost as dumb as the guys who blow themselves up for 72 virgins...

It's not the message, it's the messanger, I don't know about anyone else, but when I see a rich liberal/ndper wanting to raise taxes for the homeless while he's living in rosedale in a 5 million dollar 20 room house I have to wonder... He wants to help the homeless he can put them up...

It's been noted that if we had a pay tier system, no one would pay for social programs, because they don't use or want them... So it's some rich yuppy who forces the rest of us to pay, while he doesn't do or support his own propaganda...

If Jack had a "great" idea we wouldn't listen, they're NDPers, notice even simpsons, and the capitalists will tell you "communism looks great and works great in.... theory..."

Well guess what.... If it's so great in theory, why aren't all our banks, corporations, politicians, etc trying to go the way of communism, I mean no more poor, no more starving, everyone is an equal, no more glass ceilings, no more pollution cause we all ride the train to work.....

If your doctor tells you to stop drinking and yet drinks himself, don't you ask him "why do you drink???" Guess what these tree huggers are lemmings, they don't ask anything of their fearless leaders they follow blindly....

Maybe if you asked him he'll say, "well yes, it'll shorten my life by 1 year but I'll have a happier life for 40 years, and actually timmy, a happier life means a healthier one so actually doing that one bad thing may actually increase my life...."

So lets see, buying a "green" car at an extra 50k mark up or riding a bike from peel region down to Toronto, lets see, spend an extra 50k go more into debt, stress, wake up at 1am so you can be at work for 8am with the bike, leave at 4pm get home at 10pm on your bike...

Lets see global warming = zero, but you die 20 years sooner, because of stress, no sleep, no free time, and you probably die 50 years sooner because a car will hit you...

Or you can drive your car from Peel down to Toronto in 30 minutes have 8 hours more productivity at home and doing other stuff, you can buy a cheap car and now you don't have so much debt now you don't work 8-4 but 10-4...

So yeah, we're killing the earth, mean while every other human on this planet is doing the same.. If the earth dies, it won't be today or tommorrow, it'll be in hundreds of years, think of your "great, great great great grand children" lets see WWI, WWII, Korea, Nam, 9/11, IraqInII, Iran and NK on the way, please, I don't need to be worrying about great great great because I'd be surprised if my great great make it to the planet.....

I got the message, but it doesn't concern me, won't be around in 1000 years, and thats why your messenger drives around in a lincoln, flies on a private jet, because he's sending out a pointless message, and he knows he won't be around when it(may or may not) hit the fan and enjoys his free money.....
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Post by the_professor »

Rockie wrote: Thankfully there are people with influence who do think about these things and countless other problems as well so that you don't have to. You can go back to sleep.
I was sleeping well, but then rolled over and realized that the drivel from these "influential" idiots has got the population whipped into a frenzy over climate change. Politicians, having no balls, will try to appease the population by implementing measures that will cost us money and do little for the environment. I hate being taxed to fund measures that will be totally ineffective at stopping climate change.

Saying that we can stop climate change is equivalent to saying that we could stop the ocean's tides if we all just put our minds (and government policy) into it. It is a ridiculous notion. We have no such level of control over the environment, nor will we ever.

The climate is in a permanent state of change, will always be in a state of change, and no amount of Prius drivers and compact fluorescent bulbs will change that.

PS: China is now halfway to bringing over 500 new coal-fired powerplants online this year alone. Think your compact fluorescents are going to do a damn thing now? Think again.
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Post by corporate joe »

Same old blabber. You don't get it, you probably never will. Same old, ignorance, same old confusion between facts and opinions. Verbal diarrhea caused by mental cramps.

If you can't be educated, and if you are incapable of assimiliting new facts as they are brought to you, if you are incapable of breaking free from the dark box you were raised in, then you are no use to society, you are one of so many other "blinded by inherited beliefs" who will live in mediocrity without ever knowing anything better than what's in your backyard.

I pity you, I truly do. I get comfort knowing that you are nothing but a pawn and that your kind, even though quite annoying through man's history, always finish by being proved wrong. Then you die, and the next generation kicks in and the whole process starts again. History never learns, neither do simple minded ignorants.

With that less than eloquent reply, my days of killing time are over, time to head back home, so I am done with this thread. For now.

***passes the torch
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Post by cyyz »

corporate joe wrote:History never learns, neither do simple minded ignorants.
If we go back to circa 1200s and we all go back to our mud huts, stone castles and horse and buggies, guess what, we'll get rid of all of our pollution woes...

Some scientist in the past decided that we should "evolve" and "better ourselves."

Save energy, heck, start using candles, stop flying and ride your horse or take a viking long boat.

Wasn't al gore the "creator" of the "internet" the guy who also promotes "globalization??" Isn't globalization another step towards polluting our planet, I mean if we stopped globalizing went back to our small tribes/clans/serfdoms we'd have no more pollution...

Even his own rhetoric contradicts his beliefs...

That's the best way to save our planet tree huggers, we digress back to a stone age/bronze age type world, no more internet, no more cars, no more power plants... You guys start, we'll follow...

If you want to be true to your words you best be able and willing to make the greatest sacrifices, I mean we are talking about our planet, a planet that is only 2 minutes away from midnight....
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Rockie
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Post by Rockie »

the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote: Thankfully there are people with influence who do think about these things and countless other problems as well so that you don't have to. You can go back to sleep.
I was sleeping well, but then rolled over and realized that the drivel from these "influential" idiots has got the population whipped into a frenzy over climate change. Politicians, having no balls, will try to appease the population by implementing measures that will cost us money and do little for the environment. I hate being taxed to fund measures that will be totally ineffective at stopping climate change.

Saying that we can stop climate change is equivalent to saying that we could stop the ocean's tides if we all just put our minds (and government policy) into it. It is a ridiculous notion. We have no such level of control over the environment, nor will we ever.

The climate is in a permanent state of change, will always be in a state of change, and no amount of Prius drivers and compact fluorescent bulbs will change that.

PS: China is now halfway to bringing over 500 new coal-fired powerplants online this year alone. Think your compact fluorescents are going to do a damn thing now? Think again.
What you're not doing is making the distinction between natural climate change, which we cannot do anything about, and climate change caused by man made greenhouse gasses, which we can do something about. Your comments about China are well taken and they along with everyone else pose a huge threat. But since you guys seem to be all about credibility, wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to try influencing the China's without first cleaning up our own act?
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Earth is cooling, researchers say.

Post by pontius »

Corporate Joe wrote....".Verbal diarrhea caused by mental cramps.."


You really have a way with words, Joe. Have you a journalistic background?
I think that phrase is great, I will use it myself when the opportunity arises, if that`s O.K.
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Post by the_professor »

Rockie wrote: What you're not doing is making the distinction between natural climate change, which we cannot do anything about, and climate change caused by man made greenhouse gasses, which we can do something about. Your comments about China are well taken and they along with everyone else pose a huge threat. But since you guys seem to be all about credibility, wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to try influencing the China's without first cleaning up our own act?
Climate change caused by greenhouse gases is a theory that has not been proven. Therefore to even suggest that there is a difference between natural climate change and man-induced climate change is to make a distinction that is based on a theory, not fact. You make the statement as though man-induced climate change is a fact.

It is not a fact, it is a theory. A theory with lots of holes.
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Post by Rockie »

There is a difference between scepticism and closed-mindedness. Scepticism is good because it makes people take very hard looks at things before launching off on ill-advised schemes. Closed-mindedness is bad because nothing is accepted until it knocks your head off, and maybe not even then. I have no idea at what point the "theory" will become fact in your mind, and it doesn't matter anyway.
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Post by Spokes »

the_professor wrote:
Rockie wrote: What you're not doing is making the distinction between natural climate change, which we cannot do anything about, and climate change caused by man made greenhouse gasses, which we can do something about. Your comments about China are well taken and they along with everyone else pose a huge threat. But since you guys seem to be all about credibility, wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to try influencing the China's without first cleaning up our own act?
Climate change caused by greenhouse gases is a theory that has not been proven. Therefore to even suggest that there is a difference between natural climate change and man-induced climate change is to make a distinction that is based on a theory, not fact. You make the statement as though man-induced climate change is a fact.

It is not a fact, it is a theory. A theory with lots of holes.
Sounds like someone does not know alot about the scientific method. All science is theories. They are not proven to be fact, they are proven to be false.

A good theory is one that can be tested through experiment (amoung other things). If the test is run and the predictions made by the theory come to pass then we have stronger support for the theory. Remember reletivity is also still a 'theory', but the very fact that GPS works means that we have strong trust in this theory.

If we test a theory, and its predictions do not come to pass in experiment, then we must abandon the theory, or modify it. This inspite of all the previous positive experiments (assumeing no errors were made). Newtons laws of motion were (are) widely used in space travel. There was always slight discrpeancies that were usually accounted for by cliaming inaccurate measurement. It was not until Einstiens theories that these small discrepancies were resolved.

On of the poorest arguments that are made by laypeople (and I am one myself) is that just because something is a 'theory' we should not trust it. Darwins theory of evolution cannot (as far as I know) be directly tested, but there is a large amount of natural observations that support the theory.

That being said, I still feel the theory of Global warming is weak. There is some (alot) of evidence that supports it, but there is too alot of evidence against. Who's right? who knows?

One thing I have noticed is that the Global Warming camp seems to think it significant that many scientists agree, and therefore consensus makes it right. The thing is, it is never told how many of these scientists are actually climate scientists, and how many specialize in some other natural discipline. I would take the word of one climatologist, over 100 biologists, on a climate matter.

The other thing I have noticed is that the Global warming camp seems to sensaitionalize cosequences to far beyond what most of the theories really predict. This strikes me as something that is done from a weak argument standpoint.

The last thing I noticed is that both sides sink very quickly to ad homonim attacks. Things would be much clearer if this stopped I think. Comparing someone who questions a theory (as science constantly should do) to the Nazi's is not a great thing.

my $.02
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