Conservatives to scrap the Long Gun Registry

[Hedley]

This discussion - a bunch of white guys sitting around, arguing how rifles in Manitoba affects the smuggled handgun crime rate in Toronto - is almost as funny and tragic as a bunch of old men judges sitting around, arguing if a teenage girl can have an abortion or not.

[Posthumane]

Well Hedley, I guess some people need statistics and proof to demonstrate the obvious. Torontonians see their nightclubs getting shot up, and they decide that they need to get rid of firearms everywhere, because a) they're the centre of the universe, and b) clearly the guns are the problem, not the people using them.

Also, I'm highly insulted at your racist term "white!" We prefer to be called melanin deficient Canadians with lightly sunburned posterior neck areas.

[Hedley]

I prefer "pigment-challenged".

[Giveitago]

For those that are interested in some real numbers regarding the LGR.

The Long-Gun Registry: Costs and Crime Statistics
Costs
■In 1995, the previous government told Parliament that the firearms program, most specifically the long-gun registry, would involve a net cost of just $2 million (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
■In May 2000, the previous government admitted that the costs had actually ballooned to at least $327 million (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
■By March 2005 the net cost of the firearms program was $946 million and by summer of 2006, costs had exceeded $1 billion. The Auditor General stated that Parliament was misinformed about many of these costs. (Auditor General's Report 2006, Chapter 4).
■Neither the costs incurred by provincial and territorial agencies in enforcing the legislation, nor the costs borne by Firearms owners and businesses to comply with the legislation have been calculated. (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
■Two Library of Parliament studies estimate that the enforcement and compliance costs are substantial, running into hundreds of millions of dollars. (Compliance Costs of Firearms Registration, 10 October 2003; and, Estimates of Some of the Costs of Enforcing the Firearms Act, 20 March 2003).
Crime Statistics
■There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered. (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics).
■Illegal smuggling by organized crime is by far the principal source of firearms on our streets. Indeed, the Vancouver police report that 97 percent of firearms seized in 2003 were illegal guns smuggled in from the United States, usually by organized crime (Vancouver Police, Strategic Plan 2004-08).

[robertsailor1]

What they fail to tell you is that of those deaths from registered long guns were mostly from suicides. The long gun registry is a joke and always will be. The Liberals have been very successful in scaring women and capturing their vote so points to them!

[Giveitago]

What they fail to tell you is that of those deaths from registered long guns were mostly from suicides. The long gun registry is a joke and always will be. The Liberals have been very successful in scaring women and capturing their vote so points to them!

There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered. (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics).

This particular stat is dealing specifically with homicides.

But many times "GUN DEATHS" is a number that is used in studies and yes they do not differentiate suicides.

And the suicide rate has remained constant (per population), the method may change but the outcome does not.

And you're right, the libs and ndp have been very succesfull in using Fear and ignorance in this debate.

[Slats]

■There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered. (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics).

This fact alone should convince anyone with half a brain that the LGR has been, and continues to be a colossal waste of money and resources and completely ineffective in acheiving what it was supposedly implemented for. How can anyone read that fact and still believe it is worth throwing money at?

[Expat]

Like CATSA. What is the decrease in aviation deaths, attributable to the millions invested there?

[trey kule]

The usual argument people trot out to your question, is that if it prevents just one death...just one...it is worth it. It is a great argument because if you dispute it you are an insensitive right wing creepo who puts money before people.

Behind closed doors , where people have to make hard money decisions, the question is answered much differently.

[Posthumane]

The usual argument people trot out to your question, is that if it prevents just one death...just one...it is worth it. It is a great argument because if you dispute it you are an insensitive right wing creepo who puts money before people.

The correct counterargument to use when someone says that is that the money could be used to save more lives if it were spent on something useful (like, say, healthcare, medical research, automotive safety, etc.) and that by squandering on the gun registry you are in fact blocking the prevention of deaths.

Of course, you could also use the counterargument that more lives isn't necessarily a good thing on an already overpopulated planet, but that does usually make you look like a cold hearted bastard. Although, honestly, a population reduction is an effective solution to many different problems - food shortage, oil shortage, pollution...

[Expat]

Doing a budget, is like walking down main street, with your pay cheque in the back pocket. Where do you go first? Beer store? Grocery for the family? Shoes for the kids? Medication for the sick wife? A new computer? Pay the back taxes, before they repo the house?
What matters to one person, should also matter to a democratic government.

[trey kule]

Well, now that we have completely gone off track, there is a great book written years ago..Wish I could remember the name of the author...he wrote for Rolling Stone. In any event the book is entitled "Give War a Chance". Worth a read if you are one of those (like myself) who sees most of the worlds pollution, emissions, and consumption of resources problems as being caused by overpopulation.

[Expat]

Well, now that we have completely gone off track, there is a great book written years ago..Wish I could remember the name of the author...he wrote for Rolling Stone. In any event the book is entitled "Give War a Chance". Worth a read if you are one of those (like myself) who sees most of the worlds pollution, emissions, and consumption of resources problems as being caused by overpopulation.

Funny post from someone from the least densily populated country on earth, except for Greenland...

[trey kule]

What can I say expat? I am just a globally thinking type of person. Concerned with the good of the world. Though your comments make me think you might not want to know how I think we should deal with garbage.
I assume you are referring to Canada..Yes low population density but most of it owned by just a very few (think Nunavut and the NWT)

[Topspin]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, since most of my experience is with gov't issued guns.

If someone has a PAL, and a legally owned and registered long gun, they can lend said gun to a friend who has a PAL for the same class, correct? So if a police officer is responding to a call and checks the gun registry, one of the following would happen:
a) The registry shows that the resident of the house has a registered long gun. If there is no reports of threats of gunshots, the weapon is probably safely locked up or could be stored elsewhere, but the officer does not take a chance and assumes that it may be out and ready to be used. There may also be other long guns there loaned from a friend, other non-registered firearms, or other weapons. The officer uses an appropriate level of caution based on his knowledge of the current situation, which may or may not involve back-up or a drawn pistol.
b) The registry shows that the resident does NOT have a registered long gun. If there are no reports of threats or gunshots, there is probably no firearm involved, but the officer does not take a chance and assumes that there may be one anyway. There could be an unregistered long gun (if the person has a license), and illegal firearm (license or not), or other weapons. The officer uses an appropriate level of caution based on his knowledge of the current situation, which may or may not involve back-up or a drawn pistol.

So, as can be seem, the registry is a useful tool which gets check many times per day and provides officers with- wait a minute, it really doesn't change the responding officer's SOP, does it? Assuming that everything is safe just because the registry doesn't have a hit is foolish. Almost equally foolish is going in guns blazing just because a .22 is on file. If there is a report of shots fired you use all the resources you can, including going in weapons hot; conversely if the call is for a couple arguing loudly you go in trying to resolve the situation peacefully. Gun registry changed none of that.

As a firearms owner with an expired PAL who has his firearms registered at address A, stored at address B, and resides at address C, I would suggest yes, you are correct.
If they ever get around to finding me, they can have my guns, they aren't worth much anyway. And my faith will be somewhat restored in the registry, even knowing full well that my own common sense directed at lack of a storage safe have done far more to preserve public safety than Canada's silly firearms laws ever have.

Beyond that, most firearms owners that follow the firearms act to the letter have their guns locked up so tight they're a non factor anyway.

[Expat]

What can I say expat? I am just a globally thinking type of person. Concerned with the good of the world. Though your comments make me think you might not want to know how I think we should deal with garbage.
I assume you are referring to Canada..Yes low population density but most of it owned by just a very few (think Nunavut and the NWT)

You are right. After living so long in a sh*t hole, I tend to lose perspective of what is important in a perfect world.

[North Shore]

Reposted. Carry on.....

[Giveitago]

Reposted. Carry on.....

Thank You North Shore

[. ._]

I think Karzai should do a long gun registry in Afghanistan. That would probably decrease the deaths there. I'm just sayin'...

[mcrit]

I think Karzai should do a long gun registry in Afghanistan. That would probably decrease the deaths there. I'm just sayin'...

You may be a long haired stoner hippy in need of a good shower and scrubbing with a wire brush, but you are witty.