IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

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McKinley
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IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by McKinley »

Not surprising .. funny how we’re an essential service but are being told to operate in this climate. Yet, when we strike we’re legislated back to work.

I don’t get how the government continues to do nothing..


https://www.travelweek.ca/news/economic ... ata-warns/
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Is there a demand greater than what is available now for travel?
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

The quarantine is killing aviation. One week vacation turns into three. Lots more people would travel if there was no quarantine period.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:46 pm The quarantine is killing aviation. One week vacation turns into three. Lots more people would travel if there was no quarantine period.
You cannot compare a strike (where the demand for flying is still there) and now (where there is almost no demand for flying) and argue that you are an “essential service” hence the border should re-open. It makes no sense.

I agree with you, aviation is in trouble. But arguing for border re-opening because you are an “essential service” will not bring you far.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by FL320 »

AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:39 pm
JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:46 pm The quarantine is killing aviation. One week vacation turns into three. Lots more people would travel if there was no quarantine period.
You cannot compare a strike (where the demand for flying is still there) and now (where there is almost no demand for flying) and argue that you are an “essential service” hence the border should re-open. It makes no sense.

I agree with you, aviation is in trouble. But arguing for border re-opening because you are an “essential service” will not bring you far.
Where do you get your info that there is no demand for flying?
There is demand, look at domestic flights in Canada, China, USA, Europe..load factors are not bad at all! The unjustified border closure and quarantine are the only reason why there is no demand...
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Last edited by FL320 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

FL320 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:39 pm
JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:46 pm The quarantine is killing aviation. One week vacation turns into three. Lots more people would travel if there was no quarantine period.
You cannot compare a strike (where the demand for flying is still there) and now (where there is almost no demand for flying) and argue that you are an “essential service” hence the border should re-open. It makes no sense.

I agree with you, aviation is in trouble. But arguing for border re-opening because you are an “essential service” will not bring you far.
Where do you get your info that there is no demand for flying?
There is demand, look at domestic flights in Canada, China, USA, Europe..load factors are not bad at all!
Compare the demand today to February. It is less. The only reason load factors are high is that airplanes are parked. The market adapted to the reduced demand. Hence why many are without jobs now.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm Is there a demand greater than what is available now for travel?
There are three Emergency Orders under the Quarantine Act in effect.

One that says that no Foreigners except Americans can enter Canada (with certain exceptions like family, Students etc)

A second one that says Americans can't enter either (with certain exceptions like family, Students etc)

A third one that says that Canadians, Canadian Residents and whomsoever can enter under the exceptions of the first two Orders must quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

Those three Emergency Orders are the major reasons there is no demand for travel. Not public fear or Paranoia.

I've flown to Europe 6 times since late July. Many are fine with travelling. They go on vacations. Visit Europe.

One thing I did notice though.... The average age of my passengers is much lower than before. Many young families in their thirties and early forties, with children, young couples, young people. The older crowd is not present, except for Portugal flights that had old people......
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm Is there a demand greater than what is available now for travel?
There are three Emergency Orders under the Quarantine Act in effect.

One that says that no Foreigners except Americans can enter Canada (with certain exceptions like family, Students etc)

A second one that says Americans can't enter either (with certain exceptions like family, Students etc)

A third one that says that Canadians, Canadian Residents and whomsoever can enter under the exceptions of the first two Orders must quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

Those three Emergency Orders are the major reasons there is no demand for travel. Not public fear or Paranoia.

I've flown to Europe 6 times since late July. Many are fine with travelling. They go on vacations. Visit Europe.

One thing I did notice though.... The average age of my passengers is much lower than before. Many young families in their thirties and early forties, with children, young couples, young people. The older crowd is not present, except for Portugal flights that had old people......
And your point is? Those are public safety measures most Canadians agree with. You really think the government will change those for a single interest group?
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by '97 Tercel »

The point is that
The quarantine is killing aviation.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

'97 Tercel wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:01 pm The point is that
The quarantine is killing aviation.
And it killed small buisnesses and many other areas of the economy. Are Canadians willing to risk re-opening the borders without methods mitigating the spread of COVID? Is aviation, in the eyes of Canadians, more important than the health of all citizens? Whether the concerns are based on a perceived or real threat is actually irrelevant - you need to convince people and so far, the Canadian population would rather stay home.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by '97 Tercel »

so far, the Canadian population would rather stay home.
..and that's based on your own wide-reaching survey you have conducted recently? Or just a random statement?
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

'97 Tercel wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 pm
so far, the Canadian population would rather stay home.
..and that's based on your own wide-reaching survey you have conducted recently? Or just a random statement?
Survey on hardship related to US/Canada border closure: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/one-in-fi ... -1.5048795

Canadians want a vaccine before travelling: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5672571
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by jpilot77 »

Well of course the public is scared the media and to a certain extent the governments have been painting them a scary story. How scary is COVID now? I’d say far less scary then they make it out to be.

Here’s some one walking in downtown Stockholm sometime last week.
https://youtu.be/bamZrEfwx0A

Looks pretty normal. I believe they’re death rate was lower than Quebec’s and they didn’t shut everything down...
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

jpilot77 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 pm Well of course the public is scared the media and to a certain extent the governments have been painting them a scary story. How scary is COVID now? I’d say far less scary then they make it out to be.

Here’s some one walking in downtown Stockholm sometime last week.
https://youtu.be/bamZrEfwx0A

Looks pretty normal. I believe they’re death rate was lower than Quebec’s and they didn’t shut everything down...
Like I said, whether the concerns are based on real or perceived threats is irrelevant. You still need to convince people (and by extension, the government), that it is a good idea to re-open the borders and once that’s done, convince people use air travel.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm Is there a demand greater than what is available now for travel?
My point is ?

I was answering your question. YES! There is a demand.

If it wasn’t for the Quarantine ACT restrictions, much more Canadians would be travelling than are now. People who want to travel are forced not to. But they WANT to travel. Every time the Measures are extended, ticket sales fall, people cancel. Not because they do not want to travel, not because they are afraid, not because they fear anything, but because the measures prevent them from travelling, against their will.

The demand and the need is there. It would not be at 2019 levels, because many older people are afraid to go out their front door, but many younger people would travel and there would be much more flights than there are now.

Is there a demand greater than what is available now ? YES THERE IS. THAT IS MY POINT. WAS I CLEAR ?


Did I answer your question or is there another survey you want to talk about ?
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 am
AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm Is there a demand greater than what is available now for travel?
My point is ?

I was answering you question. YES! There is a demand.

If it wasn’t for the Quarantine ACT restrictions, much more Canadians would be travelling than are now. People who want to travel are forced not to. But they WANT to travel. Every time the Measures are extended, ticket sales fall, people cancel. Not because they do not want to travel, not because they are afraid, not because they fear anything, but because the measures prevent them from travelling, against their will.

The demand and the need is there. It would not be at 2019 levels, because many older people are afraid to go out their front door, but many younger people would travel and there would be much more flights than there are now.

Is there a demand greater than what is available now ? YES THERE IS. THAT IS MY POINT. WAS I CLEAR ?


Did I answer your question or is there another survey you want to talk about ?
So, only 17% of Canadians said they would consider travelling before a vaccine is available yet you claim there is a demand?

Good luck convincing anyone that it is worth re-opening the border with those numbers...
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by fruz »

You don’t need to prove to the public that travel is safe. You need to convince the government that airlines/airports can provide safe travel using a science based approach similarity to those that other airlines/countries have done. It doesn’t need to to be a full 14 day quarantine or a full ban. Apply restrictions but let the airlines and airports apply it, within reason.

After the government agrees, the public will travel. A blanket restriction across travel provides a blanket theory that all travel should be banned. Not true.

Once the government eases restrictions, the media will report it, with questions no doubt. But the public will view it as the government believes the airlines and airports can safely mitigate COVID.

Start at the source. The government. Don’t convince the sheep...convince the shepherd.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

fruz wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:11 am You don’t need to prove to the public that travel is safe. You need to convince the government that airlines/airports can provide safe travel using a science based approach similarity to those that other airlines/countries have done. It doesn’t need to to be a full 14 day quarantine or a full ban. Apply restrictions but let the airlines and airports apply it, within reason.

After the government agrees, the public will travel. A blanket restriction across travel provides a blanket theory that all travel should be banned. Not true.

Once the government eases restrictions, the media will report it, with questions no doubt. But the public will view it as the government believes the airlines and airports can safely mitigate COVID.

Start at the source. The government. Don’t convince the sheep...convince the shepherd.
The government won’t do anything if there is no push from the public. Polls show Canadians are happy not travelling AND cases are on the way up worldwide (I get in some individual countries cases are going down however in general cases are going up). Your argument that a niche group of people (sure, it affects many more but it will be perceived as a niche group) is more important than the health of Canadian will likely not be well received.

Unfortunately, opinions and optics do matter. In this case, I would try to be more relatable to the Canadian public and bring forth realistic measures that would at least convince people that travelling is as safe or safer than with current measures (quarantine)

Personally, I would most definitely travel if it wasn’t for COVID but even with work arrangements that allow me to work from home for two weeks coming back from travel (thus not losing revenue) I am not considering travelling outside of Canada at all this year. I am not scared, I am cautious and weighed the pros and the cons. Is leisure travel worth the increased risk of infection?
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by fruz »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 am
fruz wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:11 am You don’t need to prove to the public that travel is safe. You need to convince the government that airlines/airports can provide safe travel using a science based approach similarity to those that other airlines/countries have done. It doesn’t need to to be a full 14 day quarantine or a full ban. Apply restrictions but let the airlines and airports apply it, within reason.

After the government agrees, the public will travel. A blanket restriction across travel provides a blanket theory that all travel should be banned. Not true.

Once the government eases restrictions, the media will report it, with questions no doubt. But the public will view it as the government believes the airlines and airports can safely mitigate COVID.

Start at the source. The government. Don’t convince the sheep...convince the shepherd.
The government won’t do anything if there is no push from the public. Polls show Canadians are happy not travelling AND cases are on the way up worldwide (I get in some individual countries cases are going down however in general cases are going up). Your argument that a niche group of people (sure, it affects many more but it will be perceived as a niche group) is more important than the health of Canadian will likely not be well received.

Unfortunately, opinions and optics do matter. In this case, I would try to be more relatable to the Canadian public and bring forth realistic measures that would at least convince people that travelling is as safe or safer than with current measures (quarantine)

Personally, I would most definitely travel if it wasn’t for COVID but even with work arrangements that allow me to work from home for two weeks coming back from travel (thus not losing revenue) I am not considering travelling outside of Canada at all this year. I am not scared, I am cautious and weighed the pros and the cons. Is leisure travel worth the increased risk of infection?
I understand your argument - the public has to feel satisfied that travel is safe.

My argument is how you go about convincing them that travel can be conducted safely. An airline or their employees aren't going to change the public minds. The argument has to come from the government via the media. I can knock on peoples doors everyday and night, but I wont be able to convince them. My point is that the government must be satisfied that the airlines can safely conduct travel using specific protocols to mitigate spread first. You wont convince the public otherwise.

I don't blame Canadians for being cautious and I respect your choice to not travel. But if the government was satisfied that the airlines could use strict and strategic safety measures to mitigate infection, I believe Canadians would accept this. Not all, but some.

I understand polls do carry a lot of weight in the direction of government decisions. But sometimes the government must weigh their decisions knowing they wont appease all. In this case they have to figure out a way to balance the economy and health measures. The airlines and unions have made proposals to help them decide. It wont be favourable with all but it's a start in the right direction.

If the government is satisfied, then allow Canadian's to decide if its worth the risk. You just cant do it the other way around. Public wont shift their mindset unless the government shifts theirs first.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

fruz,

You believe that in this time when cases are spiking within Canada that the government will listen to that argument?
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