Go to 705 or not

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Stevo7776
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Go to 705 or not

Post by Stevo7776 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:54 pm

Hello everyone and thank you for taking the time to read this;

I’ll just get right into it, I currently fly a twin otter in the right seat and have about 1700TT starting on the twin at 200 hr fresh. My chief pilot offered to check me out in the left seat this summer when my PPC is up. There is no promise of an upgrade due to all captain positions being full. So basically get checked out and keep flying right seat till someone quits or retires...

I love the twin and the company I work for isn’t terrible, that’s why I’m having a hard time deciding to move on or not. I talked to a few guys I fly with they think I should just go 705 and I will go captain just as quick anyway with a better job. Anybody’s opinions would be great.

And no I have no specifications on which 705 operator I like.. I’m nit even sure on that.

If anyone has any advice or anything it would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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rxl
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by rxl » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:52 am

Kind of surprised you haven’t got any response yet.
Here’s my 2 cents FWIW. Based on the fact that you were hired right seat in the Twin with 200 hours total time, I would assume that you don’t have an ATPL which is required to go captain at a 705 operation. An ATPL is one of the minimum requirements for AC and WJ hiring if those airlines happen to be your goal.
With this in mind, if you make the jump to 705 without your ATPL or at least the majority of the PIC time requirement complete, you will end up in the situation that quite a few of the folks that I fly with here at Jazz are in ... that is after having already spent tens of thousands of dollars on their training, they now have to shell out even more cash on Cessna rentals to fly around in circles to build PIC time. PICUS time is available, but it is a slow
process and is only valid for a portion ( I believe half) of the ATPL requirement.
If you do the left seat PPC on the Otter and are able to upgrade to Captain within a reasonable time frame, I would suggest that route. You will learn a TON more by continuing to fly the Otter, especially once you upgrade, and you get paid ... probably quite well in today’s market.
Flying a 172, while it might be fun for a while, it is expensive and the experience gained is of much less value going forward in your career.
The caveat to this is the fact that in the 705 world, seniority is EVERYTHING. Your seniority dictates your schedule, pay, type of airplane you fly, what seat you fly it from, vacation ... everything. In light of the current hiring “boom” at AC etc the sooner you get that seniority number the better off you will be in the log run.

But without that ATPL ...

I don’t know if that helps or just muddies the waters for you, but in any case, all the best to you and good luck.
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Last edited by rxl on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

northernpilot2
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by northernpilot2 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:33 pm

Stevo7776 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:54 pm


I love the twin and the company I work for isn’t terrible
Thats all that matters
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co-joe
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by co-joe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:12 pm

Go try 705, you can always come back, few people do though and with good reason.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by PostmasterGeneral » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:30 pm

If there isn’t a shortage of captain spots because the ones there aren’t leaving, you’re probably at a good outfit. Stay there till you get your A’s and then frig off to the airlines.
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JBI
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by JBI » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:42 pm

I think one of the things missing in this discussion is where the job is based and, more importantly, where YOU want to be based.

Lots of pros to going to the 705 world - I'm at a regional and enjoy it. But lots of folks don't want to be based in YYZ/YYC/YVR/YUL on a regional pilot FO's salary or commuting which has it's own challenges.

The other consideration is what do you want to do long term? Can you see yourself staying there for the bulk of a career or do you think eventually you'll want to go to the airlines? If you think you'll eventually want to go to the airlines, I would argue that based on the job market going sooner than later makes the most sense. But, if you're not all that fussed about what you're flying, Twotter time may be more fun!
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derateNO
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by derateNO » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:52 pm

Depends what your long term goal is.

If you plan to go to the airlines, go now. Even if it's Jazz. You'll set yourself up long term for either a good career there or flow/interview to AC. You'll have to push to get your PIC time though, either by spending money or PICUS.
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derateNO
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by derateNO » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

co-joe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:12 pm
Go try 705, you can always come back, few people do though and with good reason.
That's a great point. Seniority doesn't really exist at the 703 level, so go try it and if you hate it then go back to your old job where your boss would likely be happy to have you.

Then you won't be one of those 50+ year old guys saying they "wished they'd at least tried the airlines."
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mixturerich
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by mixturerich » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:06 pm

derateNO wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm
Then you won't be one of those 50+ year old guys saying they "wished they'd at least tried the airlines."
I’ve heard that a lot when I was at 703/704. It seems easy enough now but that kind of work gets hard and tiresome when you get older. To some, 705 might get tiresome too, but at least it’s not hard.
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CaptainKirk
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by CaptainKirk » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm

Stevo7776 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:54 pm
Hello everyone and thank you for taking the time to read this;

I’ll just get right into it, I currently fly a twin otter in the right seat and have about 1700TT starting on the twin at 200 hr fresh. My chief pilot offered to check me out in the left seat this summer when my PPC is up. There is no promise of an upgrade due to all captain positions being full. So basically get checked out and keep flying right seat till someone quits or retires...

I love the twin and the company I work for isn’t terrible, that’s why I’m having a hard time deciding to move on or not. I talked to a few guys I fly with they think I should just go 705 and I will go captain just as quick anyway with a better job. Anybody’s opinions would be great.

And no I have no specifications on which 705 operator I like.. I’m nit even sure on that.

If anyone has any advice or anything it would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Hi,

I was in a similar situation last year. In fact I made a post ‘Regional Career’ here on avcanada. I wanted to stay because of all the reasons you mentioned: good schedule, upgrade, good pay, good company etc. But after all that I changed my mind. I changed my mind because I failed to factor in one thing very important. And that is opportunity cost. Go now when times are good and life is simple ‘err.
I decided to go get a mainline job. After coming here it became obvious very quickly it is the best decision I’ve ever made.
The second factor which I had originally failed to consider is # of days worked at the regional is much higher than working for mainline. I’m home another 5-10 days a month.

Captain Kirk
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flyinhigh
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by flyinhigh » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:33 am

So after all the bragging you did about how awesome things are, you left in the end. Where are you now, Westjet??

Also, the # of days worked is one of the number one things folks don't consider. Flying bigger planes, generally means you will work less days unless you are at swoop (had to :smt040 ), than you better off on the twin otter.
CaptainKirk wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
Hi,

I was in a similar situation last year. In fact I made a post ‘Regional Career’ here on avcanada. I wanted to stay because of all the reasons you mentioned: good schedule, upgrade, good pay, good company etc. But after all that I changed my mind. I changed my mind because I failed to factor in one thing very important. And that is opportunity cost. Go now when times are good and life is simple ‘err.
I decided to go get a mainline job. After coming here it became obvious very quickly it is the best decision I’ve ever made.
The second factor which I had originally failed to consider is # of days worked at the regional is much higher than working for mainline. I’m home another 5-10 days a month.

Captain Kirk
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Eric Janson
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Re: Go to 705 or not

Post by Eric Janson » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:18 am

For what it's worth:-

Still not clear just how bad the Corona Virus situation is going to get.

It has already started to disrupt supply chains and that will only get worse imho.

Airlines are likely to be badly hit if this triggers a recession.

I'm not sure being at the bottom of a seniority list is a good place to be right now - but that's a choice everyone will have to make for themselves.
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Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business

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