Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by . ._ »

If you haven't noticed, scm, Greenland and Antarctica have been growing profusely because of global cooling.

Yore sience is shit. Your a dumy.

-itsp :P
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scm
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by scm »

You really want to get a grip on polution and save the planet. Figure out how to get rid of 2/3 of the worlds population and everything will be fine...BTW..the technology has been available since about July 1945 to accomplish this.
You make too many assumptions about me. I'm also sure that the slums of China and Mexico are demonstrating the process of viral evolution - that's a real possibility, however war is an inevitable result if we do not stop or slow climate change. You will find that by 2100, Russia and Canada will be the global powers (due to habitability) and the rest of the world will be wartorn slums - that's why i'm trying to bring climate, nuclear power and geoengineering into the lexicon.

I have said repeatedly before that I don't wish to discuss my personal life or level of bigotry. However since it is of such interest: I no longer drive, fly, use home heating, eat meat more than once a week. Nor plan to buy consumer electronics, even though I love huge 3D TVs. This is for the sake of the current situation, not anything against technology. My age is 25, as listed in the first post. I don't intend to have kids, although I would like to adopt an African kid as they will be the first and most affected by this disaster - take a look at what is happening in the Sahelian Desert and near Kenya and Uganda. People need a patch of land to grow food and a method of transport - it is more efficient to use a solar panel to charge an electric bicycle than it is to eat food and cycle (minor point). PV Solar panels are the worst form of renewable energy, I don't know why its the first thing people bring up.

Please read this book Sustainable Energy: Without The Hot Air by Peter MacKay so that you can put numbers to your argument. In order to beat climate change we will have to make our society primarily an electric one - in fact we will probably have to double electricity production - which is why i'm pushing nuclear power, a mature technology. You make it black and white - the matter is both population and consumption. And the physical and chemical cause of ACC is CO2, CH, NO, black carbon, and 20% deforestation. I hate to sound cruel, but the poor overpolated areas share an obvious fate. We, the rich who overconsume, have choice in our democratic society.
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by scm »

istp wrote:If you haven't noticed, scm, Greenland and Antarctica have been growing profusely because of global cooling.

Yore sience is shit. Your a dumy.

-itsp :P
Indeed. If you flip these charts upside down, they are growing exponentially!

Image
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by culver10 »

here is a graph also :rolleyes:
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by cgzro »

I can see that you are passionate about your beliefs, and live them, that is to be commended, however you might want to drop all the ad hom and 'denier' hurtful and derogatory language. It makes you sound ignorant and intollerant and in my mind I imagine a corpulant southern red-neck spewing the N word ... to whom my natural reaction is to smile and give a wide berth.

People will be more likely to listen to well presented arguments when free of such horrific language and you already have a one up on most people by at least not being hypocritical on the subject.

As for me, I'm trying to learn but frankly I can't take seriously arguments that mention funding sources or call me horrific names for wanting to learn more.
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by scm »

cgzro wrote:I can see that you are passionate about your beliefs, and live them, that is to be commended, however you might want to drop all the ad hom and 'denier' hurtful and derogatory language. It makes you sound ignorant and intollerant and in my mind I imagine a corpulant southern red-neck spewing the N word ... to whom my natural reaction is to smile and give a wide berth.

People will be more likely to listen to well presented arguments when free of such horrific language and you already have a one up on most people by at least not being hypocritical on the subject.

As for me, I'm trying to learn but frankly I can't take seriously arguments that mention funding sources or call me horrific names for wanting to learn more.
My first post was well presented and included links to biographies and two skeptics views.

I am quite angry at what the climate denier movement has done - the level of warming they have condemned us to - that is why I pointed out how immoral their behavior is. My apologies if I have offended you or called you an offensive name, but you did take the first stab at me, and it was quite obvious. In the end, it is climate change that matter and the wellbeing of your children. So investigate it on your on time, and take your own actions. I have had death threats for simply quoting passages by other scientists - I think I have a cause for some intolerance, toward people that attack me rather than the subject matter - which you continue to do.

Unfortunately, sometimes, to some people, I will sound ignorant and intolerant.
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trey kule
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by trey kule »

Let me see , if I have this all straight. You feel you have a license to be intolerant towards those who personalize your arguments, rather than the facts you present? Is that it.
Yet , you in turn , feel its perfectly all right to use derogatory and personal slurs against anyone who disagrees with you...what did you call them...."the climate deniers" or something along that line.

Here is something to think about. It does not really matter if you are the wisest person in the world, if you are slapping someone in the face while discussing something, it will get personal.

So how about , rather than feeling you have a right to intolerance, that you go about editing your posts to make them a bit less inflamatory?
and if you really want to discuss things, you have to be aboe to see the validity of what some others think, rather than trash everyone..

As to your world view. Maybe a bit of travel to see how others actually are dealing with all this climate change would provide you with a bit of balance...just saying.


Lastly.. Thank you for this..
I don't intend to have kids That not only will allow room for immigration to Canada from those who dont share your views, but will actually, I think, go a long way to proving Darwin's theory.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Trey, have you read about bacon. I hear it's really bad for your heart. If you eat it you'll die. It's uh, science dude.

scm are you using this thread to make youtube videos?
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trey kule
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by trey kule »

What...Bacon?

Are you sure? Because I certainly didnt have any plans to die. It cant be true, or MacDonalds would never be putting it on their hamburgers.....But then again.......
it just might be a judeo.islamic conspiracy to rid the world of all of us pig eating pagans.

I really dont know what to think now beefy? I do so love bacon. All kinds, cooked both soft and crispy. On a delicious burger made from the flesh of cows that died suffering...though through the intake of sheeps brains and not bacon.

Will climate change end this terrible tragedy of bacon induced death? It is the temperture, isnt it. Hot pigs make death producing Bacon....

Ahh....I am doomed. I think I can say with certainity I am going to die.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Sorry, I don't have a graph but nothing can reverse it. If you have eaten bacon, you will eventually die. To date it's been 100%
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by trey kule »

Wow...I dont like those numbers at all. 100% of people will die you say.. And this is all a result of climate change? Boy, I only wish SCM had posted his wisdom earlier before I ever took a bite of bacon. I might have been able to do my part to resist this climate change by acting like a whacko.....do whackos live forever? Or at least a little longer?
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by SkySailor »

Now I'm really terrified about climate change! I ate bacon today, and yesterday! I'll bet if I actually read those critical 14 pages, I would have discovered how badly bacon behaves!! Repent, REPENT!! Oh Harold, forget the rapture!! Why didn't you tell us about THE BACON!!!!
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cgzro
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by cgzro »

My first post was well presented and included links to biographies and two skeptics views.
I am quite angry at what the climate denier movement has done
I am not sure that you understand that the biggest single thing that has been done to undermine the climate change message has been the use of terms like denier and to drag out unrelated ad hom arguments. That combined with failure to disclose data, failure to correct or even admit blatently obvious statistical mistakes and the trust level drops markedly.
In otherwords your name calling and ad hom is part of the problem you are so upset about!!

Most people in this world have not got a clue about statistics, or tree rings, or mud sedimants etc. but they sure know when they are being insulted and they instantly dislike and distrust the person flinging the insult, thats pretty basic human psychology.
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by SkySailor »

^ Exactly.
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by Posthumane »

Let's say we ignore for the moment all of the inaccuracies and lies that have come to light about how climate change data was gathered and processed and assume that the earth is, in fact, warming. Let's make another big assumption and say that this is outside of it's normal bounds for warming and cooling. Then let's get so cocky about our importance on this planet and assume that we are what's causing it all, in spite of the minuscule output of CO2 compared to natural levels. This puts us square into the "man-made global warming" category that people are starting to panic about.

So now let's look at the effects of this climate change. The mean temperature of the earth may go up a few degrees. Is this significant? Sure. Some of the hottest parts of the planet may become less habitable and less arable. Conversely, some parts of the planet which are currently inhabitable and unarable due to short growing seasons and low mean temperatures will open up and people may start moving there. The mean temperature in Edmonton, for example, is 3.9 degrees Celsius. The daily mean temp in Pheonix, AZ is 22.2 degrees Celcius. So even in the worst case scenario that was presented, the mid latitudes in Canada will be significantly cooler than the mid latitudes in the US are right now. While this is certainly a noticeable change, it is not, by itself, a catastrophe. It just means people will have to move around a bit.

Water levels may rise a few metres if all the ice caps melt. Sure, this will flood some of the low lying areas and destroy some of the major cities that are in these areas. This means that people will have to move a little further inland. We will lose some available landmass on the continents, but we will gain some habitable landmass which was previously occupied by the ice caps. There may be some small desalinization of ocean waters in the short term, but due to a larger oceanic area we may also see greater evaporation and precipitation rates, which is generally a good thing for the creation of arable land.

The world may be quite different than it is today, and many people will have trouble adjusting if it happens quickly, so many people may die as a result. Since overpopulation is in itself a major part of the problem, this is actually a self limiting characteristic. Even if a billion people were to perish as a result of the changes, that would only put us back to 1990s population levels, which is hardly on the brink of extinction. The world today looks nothing like it did just a few hundred years ago, yet people had no trouble adapting.

While I do support the lower energy consumption in principle for a variety of reasons, I do not support grandiose geoengineering schemes and political/economic games that stem from this concept. The concept of "man-made global warming" is far from a proven fact that is accepted by the majority of scientists. It is still a questionable theory at best. Thinking you can control the climate through schemes like "attaching tanks to flights to sprinkle aluminum dust" when you don't understand the full cause and effect relationships of a very complex system is folly. Every geoengineering feat that has been tried to date has been a failure. Don't even get me started on the "carbon credit" scheme which creates a false economy based an a non-tangible commodity and doesn't actually do anything to solve the problem that the creators claim exists.

Anyway, that's my rant for the moment. Sorry if it's a bit incoherent, as it was written in a hurry. Please feel free to discuss.
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Re: Terrifying Views on Climate Change [NO DEPRESSIVES]

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Water levels may rise a few metres if all the ice caps melt. Sure, this will flood some of the low lying areas and destroy some of the major cities that are in these areas. This means that people will have to move a little further inland. We will lose some available landmass on the continents, but we will gain some habitable landmass which was previously occupied by the ice caps.
Indeed. For some reason in the whole man-made global warming discussion for some reason its been totally forgotten that in even recorded history the earth was significantly warmer. During the Viking age it was warm enough for more people to live in Greenland than do now (if one counts the native - and now extinct like the Nosre who lived there - peoples) Its true that there will be hard times ahead due to the planet's climate changing, but mankind will adapt, we have before. If one is truly worried about one's fate in the changing world I would suggest moving to Edmonton, or maybe buying property in Yellowknife.
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