March to Save Canadian Aviation

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Aviation Workers are marching in Ottawa on Oct 20th.

We meet at the LeBreton flats next to the War Museum at 11:30. The march begins at noon.

Social distancing and masks are required.

The goal is to ask the Federal Government to rapidly come to the aid of the Aviation and Aerospace sectors who are on the brink of bankruptcy.

March to Save Canadian Aviation.

Join us!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Lt. Daniel Kaffee
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:43 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee »

I'd join you all but I am working...I hope it goes well and you get a lot of press and support!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

The two simultaneous protests in Ottawa and Quebec were a great success. Thanks to all who attended or who showed support by other means.

Four MPs came out to meet us and talked to us, a fifth sent his Chief of Staff to meet us.

I marched with Air Canada, Air Canada Rouge, Westjet, Sunwing, Porter, Air Transat, Jazz, SkyRegional, Swoop and many many others......

More to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=s ... pp=desktop

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hundre ... dj9ryVu99o

https://www.facebook.com/henry.estevez. ... 3295101297

https://www.facebook.com/stephaniekusie ... 1986407943

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/ ... PPW77nWLtQ
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
porcsord
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by porcsord »

Not that internet comment sections are a great indication of how successful an event or protest was... but I'm not sure this protest shines aviation in a good light.

You have people making well into the 6 figures, asking the government to provide stimulus for an industry that has had unprecedented profits for the last decade. All while asking for restrictions to be eased, restrictions that are in place to prevent further closures of other industries.

While I agree that perhaps a mandatory 2 week quarantine is extreme, and should be replaced with "quarantined until test results are in" or rapid testing (assuming it's false negative rate is acceptably low), I do not think handing airlines money is a good use of tax payer money.

To quote one random internet commentator on the CBC

"This is a difficult situation. High paying jobs that have been secure for 20 and 30 years have been lost NOT due to anyones ineptitude...not the airlines or the cash strapped govt. We all want the govt to have an unending pot of money but i dont know how that is possible when the industries that are asking to be bailed out have such high salaries that are being asked to be covered...where will the money come from?. The sad part is that it is hard to find a job that will earn them what they need to make to retain their lifestyle if the industry doesnt recover. This is a massive shift. No easy answers."

Further to this, there are many sectors in aviation that are doing well. Not unprecedented profits, but capable of continuing operation without government assistance. Should those companies also be entitled to government funds? Or only the business that are unable to maintain the status quo without mass layoffs?

I do feel for all those affected by layoffs, but government bailouts are not the correct answer to this problem, and I think you made a critical mistake in lumping in bailouts with reductions in quarantine.
---------- ADS -----------
 
timeflies
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by timeflies »

porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:40 am Not that internet comment sections are a great indication of how successful an event or protest was... but I'm not sure this protest shines aviation in a good light.

You have people making well into the 6 figures, asking the government to provide stimulus for an industry that has had unprecedented profits for the last decade. All while asking for restrictions to be eased, restrictions that are in place to prevent further closures of other industries.

While I agree that perhaps a mandatory 2 week quarantine is extreme, and should be replaced with "quarantined until test results are in" or rapid testing (assuming it's false negative rate is acceptably low), I do not think handing airlines money is a good use of tax payer money.

To quote one random internet commentator on the CBC

"This is a difficult situation. High paying jobs that have been secure for 20 and 30 years have been lost NOT due to anyones ineptitude...not the airlines or the cash strapped govt. We all want the govt to have an unending pot of money but i dont know how that is possible when the industries that are asking to be bailed out have such high salaries that are being asked to be covered...where will the money come from?. The sad part is that it is hard to find a job that will earn them what they need to make to retain their lifestyle if the industry doesnt recover. This is a massive shift. No easy answers."

Further to this, there are many sectors in aviation that are doing well. Not unprecedented profits, but capable of continuing operation without government assistance. Should those companies also be entitled to government funds? Or only the business that are unable to maintain the status quo without mass layoffs?

I do feel for all those affected by layoffs, but government bailouts are not the correct answer to this problem, and I think you made a critical mistake in lumping in bailouts with reductions in quarantine.
You sound like someone who has to find excuses to justify why you you weren't there with your collegues, at least supporting them, at least supporting your industry.

This March and this ''need for help'' is not ONLY about pilots. See the bigger picture here.

While it is true we have some people in the industry making well in the 6 figures, these are mostly PILOTS(after eating kraft dinner for 10 years).

Pilots on this forum like to think they are the industry: well let's not forget you can't take off without Flight attendants, Maintenance , Ramp services,Airport services, Security at the airports, gate agents, customs, the old lady at Tim Hortons and more.

A pilot is only a piece of the puzzle as fancy as it can be.

Again, yes a government assistance similar to the G7 countries is necessary. Ease the borders, provide rapid testing or only quarantine until you get a negative covid 19 result, not 14 days.
---------- ADS -----------
 
porcsord
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by porcsord »

timeflies wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:05 am You sound like someone who has to find excuses to justify why you you weren't there with your collegues, at least supporting them, at least supporting your industry.
I don't need an excuse, I dont support government bailouts of companies who refuse to change with the times. I also didnt support government bailout of bombardier, for the same reason. If the March was solely for the easing or refinements of quarantine rules from select countries, I would be on board, but it's not.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

In case you do not read the text, here is the essence of what is on that Website:

Every single airline in the World who gave refunds to passengers whose flights had been cancelled by the airline after the beginning of COVID-19 crisis, was able to do so thanks to Government financial help.

https://airlinebailouttracker.wordpress ... ce_5YanNIo

This is a downloadable PDF version of the same info:

https://airlinebailouttracker.files.wor ... 2020-1.pdf

So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?

Garneau explained himself, back in the early days of the crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXa2dK6Bu0U


What will happen is this:

Huge low interest long term loans from the Government = ticket refunds.

None = No ticket refunds.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by digits_ »

porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:51 am
timeflies wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:05 am You sound like someone who has to find excuses to justify why you you weren't there with your collegues, at least supporting them, at least supporting your industry.
I don't need an excuse, I dont support government bailouts of companies who refuse to change with the times. I also didnt support government bailout of bombardier, for the same reason. If the March was solely for the easing or refinements of quarantine rules from select countries, I would be on board, but it's not.
You'll never find a protest or march or politically ideology that matches 100% with what you want.

You have to decide if the march will help achieve what you want to see happen (easing quarantine rules), or not.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
porcsord
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by porcsord »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:04 am So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?
Because they were unable to deliver the service they sold? The same reason that if I bought a TV from a store and then the TV was undeliverable I would expect a refund. You want the government to provide refunds for to citizens because the airline can't afford to? That is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm done here, but that logic makes us all look terrible.
---------- ADS -----------
 
montado
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by montado »

IMO the government should be forced to prove that enforcing 14 day quarantine is the only effective method for safe travel. How do you impose restrictions that aren’t backed with hardcore evidence (as ford would say). Is air travel less safe than keeping schools open? Do we force 14 day quarantine after people attend church?

If you are going to make policy that has significant impact on lives you need to back this up. If the airlines say we can do this reasonably safe, as in we can do this as safe as your school policy’s, gym policy etc, and we have similar restrictions that mitigate the level of risk. Then why can’t we lift 14 day quarantine. Airlines don’t need the money, as much as they need the ability to conduct business, and public perception that it is safe to travel. Trudeau seems content with fear politics... and if he says it’s safe to fly, then that pretty much is the final frontier of covid is no big deal in the public perception. Travel is the opposite of lockdown and isolation, so it’s the last to come back.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:13 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:04 am So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?
Because they were unable to deliver the service they sold? The same reason that if I bought a TV from a store and then the TV was undeliverable I would expect a refund. You want the government to provide refunds for to citizens because the airline can't afford to? That is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm done here, but that logic makes us all look terrible.
So I am dumb. Ok its noted. That is always an effective argument. You replied so quickly that I conclude you read very very fast.

So here is another article I guess you will read just as fast. I wrote this one. In it I explain why Canadian airlines cannot re-imburse.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/run-airl ... 13rQ%3D%3D

Its on LinkedIn, so I cut and past it here for you.


Most large airlines in the World received direct financial aid from their home countries.

These Foreign Airlines that fly to Canada are in direct competition with Canadian airlines that received no direct financial aid from the Canadian or Provincial Governments, save CEWS, which is minuscule compared to the massive losses they are facing.
Some Canadian Airlines, such as Porter and Sunwing, just prefer to sit it out rather than compete under such unequal conditions, especially with the Canadian border restrictions which will kill any attempt at recovery as long as they are in place.

US Airports and Air Traffic Services are partially funded by US taxpayers, for in the US, Airports are recognised as major contributors to a region’s economy. Canada's airports and Air Traffic Services are 100% funded by user fees, which ultimately are paid by the passengers. The Canadian Government considers major Canadian airports as cash cows.

The conditions are now set for the total bankruptcy of Canadian aviation in favour of foreign carriers and it is Canada's aviation workers who are going to take the brunt of it in the beginning, but the hardships will quickly trickle down to every aspect of the Canadian economy. No sector of the economy will come out unscathed in Canada if Canadian Aviation collapses.

In the US, airlines were required to refund money for all the flights because of the COVID crisis. But in order to do so, US airlines received 25 Billion US dollars in Government aid in March 2020, and are expecting more funds later this year. US Airports received another 10 Billion US dollars. All Canada did for Canadian Aviation so far is to wave Airport rents from Airport authorities until the end of the year. In Europe, airlines that refunded passengers also received massive financial aid from their Governments, and their borders are not the subject of blanket closures as in Canada.

Airlines are very much like banks. When bank customers deposit money in their bank accounts, the bank lends some of that money to others, to pay a house mortgage for example. But that money is the customer’s money and they are entitled to it any time they want, in theory. Banks lend out and invest a certain percentage of their customers’ money and keep the rest of it on hand to cater to normal customer cash withdrawals and other transactions that may require immediate liquidity.

However, if one day, the Prime Minister of Canada was to appear on National TV and tell all Canadians that because of a National crisis, Canadians were to stop depositing their salaries in their bank accounts and to withdraw all their cash, all the banks in Canada would fail. The bank coffers would be bled dry and they would all be forced to declare bankruptcy, through no fault of their own.

There is a term for this: It is called a run on the bank. Even thought the banks in Canada make Billions in profits, none of these banks are in a position to instantly reimburse to all their customers what is in effect the customer’s money. Their money is invested in assets, loans etc.

What I just described above for the banks is exactly what the Government of Canada did to the airlines of this country.

But first a little context.

Airlines are business that have huge amounts of cash flow, but which are run on razor-thin profit margins. A typical airline that has 3 Billion dollars of annual revenues may just clear 35 million dollars profit on a good year. That is just over a 1% profit margin but it is normal for an Airline.

Such an airline would have carried around 5 million passengers during course of a year. That’s a net profit of About $7 per passenger. In fact, if every satisfied passenger was to give their crew a $10 tip after each flight, the crews would earn more in tips than the airline would make in profit at the end of the year.

This is airline reality.

This high cash flow is made possible by the fact that many passengers buy their tickets months in advance of their flights. They get better deals that way. Why? Because this lead time allows for the airline to better plan their flights, their schedules, their routes, the aircraft types to be used, the flight frequencies, the crew requirements, all with one goal: get a high as possible seat occupancy in their aircraft in order to keep costs and prices low and try to make a profit.

When a passenger buys short term, he prevents the airline from doing all that planning for filling the seats up, which is why they charge you more. Some passengers buy seats almost one year in advance. This explains why there are always hundred of millions to billions of dollars on the airline’s bank accounts. But just like the banks, the airlines do not sit on all that money. They make it work for them. They place that money in all sorts of things: Investments, new aircraft, new aircraft engines, spare parts purchases, paying off loans, overhauling engines and aircraft, painting aircraft, installing new aircraft interiors, hedging fuel in advance to get a better price, hiring and training more crews and many other expensive things. In the case of all-inclusive packages, rooms, food and transport are booked for passenger accommodations. All of this is to make sure that when the day came, the passenger would have the seat he paid for on the flight he booked, at the lowest possible price.

Then this happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ArTbAutKIc

On March 16th 2020, the Prime Minister of Canada, in response to the CODID-19 pandemic, told Canadians to stop travelling, asked Canadians abroad to come home, prohibited foreigners from entering Canada, and imposed a 14 day quarantine on all people entering Canada.

In the same speech, he also said that 10 Billions dollars in aid would be forthcoming for Canadian businesses to help them cope with the crisis.

Canadian airlines heeded the call. They continued to fly for weeks, bringing hundreds of thousands of Canadians home, at great loss to them. This airborne operation, a modern-day Dunkirk, was done mostly at airline expense. The aircraft were mostly leaving Canada empty of passengers to fly Canadians home.

Subsequently, tens of thousands of flights had to be cancelled, not because the airlines could not perform the flights, but because the vast majority of passengers who had booked those flights were prevented from travelling by Government legislation.

This is when passengers began to massively ask for refunds. The Government of Canada created a run on the airlines.

The Government of Canada, the Prime Minister himself, after initially promising Aid to the Airlines, reneged on his promise and did nothing. All the airlines in the World that were able to refund passenger tickets after the COVID crisis, were only able to so after receiving Government financial aid.

Canada’s Airlines are victims of the Government’s policies. And so is the travelling public.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
YYCAME
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:09 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by YYCAME »

Good points there Porcsord. I'm laid off and while I'd appreciate government aid I don't think that I'm owed it or that government money should be used on bailouts without receiving some sort of public equity. Unlike the above comments though, I don't think it's healthy to demand solidarity and loyalty to our jobs unless you believe that the cult of corporate capitalism is good for everyone.

I'm not sure if protests are as effective when asking for handouts as they are in highlighting injustices, but I suppose that is a matter of public perception whether they see aviation aid as a handout or equalization with other industries and countries. My sense is that in general the public won't view aviation as mistreated and thus deserving due to the monopolistic nature of our industry.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:13 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:04 am So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?
Because they were unable to deliver the service they sold? The same reason that if I bought a TV from a store and then the TV was undeliverable I would expect a refund. You want the government to provide refunds for to citizens because the airline can't afford to? That is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm done here, but that logic makes us all look terrible.
That is not what happened. You bought the TV. It was supposed to be delivered a couple weeks later. Before it was delivered, the Government passed a law prohibiting people from watching TV and cut the cable. Then you asked for a refund. The TV was manufactured and it was about to be shipped to you. All those who ordered TVs were asking for refunds.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
777Aviate
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:43 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by 777Aviate »

I was reading a couple days ago the rating Fitch gave to Westjet and Air Canada. They explicitly said that they expect Air Canada to be liquid until mid 2021 and dont need aid. For Westjet they see it surviving but then recognizing in bankruptcy which idk because domestic travel will pick up faster than international. Didn't they say yesterday that the airlines took 1 Billion in CEWS? My point is, we have to put the most vulnerable people of our society first. Lufthansa got a bailout from the government. Now its saying it's not enough and around Christmas their gonna come back asking for more. Every airline will get smaller unfortunately, a protest wont stop businesses from making business decisions.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by digits_ »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:41 am
porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:13 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:04 am So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?
Because they were unable to deliver the service they sold? The same reason that if I bought a TV from a store and then the TV was undeliverable I would expect a refund. You want the government to provide refunds for to citizens because the airline can't afford to? That is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm done here, but that logic makes us all look terrible.
That is not what happened. You bought the TV. It was supposed to be delivered a couple weeks later. Before it was delivered, the Government passed a law prohibiting people from watching TV and cut the cable. Then you asked for a refund. The TV was manufactured and it was about to be shipped to you. All those who ordered TVs are asking for refunds.
That's not true. From your money, the airline does not have to pay for fuel, does not have to pay for maintenance, does not have to pay for airport improvement fees and airport taxes. They only have their office staff and overhead costs. These costs might be significant, but nowhere near as much as all the other costs they don't have anymore combined.

The government does not prohibit a lot of travelling. Look at the latest westjet thing. Lots of customers were still able and willing to travel, but westjet one sidedly cancelled their flights. Not because of government rules, but because their flight loads were too low. That's westjet's commercial decision. They should deal with the consequences. Not give worthless vouchers.

If every flight happened as expected, and then no more new bookings are made, the fully sold out flights are still happening. Airlines (should) have the money to pay for the fuel and fees and taxes at that point. That money needs to be somewhere. At least that part can be refunded. The truth is that airline management makes the choice to use that money to pay for other things. Those things might be keeping extra employees on staff to save on training costs when things pick up, lobbying, advertising, covid tests, covid research, whatever they want. That might be nice from a pilot's point of view, but that's not the customer's problem.

Give people their money back if the airline cancelled their flight. An airline is not a bank, it's an airline.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3682
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by co-joe »

I think Canadians have forgotten how dependent we are on air travel to run this geographically massive country. I personally think Canadians will continue to be unaware of this fact as long as the airlines are still operating. To me, the only answer is for AC and WS to follow Porter's/ TS/ Sinwing's lead, and simply shut down completely and wait for the rest of Canada to see what happens next.

Park every aeroplane in the fleet, lay everyone off, stop paying all their bills, stop losing money, and sit back and watch.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by digits_ »

co-joe wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:00 pm I think Canadians have forgotten how dependent we are on air travel to run this geographically massive country. I personally think Canadians will continue to be unaware of this fact as long as the airlines are still operating. To me, the only answer is for AC and WS to follow Porter's/ TS/ Sinwing's lead, and simply shut down completely and wait for the rest of Canada to see what happens next.

Park every aeroplane in the fleet, lay everyone off, stop paying all their bills, stop losing money, and sit back and watch.
Other topics seem to imply that the operating flights have decent load factors. If that's true, then shutting everything down wouldn't help them deal with the fixed costs they'd still have.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
timeflies
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by timeflies »

porcsord wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:13 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:04 am So why would Canadian airlines be expected to refund when they received ZERO financial aid from the Government ?
Because they were unable to deliver the service they sold? The same reason that if I bought a TV from a store and then the TV was undeliverable I would expect a refund. You want the government to provide refunds for to citizens because the airline can't afford to? That is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm done here, but that logic makes us all look terrible.
sounds like Ed Sims heard you.
WestJet to start refunding flights cancelled amid COVID-19 pandemic

https://globalnews.ca/news/7411890/coro ... n-refunds/

Pretty obvious AC, etc will follow. is there government talks with airlines behind close door?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
fruz
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:17 pm

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by fruz »

YYCAME wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:29 am Good points there Porcsord. I'm laid off and while I'd appreciate government aid I don't think that I'm owed it or that government money should be used on bailouts without receiving some sort of public equity. Unlike the above comments though, I don't think it's healthy to demand solidarity and loyalty to our jobs unless you believe that the cult of corporate capitalism is good for everyone.

I'm not sure if protests are as effective when asking for handouts as they are in highlighting injustices, but I suppose that is a matter of public perception whether they see aviation aid as a handout or equalization with other industries and countries. My sense is that in general the public won't view aviation as mistreated and thus deserving due to the monopolistic nature of our industry.
From what I understand, the airline industry isn't requesting handouts but rather low interest loans. Big difference. It's important that people stay on message when doing these protests though.

Perhaps you're right about the public not being so sympathetic, but I still think it's worth doing. If not for public support but at least to spark conversation among the feds.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Image
kiaszceski
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:29 am

Re: March to Save Canadian Aviation

Post by kiaszceski »

timeflies wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:16 pm Pretty obvious AC, etc will follow. is there government talks with airlines behind close door?
Exactly, sit back relax and look everything unfold for Christmas, depending on US elections.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”