Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

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Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#1 Post by A321 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:44 pm

Just wondering which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to be Cabin Groomers at station stops and overnights away from base? I haven't heard nor have I seen Air Canada front end crew donning gloves to empty seat pockets but I believe Westjet & Swoop pilots do (?) What about Air Canada Rouge, Sunwing, First Air, Air Transat, Flair... ?
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#2 Post by ant_321 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:52 pm

I’m assuming you’re trolling but I’ll answer anyway. Only the WestJet family.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#3 Post by Alcoholism » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:26 pm

I do it where I work and it's not SOP. I also do it as a passenger on other airlines. I just like getting my hand in dark, deep, (sometimes moist) places and pulling out surprises. Try it.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#4 Post by Anticyclone » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Alcoholism wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:26 pm
I do it where I work and it's not SOP. I also do it as a passenger on other airlines. I just like getting my hand in dark, deep, (sometimes moist) places and pulling out surprises. Try it.
I respect your opinion but doing it because you want to is something and doing it because its part of your job description is quite another.

I also heard former CEO Gadek saying they would do the same with Jetlines he even found a posh name for it "Cross utilization of crew" i guess it will help swallow the pill. :radioactive:
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#5 Post by .80@410 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:33 pm

This Rank practice needs to be put to sleep.
Gawd I hope no other airline attempts to demean its front end crews with this policy. Sooner we put an end to it the sooner our profession starts having some pride again.
What’s next , cardigans ? Oh .. wait.. . 🙄

69 days and counting.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#6 Post by C.W.E. » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:43 pm

How can any company demean a pilot by asking them to do something that is so below their status?
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#7 Post by aeroncasuperchief » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:13 pm

Yes, just have those lowly cleaners and back end scum do the dirty work,,, most pilots are tooo high and mighty to stoop for the pee-ons :lol:
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#8 Post by pianokeys » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

Oh Jesus here we go with the sarcastic "I hope no one demeans a pilot by making them clean" etc comments... I cant wait for a WS crew member to ask me to clean after I deadhead because Ive been saving the "Im not doing that, my airline pays people to do this." line for a year now.

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.

Side note, youd think now that WS is no longer a LCC/ULCC, and instead legacy carrier because theyre going international with widebody aircraft and two classes they would finally have the money to hire a groom crew... Nope, too cheap. Sell it as "team building" so everyone buys in to it.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#9 Post by flyinhigh » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Alcoholism wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:26 pm
I just like getting my hand in dark, deep, (sometimes moist) places and pulling out surprises. Try it.
I use to feel this way, than I moved to Red Lake :shock: :shock:
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#10 Post by PT6onH20 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:47 am

ant_321 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:52 pm
I’m assuming you’re trolling but I’ll answer anyway. Only the WestJet family.
Uncle Bobby at the island also has his flight deck groom. When I started there we didn't get latex gloves. Good for the immune system they say...
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#11 Post by digits_ » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:40 pm

As far as I know, all pilots are supposed to lightly groom their planes at most (all?) 704 airlines, since there is no one else around to do it for you...
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#12 Post by BE02 Driver » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 am

pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque.

Get a clue.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#13 Post by GRK2 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 am
pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque

Get a clue.
Oops, you almost had a decent rebuttal there...right until that last part. :smt018
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#14 Post by BE02 Driver » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:04 am

GRK2 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 am
pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque

Get a clue.
Oops, you almost had a decent rebuttal there...right until that last part. :smt018
Too much emphasis?

It was meant to be tongue in cheek.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#15 Post by eyebrow737 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:11 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque.

Get a clue.
Let me correct your analogy.

You are are asking the house painter to change your winter tires, fill up your gas tank and give you a rub and tug.
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Last edited by eyebrow737 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#16 Post by BE02 Driver » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:27 am

eyebrow737 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:11 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque.

Get a clue.
Let me correct your analogy.

You are are asking the house painter to change your winter tires, fill up your gas tank and give you a tub and tug.
Yeah, maybe I would. If I think he/she could get the job done and it'll save me a few bucks. Maybe it's a value added service.

Who exactly defined the official job description of a pilot?

Some pilots pump their own gas, some groom, some may even drive thier customers home.

If you don't like the job description don't apply, if you don't like it when you are their apply elsewhere. Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse.

I'm mostly sick and tired of watching people bitch about how good they have it. Be happy you have gainful employment. Sure work on improving your position, it's human nature. But pretending that cleaning a plane is not a pilots job, or below your standards makes pilots sound even more arrogant and pompous than they already appear to the outside world.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#17 Post by atphat » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:59 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:27 am
eyebrow737 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:11 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque.

Get a clue.
Let me correct your analogy.

You are are asking the house painter to change your winter tires, fill up your gas tank and give you a tub and tug.
Yeah, maybe I would. If I think he/she could get the job done and it'll save me a few bucks. Maybe it's a value added service.

Who exactly defined the official job description of a pilot?

Some pilots pump their own gas, some groom, some may even drive thier customers home.

If you don't like the job description don't apply, if you don't like it when you are their apply elsewhere. Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse.

I'm mostly sick and tired of watching people bitch about how good they have it. Be happy you have gainful employment. Sure work on improving your position, it's human nature. But pretending that cleaning a plane is not a pilots job, or below your standards makes pilots sound even more arrogant and pompous than they already appear to the outside world.
Pretending it’s not a pilot’s job? I couldn’t care less what the lackey WJ pilots do but spare yourself the embarrassment of thinking that grooming is a professional pilots duty.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#18 Post by eyebrow737 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:04 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:27 am
Yeah, maybe I would. If I think he/she could get the job done and it'll save me a few bucks. Maybe it's a value added service.
Who exactly defined the official job description of a pilot?
Some pilots pump their own gas, some groom, some may even drive thier customers home.
If you don't like the job description don't apply, if you don't like it when you are their apply elsewhere. Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse.
I'm mostly sick and tired of watching people bitch about how good they have it. Be happy you have gainful employment. Sure work on improving your position, it's human nature. But pretending that cleaning a plane is not a pilots job, or below your standards makes pilots sound even more arrogant and pompous than they already appear to the outside world.
That's wonderful news BEO2. We're starting up a new 787 international service and are looking for first officers. In preparation for our cut price service, and to go up against AC and WJ we have to ask the team to pitch together to help save costs. I'm sure you're more than willing to help to make our airline the best and provide great returns to our shareholders.

Job Position: 787 First Officer

The requirements are:
  • Only a CPL! 250 hours total. No jet time required or experience. Must be willing to work hard.
  • Experience on the ramp desirable
  • Wealthy parents a plus
The job description is:
  • Pay for type rating
  • Sign a bond for 10 years
  • Pay for your own uniform
  • Clean the plane
  • Clean the Lavatory
  • Empty the toilet waste tank (sometimes on a turn in front of passengers but we will provide a rubber apron)
  • Help the flight attendants with serving food
  • Occasional Flying duties involved where required by law
We also encourage applicants with an AME to be able to defer MEL's and do routine maintenance - this will help us hire less mechanics and keep costs LOW!!!

Unfortunately, at this time, we are only able to offer minimum wage, but only for the time that you touching the controls.

We will be happy to entertain your application. Please bring a bank check and your parents credit references.

If you don't wish to apply, never mind we have plenty of fresh CPL's who are eager to fly heavy iron.

When they do work for us, please don't ridicule them, "Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse".
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#19 Post by pianokeys » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:20 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 am
pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Have you ever painted your house yourself? Changed your winter tires? Mowed your lawn? How about fill up your own gas tank?

Well you shouldn't, you are taking jobs away from people. You should pay everyone to do everything for you. Certainly hope you never jerk yourself off too, the working girls need a paycheque.

Get a clue.
Seeing how grooming has been apart of the industry for decades and decades, its a well established job. And although your argument may have some merit, there are a few distinct differences in running a house versus a knockoff of Southwest.

Ya know, I would pay someone to do those things, youre right, but I wont, because I am too cheap. Too cheap like WS management. Even without the union-job stealing spin on my argument, the bottom line is still the same. Its a quick way for an airline to save on labour costs, and its easy for the employees to buy in to when they start with the hokey-pokey-family-were-the-best-Disney-happy propaganda. The clue I have right now is you lapped up whatever Clive & Co. were selling and are upset someone figured out youve been duped.

Oh, and pay an escort $300, or buy your wife a necklace, the result is the same.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#20 Post by pianokeys » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:29 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:27 am
Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#21 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:10 am

I'll clean the plane in the back when the Groomers / FAs come in the flight deck and take care of that MEL for me.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#22 Post by atphat » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:33 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:10 am
I'll clean the plane in the back when the Groomers / FAs come in the flight deck and take care of that MEL for me.
Exactly
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#23 Post by C.W.E. » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:00 am

I couldn’t care less what the lackey WJ pilots do but spare yourself the embarrassment of thinking that grooming is a professional pilots duty.
I am truly perplexed about what exactly are the requirements to be a professional pilot.

There are no educational requirements to get the license except the ability to read and write well enough to study and write the exams, which if you fail them you can re-write as many times as it takes to finally get a pass mark.

So starting from that low entry requirement can you explain to me exactly what is so difficult about becoming a professional pilot?
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#24 Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:55 am

Actually making it to and past that illusive first job
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

#25 Post by Herculise » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:01 am

pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am
Oh Jesus here we go with the sarcastic "I hope no one demeans a pilot by making them clean" etc comments... I cant wait for a WS crew member to ask me to clean after I deadhead because Ive been saving the "Im not doing that, my airline pays people to do this." line for a year now.

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.

Side note, youd think now that WS is no longer a LCC/ULCC, and instead legacy carrier because theyre going international with widebody aircraft and two classes they would finally have the money to hire a groom crew... Nope, too cheap. Sell it as "team building" so everyone buys in to it.
Let's just pray that the union does right by the cabin crew and soon they will have groomers.
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