Hippocracy and Propaganda - Iran and Israel

[niss]

I have only 3 questions, perhaps niss has the answer, perhaps it is someone else.

1. What would Israelis/neighbors call the perfect solution?

2. What would Israelis/neighbors accept as a compromised solution?

3. If Israel/neighbors does/do not get even what they want in a compromised solution and will not agree with any solution and it is apparent that no agreement may be had, exactly what then is the solution?

Obviously a perfect solution for the Israelis is all of it with no Palestinians, and for the Palestinians all of it with no Israelis. But concidering this is obviously impossible lets look at option 2.

I think that something like what was offerd by Barak at Camp David was an acceptible compromise. Almost everything given back and parts of Israel proper to make up for the remainder.

A big sticking issue is the Palestininan refugees. The Pals feel that the refugees should be able to resettle in Israel proper. If they should be allowed to all return to Israel proper why they should have their own state is beyond me. All the Palestinians should go to the new Palestine or immigrate to Israel subject to the immigration laws.

The problem is previously the Palestinians have been unwilling to negotiate. The Israelis would present a solution and the Palestinains would say no. No counter offer, no negotiation just ultimatums. That is not the way to negotiate peace. That is only a way to frusterate and waste time.

[bob sacamano]

israel builds a wall on palestinian land to isolate the palestinian refugees.

Way to make peace.

go israel go.

A Canadian jew, nevermind, ANY jew anywhere in the world, can go and live in israel tomorrow, yet palestinians who were kicked out of Palestine, and who are refugees in foreign countries are not allowed to return to their homeland, mostly since it's been erased off the map.

Again, isreal the peaceful nation.

go israel go.

[bmc]

Israel and the Palestinians deserve each other. Perfect match.

[bob sacamano]

Israel and the Palestinians deserve each other. Perfect match.

Amen to that!

But, does the world deserve all of their problems?

I wish we could put them both on some sort of an island, and let them have at it.

[bob sacamano]

Oh talking about a democratic state



Norman Finkelstein arrested in Israel
DesertPeace 24 maggio 2008


The American academic Norman Finkelstein has been arrested and ordered deported from Israel. Finkelstein arrived in Tel Aviv earlier today on his way to the Occupied Territories. He was immediately detained and told he is banned from Israel for ten years. He’s expected to be deported tomorrow. Finkelstein is known one of the most prominent academic critics of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.


JERUSALEM, May 23: The US political author and critic of Israel Norman Finkelstein was denied entry to the Jewish state on Friday, his lawyer said.

Finkelstein landed at Ben Gurion international airport near Tel Aviv in the early morning and was told by a representative of the ministry of interior that he would not be allowed into the country on ’security’ grounds, attorney Michael Sfard told dpa.

‘This usually means a 10-year ban on entry,’ Sfard added.

Finkelstein, who is Jewish and the son of Holocaust survivors, has written critical books on Israeli policies in the Palestinian territories and on what he called ‘exploitation’ of the Jewish tragedy during World War II.

Finkelstein has received with the fierce disapproval of some authors and academics, while others have praised his controversial works.

[niss]

Interesting that you should leave out the fact that he met with Hezbollah. But of course its convinient to ignore the fact that he met with enemies of Israel.

Why would your quote miss that?

Israel denies entry to high-profile critic Norman Finkelstein
By Yossi Melman, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Shin Bet, Israel

The Shin Bet security service detained and deported an American Jewish professor who is a prominent critic of the Israeli occupation when he landed at Ben-Gurion International Airport on Friday.

Professor Norman Finkelstein was interrogated for several hours and held in an airport cell before being put on a plane back to Amsterdam, his point of departure. Finkelstein said he was told he could not return to Israel for 10 years.

The Shin Bet said Finkelstein "is not permitted to enter Israel because of suspicions involving hostile elements in Lebanon," and because he "did not give a full accounting to interrogators with regard to these suspicions."
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However, in e-mail and phone interviews with Haaretz after leaving Israel for Amsterdam, Finkelstein said, "I did my best to provide absolutely candid and comprehensive answers to all the questions put to me. I am confident that I have nothing to hide. Apart from my political views, and the supporting scholarship, there isn't much more to say for myself: alas, no suicide missions or secret rendezvous with terrorist organizations. I've always supported a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders. I'm not an enemy of Israel."

Finkelstein visited Lebanon a few months ago and met with Hezbollah operatives there, and subsequently published articles.

Finkelstein, 55, has accused Israel of exploiting the Holocaust for political ends. He recently left DePaul University following pressure by Jewish organizations and individuals, including Professor Alan Dershowitz.

He also said in the interview that he was "en route to Palestine to see one of my oldest and dearest friends, Musa Abu-Hashhash."

Finkelstein said he was asked whether he had met with Al Qaida operatives, whether he had been sent to Israel by Hezbollah and how he intended to finance his stay in Israel.

"I was kept in a holding cell at the airport for approximately 24 hours. It wasn't a Belgian bed-and-breakfast, but it wasn't Auschwitz either. I had several unpleasant moments with the guards at the airport and in the holding cell, but since martyrdom is not my cup of tea, I'll spare you the details," Finkelstein said.

He said he eventually used a cellphone belonging to another detainee and called another friend he was scheduled to see in Israel, the journalist Allan Nairn, who called attorney Michael Sfard. Sfard met with Finkelstein and told him he could appeal the ban; however, Finkelstein said he has been to Israel at least 15 times and declined to appeal.

Sfard on Saturday said banning Finkelstein from entering the country "recalls the behavior of the Soviet bloc countries."

[Guido]

I was just thinking that maybe we should just build a wall around Israel too... nothing in, nothing out... let see how that goes.

Then I thought about that joke about the two guys who meet a genie and get a wish apiece... The Albertan says, "I want you to build a wall as high as the rocky mountains around Alberta so's we can keep all those damned Easterners out." The genie does it. The Ontarian then asks the genie, "So, this wall... is it sturdy? I mean, is it capable of holding back anything?" The genie replies that it's impenetrable by anything! "Ok," says the Ontarian, "Fill it up to the top with water!"

[Expat]

niss,
The fact that you back your arguments with newspaper quotes, proves that you are one of those Jews living in the west that knows practically nothing about Israel, except the propaganda in the papers, controlled mostly be Jews, including DEBKA.
The most arrogants Jews I met were not in Israel, but in the US and Canada, where they can easily be brainwashed.
The fact that you mention Burma is interesting, because everybody want to go there and start sh*t. It is strategically placed between India and China, and the west would like to have a foot there. They will certainly infiltrate through NGOs. You see I do not need papers to tell me that. It will never be in the papers.

[niss]

niss,
The fact that you back your arguments with newspaper quotes, proves that you are one of those Jews living in the west that knows practically nothing about Israel, except the propaganda in the papers, controlled mostly be Jews, including DEBKA.
The most arrogants Jews I met were not in Israel, but in the US and Canada, where they can easily be brainwashed.
The fact that you mention Burma is interesting, because everybody want to go there and start sh*t. It is strategically placed between India and China, and the west would like to have a foot there. They will certainly infiltrate through NGOs. You see I do not need papers to tell me that. It will never be in the papers.

I would like to think I am a little more enlightened then the people you speak of. I am an Israeli citizen and my whole family is. I dont just get my news and opinions from the papers. And as such I feel a more personal connection than simply being a Jew. I would think that as an Expat you would understand haveing such a connection to another country, same with BMC.

That post was a simple retort to sacamanos quote re: Norman Finkelstein getting denied entry.

[Expat]

No offense. I have had worse dicussions.

[bmc]

Niss...this thread, along with countless others, reminds of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. The proponents of either side of the argument seem to believe that a bigger hammer is needed.

The sentiments from both sides have had years and generations to become hardened. I, like many many people do not have an answer.

I appreciate your connection to Israel. As someone sitting in the bleachers watching it play out, without following Canadian media favoring one side, I have no skin in this game. I see both sides pointing fingers. Both sides are guilty. Both sides carrying long standing grudges. The media of both sides tells its constituents what they want to hear. The minute one side suggests mediating, his people mistrust him and he's dismissed. Too many brothers, uncles, sons, homes, farms have been lost to expect people to agree to stopping the pain.

How many more of these threads do we need to start to arrive at the same place?

[sky's the limit]

This should help.



Israel to build hundreds of homes in East Jerusalem

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israel has approved the construction of almost 900 new homes in East Jerusalem, a move that could hinder international efforts to secure a peace deal by year's end.


Israel is under pressure to dismantle East Jerusalem outposts like this one in Maaleh Hazeitim, seen in April.

The Palestinians hope to make East Jerusalem the capital of a future Palestinian state.

A spokesman for Israeli Housing Minister Zeev Boim said his office will issue a tender this week for the construction of 884 houses, 121 of them in Har Homa. The rest will be in Pisgat Zeev.

Both are neighborhoods annexed by Israel in 1967. The housing ministry said it timed the issuance of the permits to coincide with the 41st anniversary of the annexation.

Israel and the Palestinians are in peace talks that include the future of Jewish settlements and East Jerusalem.

In March, Israel announced plans to build 600 homes in East Jerusalem as part of the Jerusalem mayor's initiative to construct 40,000 homes in the city to ease the housing plight of young couples.

At the time, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice -- who was in the region to shore up support for the peace initiative -- said Israel should stop all settlement activity.

Largely at the request of the United States, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert froze construction in both Har Homa and Pisgat Zeev, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported.

The newspaper said Israel issued a tender last year for the construction of 300 housing units in Har Homa, sparking harsh international criticism.

As a result, Olmert said he will need to approve all future construction plans personally, the paper said.

[sky's the limit]

Iran 'not seeking' nuclear arms


Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also poured scorn on US "staggering to and fro"

Iran's supreme leader has insisted it will continue its nuclear activities for civilian purposes only and will not manufacture nuclear weapons.

"No wise nation would be interested in making a nuclear weapon today. They are against rational thought," said Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in a speech.

The comments come a day after the UN's atomic watchdog urged from Iran "full disclosure" about its atomic work.

Its report said alleged research into warheads was "of serious concern".


Iran is after peacefully using nuclear energy for the purposes of daily life


Some western powers accuse Iran of seeking to develop nuclear arms.

Iran has always denied such charges but has refused to suspend some nuclear work which could have military application, prompting three rounds of sanctions imposed by the UN.

"[Iran] is after peacefully using nuclear energy for the purposes of daily life and it will follow this path," Mr Khamenei said in the speech to mark the 19th anniversary of the death of the leader of the Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

"Contrary to what the enemy wishes, it will reach it [nuclear energy] with full strength," he added.

The speech also poured criticism on the US administration, saying President George W Bush and his advisers acted like "the mentally ill".

"Sometimes they threaten, sometimes they order assassinations... and sometimes they ask for help - it's like mad people staggering to and fro," he said.

European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana is planning to travel to Tehran soon to submit a new package of incentives for Iran to stop its most sensitive nuclear work.

Iran has said its nuclear activities, including uranium enrichment, is sanctioned under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty of which it is a signatory.

International Atomic Energy Agency is currently holding a week-long board of directors meeting.

On Monday the agency announced that Syria was to allow its inspectors to visit the country to investigate allegations that it was building a nuclear reactor.

[sky's the limit]

Israeli minister threatens Iran


Israeli deputy PM Shaul Mofaz
Mofaz, a former army chief, may be lining up a challenge to Olmert

A top Israeli official has said that if Iran continues with its alleged nuclear arms programme, Israel will attack it.

Speaking to Yediot Ahronot newspaper, Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz said sanctions on Iran were ineffective.

Mr Mofaz is one of three deputy prime ministers and the transport minister.

Earlier this week, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Iran's nuclear programme must be stopped by what he termed all possible means.


Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable
Shaul Mofaz

Analysis: Growing talk of attack

"The international community has a duty and responsibility to clarify to Iran, through drastic measures, that the repercussions of their continued pursuit of nuclear weapons will be devastating," Mr Olmert said.

Iran insists that its nuclear programme is for peaceful purposes but it is defying a demand from the UN Security Council to stop the enrichment of uranium.

'Attack unavoidable'

"If Iran continues with its programme for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack it. The sanctions are ineffective," Mr Mofaz told Yediot Ahronot.

"Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable," he said.

The former chief of the army and defence minister is one of several senior figures in the governing Kadima party who may challenge the leadership of Mr Olmert, who faces allegations of corruption.

The UN Security Council has approved three rounds of sanctions against Iran.

These include asset restrictions and travel bans on Iranian individuals and companies said to be involved in nuclear work.

The sanctions also ban the sale to Iran of so-called dual-use items - items which can have either a military or civilian purpose.

[Wild Cat]

I guess you cant say anything bad about israel, or else your anti semetic. I mean, dont people know already that israel is incapable of doing any wrong? Everything that niss says is in defence of israel and how good israel is. he fails to mention the good things from the palestinians. if you say anything bad about israel, like Bob did, then you are retarded and a bigot. He also tries to defend the bombing of a building by israelis as something "irrelevant".

[bob sacamano]

I guess you cant say anything bad about israel, or else your anti semetic. I mean, dont people know already that israel is incapable of doing any wrong? Everything that niss says is in defence of israel and how good israel is. he fails to mention the good things from the palestinians. if you say anything bad about israel, like Bob did, then you are retarded and a bigot. He also tries to defend the bombing of a building by israelis as something "irrelevant".

Wild Cat, stop being an anti-semite.

[Wild Cat]

[niss]

Has anyone seen You Don't Mess With The Zohan yet?