HST, Grant's Law, "Environmental" fuel tax, etc.

[Carrier]

Over the past two years or so various provinces, BC in particular, have dumped on the average working Canadian, substantially increasing the cost of living and the inconvenience of going about one's normal life. These impositions are separate from and additional to the normal differences in cost of living between provinces. The opposite should have been expected in view of the recession. Governments at all levels should have been going out of their way to reduce taxes and red tape to help businesses survive and preserve jobs.

How have readers reacted to these impositions? How have employers responded? Are people refusing to take jobs in the expensive and inconvenient provinces? Do they even consider these aspects when choosing between jobs in different jurisdictions? Are employers paying a premium in some provinces to compensate for these additional expenses and irritations?

A couple of years ago a pilot mentioned that North Cariboo Air pays extra to pilots based in NE BC because of the higher COL compared with Calgary or Edmonton. Is that correct? If so, well done to NCA. If it was correct back then are they making a further adjustment now for the HST? Do other air operators with operations in several provinces pay a premium to employees based in the more expensive jurisdictions?

In the past two years Mrs C and I have driven on several trips through most provinces, as well as a large part of the USA. We noticed the big cost differences in hotels, meals and fuel between jurisdictions. As people who always fill the car tank and pay cash we found Grant's Law in BC to be a major inconvenience. It's thick to expect us to pay first when we do not know how much the tank will take and what the exact bill will be. Mrs C had to go inside and stand by the cashier with money ready before they would let me fill the tank. With the majority of cars sold in Europe and elsewhere now being diesels it was disgraceful to find BC has an anti-green extra tax on diesel fuel to discourage the use of fuel saving and low pollution diesel vehicles. Why are they so backward and ignorant? We cut short our visit and left BC as soon as possible and have not been back. With so many tourism choices it is fairly easy to avoid those places such as BC who are greedy or obstructive.

With the Loonie being at par with the Greenback we are upset at the cost differences between Canada and the USA. Chain hotels are charging twice as much in Canada as in the USA for the same accommodation and service, food is about 30% cheaper in the USA at the same chain restaurants and fuel is about 20% cheaper. The fact that the Loonie is at par with the US dollar is no excuse for any price difference. Remember that every business and individual in the USA has to compete and get by with the US dollar being worth one US dollar! There should be outrage in Canada at this gouging. It is driving massive amounts of business and tax revenue to the USA. Many Canadian truckers and private road travellers are routing through the USA between Eastern Canada/Ontario and Western Canada. Many, including us, are now taking vacations to the south and many Canadians have vacation homes in the USA instead of in Canada. This includes cabins/cottages in the northern states as well as sun belt condos. Those running Canada do not have the country's best interests at heart!

It will be interesting to learn the views of others on these issues.

[Hedley]

Data point: a few days ago I paid usd$2.699 for a gallon of gasoline in the USA. With the dollar pretty much at par, that's 2.699 / 3.78 = 71.4 cents per liter, Canadian or American.

How much are you paying for gas?

Do you personally enjoy being financially raped? Is it a Canadian thing to enjoy being abused? Some kind of BDSM thing?

Do you care about all the businesses and jobs moving out of Canada because all of the costs are so high?

[Krashman]

Data point: a few days ago I paid usd$2.699 for a gallon of gasoline in the USA. With the dollar pretty much at par, that's 2.699 / 3.78 = 71.4 cents per liter, Canadian or American.

How much are you paying for gas?

All the extra government imposed taxes add up in a hurry...

[mcrit]

Data point: a few days ago I paid usd$2.699 for a gallon of gasoline in the USA. With the dollar pretty much at par, that's 2.699 / 3.78 = 71.4 cents per liter, Canadian or American.

How much did you pay in tolls?

[Rowdy]

Paid the same yesterday.. on a 50L tank its worth the 15 min drive across the line. especially considering the dollar was slightly above par.. We're runnin this ship into ground...

mcrit - $0 in tolls here. However if I want to go into town it's 2.75 to cross the new bridge

[North Shore]

MAybe we should let American pilots across the line to do our jobs - after all, the tickets would be cheaper then...

ETA: AND, with the size of the deficit and debt down south, a major re-adjustment in taxes is probably coming down the pipe..

[Nark]

Socialism is great, if everyone agrees to pay for it.

Me, and many millions of others don't want to pay for the Jerry Springer types to sit on their ass. Or the peace pipe smoking, protest everything crowd.

[Rowdy]

Yep, cut a bunch of the socialist programs and spending before driving my taxes up to an unreasonable level thanks.

[xsbank]

Beside the so-called "free" health care, what "socialist" programs do we have up here that the US doesn't have? Oh yeah, $7.00 a day daycare in Quebec, what else? Gun registry?

How does all that extra cash that we pay in taxes up here equate to DOUBLE freight and prep, up to 30% premiums on pricing on new cars that are built up here anyway? Priced a Harley in the US and Canada?

Something is wrong when we pay so much more yet they are still holding out their hats for more. HST, carbon taxes, you name it.

[North Shore]

Roads, Sewers, Water, RCMP and all of the other infrastructure that covers a country larger than the USA, yet with ~ 1/10th of the population.

[iflyforpie]

Roads, Sewers, Water, RCMP and all of the other infrastructure that covers a country larger than the USA, yet with ~ 1/10th of the population.

I'd say that the area that actually has those services is less than 10% of the USA that has similar services. Canada doesn't have a single Interstate standard highway that spans the country...

[200hr Wonder]

Typical Liberal BS. Then again the Right Wing pisses me off too.

Take for example "Grant's Law" in BC. Thou shalt pay for thine gas before pumping.

So for you not in the know the back story goes like this: A young man Grant De Patie, was struck, dragged behind a car and killed while trying to prevent a thief from stealing $12 worth of gas. A terrible and horrible thing to happen.

Somewhere along the line, and I was out of the province so not that up to date on local news, a law was proposed and passed that makes pre-paying for gas in BC mandatory. This pisses me off to no end. You can no longer stop at a gas station, pump some gas, check your oil, go to the store grab a cold beverage, a liter of oil, pay and leave. No you have to go in, trust them with your credit card, pump and then go back and pay OR use pay at the pump and then go and buy your $4 of other stuff using another transaction. Simply because the guvment passed a blanket law that really is way over reaching.

Fact: Many gas station owners where docking pay of workers when they had gas stolen during there solo night shift. It would be quite easy to loose an entire days wages and then some to a single gas and go.

Fact: Many gas stations where enforcing their own polices about not leaving the store during certain periods.

Why not make it illegal for a gas station to charge its employees for a gas and go? The employee would no longer be willing to risk their life for $12. The owner would then look long and hard at their bottom line and decide to implement pre-pay on a case by case basis. This would then give me choice as a consumer to avoid a pre-pay gas station if I so choose.

Also why not have work-safe-bc ensure that gas stations are enforcing their own safety policies? That is after all their mandate.

In the end the government just bans something and makes us all suffer. I bet if you went back 20 or 30 years and told people the concept of pre-paying for gas they would look at you like you are crazy. The government keeps taking and taking a little bit each and every day. Ban this, ban that, give me more money! Does not matter which side of the house you sit!

[FastFlyBy]

So for you not in the know the back story goes like this: A young man Grant De Patie, was struck, dragged behind a car and killed while trying to prevent a thief from stealing $12 worth of gas. A terrible and horrible thing to happen.

Sorry to correct, but just to make clear the horror of the incident.

He was struck, run over, trapped under the car and then dragged like that for blocks, essentially grinding him into the pavement. When they eventually stopped the car and found him, what was left of him was still caught underneith the vehicle.
The kids in the car said that they could hear him screaming for the first couple of minutes, but by that point they were too scared to stop.

[Siddley Hawker]

The kids in the car said that they could hear him screaming for the first couple of minutes, but by that point they were too scared to stop.

Boy, I bet those kids were traumatized. Did they get a healing circle for that, I wonder?

[Icebound]

Typical Liberal BS. Then again the Right Wing pisses me off too.

Take for example "Grant's Law" in BC. Thou shalt pay for thine gas before pumping.

So for you not in the know the back story goes like this: A young man Grant De Patie, was struck, dragged behind a car and killed while trying to prevent a thief from stealing $12 worth of gas.

... snip...

In the end the government just bans something and makes us all suffer. ...

Yes, these knee-jerk reactions are purely political with no grasp of the facts, the statistics, the history, the unintended consequences, the true costs.

And no, it does NOT matter which side of the house you sit on..... UNLESS.... it is the side which believes in deliberation, in study, in facts, and is willing to shut out loud ideological noises which.....while they may be plaintive, sad, relevant and compelling in the context of the few affected individuals.... are actually detrimental and irrelevant to the public well-being as a whole.

We do not want to be building entire beaurocracies, based on knee-jerk..... or do we????


...

...

[AEROBAT]

Roads, Sewers, Water, RCMP and all of the other infrastructure that covers a country larger than the USA, yet with ~ 1/10th of the population.

The big country theory does not add up. Over 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the 49th parallel. We are being gouged because we, the majority, WANT a nanny state.

[Topspin]

The kids in the car said that they could hear him screaming for the first couple of minutes, but by that point they were too scared to stop.

Boy, I bet those kids were traumatized. Did they get a healing circle for that, I wonder?

Just about:

WorkSafe B.C. says De Patie didn't follow company safety regulations that would have required De Patie to be kept inside the Esso station during his overnight shift.

WorkSafe B.C. says the station has a policy that after 11 p.m., customers pay for their gas up front at the service window or pay at the pump using their credit card. But WorkSafe says the policy wasn't properly enforced.

"Not applying the payment policies resulted in De Patie routinely being out of the store, and permitted him to pursue the fleeing car," says the report. "The late night payment policies would have prevented this fatality."

The report suggests station management knew that De Patie often went outside during his graveyard shift.

But gas station owner Barj Dhahan blames De Patie for the events that led to his death in March 2005.

"This employee chose to do something that he shouldn't have been done," said Dhahan, adding that De Patie knew the rules and had even signed a document to that effect.

As for enforcing the rules, the gas station owner says there was no reason to believe they weren't being followed.

"We did all the things that we felt we need to do to ensure a safe working place."

WorkSafe has ordered the station to improve its training and supervision of employees.

It's also reviewing a recommendation by investigators that the outlet be fined. A financial penalty could range from a couple thousand dollars up to $500,000.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... z0m92ggk00

[Siddley Hawker]

But gas station owner Barj Dhahan blames De Patie for the events that led to his death in March 2005.

Nothing like blaming the victim. Must be some kind of ideological knee-jerk thing, I guess.

[Topspin]

But gas station owner Barj Dhahan blames De Patie for the events that led to his death in March 2005.

Nothing like blaming the victim. Must be some kind of ideological knee-jerk thing, I guess.

In the context of what WorkSafe was accusing him of, it was the victims fault. They're suggesting that an employer is responsible for every single decision an employee makes? Was ServiceAir responsible for the un-harnessed rampie that fell out of the bucket last winter?

Of course, if the gas-station owner were to dismiss the victim for failing to comply with WorkSafe regulations, it would be wrongful dismissal.

The only guilty party is the teenagers, who are as of right now likely back on the street.

Auto-theft, theft-under-5 & manslaughter.....they got 7 years + time served = eligible for full parole in 2008.

[looproll]

There is an unofficial move to "Grant's Law" in Alberta as well. All through the North, due to increases in gas pump theft (wonder why), most are pre-pay now as per company policy. Some are pre-pay only on pumps that are farthest from the clerk (and video monitoring), or only during certain hours like late at night, but I've seen the current stations that are pre-pay only on all pumps start out like this.

[Invertago]

Hmmm, most self serve fueling airports down south are prepay, never been a problem. I never even noticed grant's law coming into effect when fueling my car I just swipe and pump, its faster then going inside to pay. Mind you I'm too cheap to get my Doritos fix at gas station prices

Grant's tragic death aside, society is not that honest. When I board a flight, I prepay my ticket, imagine if air canada tried to bill you for your flight after you landed? Big deal, swipe your card and pay first. I'm not in favor of government babysitting, except for the fact that there are so many babies misbehaving out there.

[Carrier]

Further to the issues mentioned in the thread title, remember that in the soviet socialist provinces of British Columbia and Saskatchewan citizens are forced to use the People's Insurance Companies for their car insurance. Abusive monopolies of bureaucrats such as Saskatchewan Government Insurance (SGI) and the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) give rise to stupid situations such as this: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... wsuit.html
Competent, legitimate and ethical insurance companies based in free market provinces are not permitted to operate in these socialist hold-outs. Do the politicians running these two provinces not understand that communism was generally acknowledged to be a failure more than two decades ago when the Berlin Wall came down? Do they not look at the successful province located between them and think that it might be sensible to adopt the same freedoms and policies, including lower taxes, that long term have made Alberta more successful than their provinces?
This is yet another deterrent to living and working in such jurisdictions, or even just visiting them.

Quote: "Big deal, swipe your card and pay first."
Invertago, not every one uses a card. Did you not read and understand my initial post? What do you not understand about this: "As people who always fill the car tank and pay cash we found Grant's Law in BC to be a major inconvenience. It's thick to expect us to pay first when we do not know how much the tank will take and what the exact bill will be. Mrs C had to go inside and stand by the cashier with money ready before they would let me fill the tank." It's all very well to have an "I'm all right Jack" attitude because you possess and choose to use a card(s) but you need to show some consideration for those who either do not possess cards or who choose to exercise their right to pay cash and not have Big Brother tracking where they have been and what they have bought.
By the way, when we pay for airline tickets in advance we pay cash. The same with train, ferry and bus fares and for hotels/motels. These prices are known ahead of time, unlike filling a fuel tank where the exact amount due is not known until the tank is actually filled!

[BoostedNihilist]

Further to the issues mentioned in the thread title, remember that in the soviet socialist provinces of British Columbia and Saskatchewan citizens are forced to use the People's Insurance Companies for their car insurance. Abusive monopolies of bureaucrats such as Saskatchewan Government Insurance (SGI) and the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) give rise to stupid situations such as this: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... wsuit.html

If there is going to be a mandate for insurance I would like to know that it is public, I have a problem with a mandate that makes me buy a service from a private third party. IF there was no mandate to carry insurance, I wouldn't give a shit, but since we MUST have it I agree with the principle of having a public provider. Besides, I think ICBC Is the ONE government 'agency' turning a profit...

Grants law, no matter how it was predicated is a complete load of shit. Who would take that course of action anyways... It is not legal for the owner of an establishment to hold the employee liable for losses like this (or even cash out of the till) unless there is a contract in place. Grant is culpable for his own actions, had he simply let them go (which was their intent, and I doubt he could say, and certainly could not do anything to stop them)... he would not be dead and there would be no need for this stupid law. who really thinks a tank of gas is worth a risk of life and limb?

Hero complex has been getting people killed for years, if someone wants to rob gas they will simply rob it... now, since they don't have the option of simply gassing and dashing we have kinda pushed the criminal into a situation where he might be more inclined to cause harm when in the past he would simply be a thief.

The unintended consequence of this law is that now, I can pump 19.30 worth of gas in twenty seconds and the remaining .70 in two minutes.. all the while watching the gas evaporate right out of my tank... Why do the pumps have to pump the last dollar so fucking slow?!?!

[grimey]

[Invertago]

Quote: "Big deal, swipe your card and pay first."
Invertago, not every one uses a card. Did you not read and understand my initial post? What do you not understand about this: "As people who always fill the car tank and pay cash we found Grant's Law in BC to be a major inconvenience. It's thick to expect us to pay first when we do not know how much the tank will take and what the exact bill will be. Mrs C had to go inside and stand by the cashier with money ready before they would let me fill the tank." It's all very well to have an "I'm all right Jack" attitude because you possess and choose to use a card(s) but you need to show some consideration for those who either do not possess cards or who choose to exercise their right to pay cash and not have Big Brother tracking where they have been and what they have bought.
By the way, when we pay for airline tickets in advance we pay cash. The same with train, ferry and bus fares and for hotels/motels. These prices are known ahead of time, unlike filling a fuel tank where the exact amount due is not known until the tank is actually filled![/quote]

I've paid cash for gas (sometimes i have too much cash after getting paid under the table ), take just as long to pay before or after, mind you I know how much I want ahead of time, car has a 50L tank, so I ask for $30, works every time (I only ever fill when I'm down to 1/4), cards where faster before, and are faster now.

If you pay cash, you have to line up before or after, card at the pump has always been faster. I think its a great law protecting station owners and overly keen teens at their first job. It is only an inconvenience if you let it be. Maybe you are failing to adapt?

Oh, and you say airline prices are known ahead of time??? LMAO, sure they are, Vancouver to Calgary, $59, oh forgot the tax, the airport improvement fee, the fuel surcharge the security fee the.... I've lost track of all the hidden fees, but the price isn't known in advance unless you take the time to add it all up, but I forgot you're late and in a rush because you had to line up at the gas station lol.