Interview process at sunwing

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I talked to a pilot who was interviewed at Sunwing recently. An experienced jet pilot. This pilot found the whole interview process to be pretty demeaning and even insulting. This pilot was interviewed by fellow pilots, not by HR types. I was given their names.

Who at Sunwing is vetting the 900 applications and disqualifying most Canadian pilots who apply, even the most qualified, to make sure that at the end, they will be "forced" to turn to Foreign pilots.

I am shocked to find that Canadian pilots would do this to fellow Canadian pilots.

Are the TFW pilots from Europe even interviewed by Sunwing before they are shipped over, of is this vetting only reserved for Canadian pilots ?

[Dh8Classic]

I heard that Sunwing is planning on a new rule for seasonal captains. You must be bilingual. The second language required will be Czech. End result, a majority of Canadian pilots will not meet the hiring requirement. Oh sure, if there is no one else, it may be waived for unilingual pilots but otherwise this fine job will disqualify the majority of Canadian pilots. It turns out that this second language is not required in order to get the job done but will be implemented anyway.

Imagine the shock from some of us(and justifiably so) if such a requirement was ever to be implemented resulting in the majority of Canadians not meeting the actual written down requirements only to be bypassed on rare occasion.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You must be one of those doing the interviews......

[I read not write]

Good day,

I have been following these treads regarding SWG for few years now and I have never posted anything on a public forum, however I think it's time that I stop biting my tongue and maybe take a moment to express my bit on this situation.

Gilles at certain times I have nothing but the utmost respect for your efforts and your motivation to help canadian pilots get these jobs that are given to TFW.

On the other hand, you clearly do step out of bounds and your post really make me question your true motive.

You have some very relavent and factual statements regarding the TFW program, however I would like to point out a few things that in my opinion does not really fit well with message you are trying to get to the aviation community and the travelling public.

I do believe that somewhere in these treads others have tried to point out areas where they thought your actions looked more like a personal attack on SWG instead of the " GOOD FIGHT." These people often get ridiculed and sometimes insulted by your followers and companions.

So the same might happen to my post, however I feel that there are a couple things that should say.

First off, where is it that you have inherited the powers to call on the former SWG Chief Pilot to come out publicly and discuss matters of a company that he worked for? Have you ever read your employment agreement, that states that you must respect company privacy matters and that company information/business must not be discussed outside of work during or after your term. That's like the Prime Minister telling the world everything about Canada's way of doing things that was discussed in privacy after his term, whether it was positive or negative. So I think you were completely out of line to call on SWG EX CP to discuss company business. From what I hear he was a very well respected boss and I don't think you get that status from breaking the rules. The same cannot be said for some employees from your company who were laid off and worked for SWG, yet they broke the rules by giving you private information that should not have been discussed outside of SWG.

SWG put out an add for pilots earlier this year. Before the ink even dried, you made accusations that they were doing something wrong? I think it was a good thing to see the ads for pilots and you cannot hang the defendant before trial. I again appreciate your enthusiasm but wait for the crime before acusations of being guilty.

You may say well it's been their practice in the past to post job ads to justify that they met the requirements to hire TFW. So that's why you choose to make such acusations that it was a false ad.

Well, you were proven wrong. They did interview and hired pilots with varying time/qualifications. Some jet pilots and some non jet pilots. So did SWG not proceed in the manner they advertised?

Your friend who did the interview who didn't get hired contacted you because he's upset that he was soo qualified, yet failed to AUTOMATICALLY be hired even though he met the requirements. News flash ladies and gentlemen. Though you meet the requirements and do the interview, doesn't mean you get the job. You may NOT fit the company profile and maybe you just simply failed the interview. Remember when a certain Asian airline (CP) would interview about 100 pilots for every position? Well everyone who interviewed was qualified but not everyone got the job. Our flagship carrier has PFO'd more pilots than your entire company in the past 4 years. Again, who they select for interview is entirely up to them. However I don't see you saying anything about their hiring practices in a negative way.

You are fighting for your friend who didn't get hired at SWG, because he is crying out to you and you cannot appreciate more than an opportunity to take a stab at that company. As a matter of a fact, you have, in my opinion, been the biggest advertiser for them. You really have made this one of the most sort after and competitive jobs in this nation. I think your friend went in with the attitude that he deserves this job instead of working for this job and that might be the biggest reason he didn't get it, just like an FO who thinks he deserve the CAPT upgrade without having to work for it and in turn fails the sim.

I also have an issue that this individual would give you the names of the pilots that interviewed him. What are you going to do with that? Again shows this persons integrity. What is the relevance? What would he do if they just picked him for a later ground school, yet he has gone and dragged the company name through the mud prior to getting the job.

My other question where I see no relevance. Why is it a problem with having the pilots do the interview? I remember long ago that's how it was mainly done and it worked. I do believe that you would much rather a good friend of yours help choose the person that you have to spend several days with at a time, instead of a newly graduated highly qualified HR person who has no idea what it's like to sit in very close quarters with someone for sometimes 14 hours a day.

I am not here to butt heads with you gentle folks on here, but I think that many may be wondering the same.

[Old fella]

This is a sensitive issue amongst the public(Canadians loosing/not getting)jobs due foreign workers-note RBC. If this gets into public domain in a serious way, people could indeed register their displeasure with their VISA cards against the offenders. Don't rule that out as competition is keen for your travel dollars.

[ahramin]

Your friend who did the interview who didn't get hired contacted you because he's upset that he was soo qualified, yet failed to AUTOMATICALLY be hired even though he met the requirements. News flash ladies and gentlemen. Though you meet the requirements and do the interview, doesn't mean you get the job. You may NOT fit the company profile and maybe you just simply failed the interview. Remember when a certain Asian airline (CP) would interview about 100 pilots for every position? Well everyone who interviewed was qualified but not everyone got the job. Our flagship carrier has PFO'd more pilots than your entire company in the past 4 years. Again, who they select for interview is entirely up to them. However I don't see you saying anything about their hiring practices in a negative way.

A good post but it's thinking like this that leads to the situation we have now where foreign pilots are working illegally in this country. Certainly a company is free to hire who they choose. Certainly no company should be forced to hire an individual simply because they are available and qualified. But that does not then confer the right to use foreign labour to fill a position. The company has the option of leaving that position unfilled, or hiring someone else and training them.

Understand where Gilles is coming from. He's been fighting this battle mostly alone, not anonymously, and has been repeatedly attacked for it. The current situation with TFWs, while somewhat improved from last year thanks to his efforts, is still completely unacceptable. There is absolutely zero argument that Sunwing can make that they have to hire foreign pilots. Air Canada has done a massive amount of hiring in the last 3 years and they didn't have to resort to it. Westjet had to expand to it's present size and they did it hiring Canadian King Air and Metro pilots and training them, Air Transat has hugely expanded it's pilot pool plus introduced a new type and they did it hiring and training Canadian pilots, the list goes on. Sunwing has found a business model that works well bringing in foreign labour and has lied and prevaricated in order to get around the laws regarding TFWs. It's horseshit, it's unacceptable, it should never have been allowed, and it needs to stop now. Not in five years, not in a couple years, now. There's no excuse.

[loopa]

Thank you for speaking our minds ahramin. I'm pretty sure the majority of us feel the same way as you. You just put it very elegantly.

Thanks for all your hard work Giles.

[Troubleshot]

While I agree with Gilles that the TFW program is being abused by Sunwing, I have noticed he has gone a little TMZ lately. That said more good will come from the discussion than bad, the issue needs a voice and Gilles has accepted the role.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Good day,
First off, where is it that you have inherited the powers to call on the former SWG Chief Pilot to come out publicly and discuss matters of a company that he worked for? Have you ever read your employment agreement, that states that you must respect company privacy matters and that company information/business must not be discussed outside of work during or after your term. That's like the Prime Minister telling the world everything about Canada's way of doing things that was discussed in privacy after his term, whether it was positive or negative. So I think you were completely out of line to call on SWG EX CP to discuss company business. From what I hear he was a very well respected boss and I don't think you get that status from breaking the rules. The same cannot be said for some employees from your company who were laid off and worked for SWG, yet they broke the rules by giving you private information that should not have been discussed outside of SWG.

SWG put out an add for pilots earlier this year. Before the ink even dried, you made accusations that they were doing something wrong? I think it was a good thing to see the ads for pilots and you cannot hang the defendant before trial. I again appreciate your enthusiasm but wait for the crime before acusations of being guilty.

You may say well it's been their practice in the past to post job ads to justify that they met the requirements to hire TFW. So that's why you choose to make such acusations that it was a false ad.

Well, you were proven wrong. They did interview and hired pilots with varying time/qualifications. Some jet pilots and some non jet pilots. So did SWG not proceed in the manner they advertised?

Your friend who did the interview who didn't get hired contacted you because he's upset that he was soo qualified, yet failed to AUTOMATICALLY be hired even though he met the requirements. News flash ladies and gentlemen. Though you meet the requirements and do the interview, doesn't mean you get the job. You may NOT fit the company profile and maybe you just simply failed the interview. Remember when a certain Asian airline (CP) would interview about 100 pilots for every position? Well everyone who interviewed was qualified but not everyone got the job. Our flagship carrier has PFO'd more pilots than your entire company in the past 4 years. Again, who they select for interview is entirely up to them. However I don't see you saying anything about their hiring practices in a negative way.

You are fighting for your friend who didn't get hired at SWG, because he is crying out to you and you cannot appreciate more than an opportunity to take a stab at that company. As a matter of a fact, you have, in my opinion, been the biggest advertiser for them. You really have made this one of the most sort after and competitive jobs in this nation. I think your friend went in with the attitude that he deserves this job instead of working for this job and that might be the biggest reason he didn't get it, just like an FO who thinks he deserve the CAPT upgrade without having to work for it and in turn fails the sim.

I also have an issue that this individual would give you the names of the pilots that interviewed him. What are you going to do with that? Again shows this persons integrity. What is the relevance? What would he do if they just picked him for a later ground school, yet he has gone and dragged the company name through the mud prior to getting the job.

My other question where I see no relevance. Why is it a problem with having the pilots do the interview? I remember long ago that's how it was mainly done and it worked. I do believe that you would much rather a good friend of yours help choose the person that you have to spend several days with at a time, instead of a newly graduated highly qualified HR person who has no idea what it's like to sit in very close quarters with someone for sometimes 14 hours a day.

I am not here to butt heads with you gentle folks on here, but I think that many may be wondering the same.

Air Transat went from zero B737 in early Feb 2014 to 12 B737 in Dec 2014. During that time it paid for over 125 Inital courses and type ratings and hired a bunch of pilots. Some were King Air and B1900 pilots and they are doing an excellent job because they all had several thousand hours of flight experience. By the time the high season kicked in, we were able to crew our 12 B737NG aircraft with a pool of fully qualified and competent Canadian pilots. Yet during the 2014 summer, we only had 4 B737s on the fleet, but every flight was either a training flight or a route check. Some pilots who were checked out early sat on their bums for months collecting a salary because their were no flights for them to do until peak season.

In light of this, I scoff at Sunwing's claim that it is unable to hire and train enough Canadian pilots for its peak season and is therefore forced to resort to TFW pilots from Europe. Many of Sunwing's pilots agree with me and feel very bad at the behavior of their employer. I was hoping that Mark Hughes was such a person and that he would be able to testify that Sunwing did indeed receive a large number of quality applications from Canadians and that there was a systematic policy of rejecting good applications in order to make room for the TFW. I asked Mark to contact ESDC or a journalist, or even myself. Secrecy can never be expected to cover up illegal or reprehensible behavior as it clearly is in this case.

This is why I often receive anonymous tips from Sunwing insiders. I never solicit information from those Sunwing pilots I know because I want to be able to honestly state I have no idea from whom my info came from. Sometimes it is from Avcanada. sometimes from email addresses that were created for the purpose. Other times through a third party.

I have been doing this for three years now. I can read a Sunwing ad and interpret it right away. As soon as the ad for 145 pilots in Aug was published I knew it for what it truly was,a precursor to a TFW application. And I was correct. I did not claim that the ad for 28 pilots to be hired in April and May was fake. I made that accusation for the 145 pilot ad to be hired in August and September. Those pilots you mention that were hired recently were hired under the first ad for 28 full time "First Officers" not the second one for 145 "Seasonal Pilots".

So no apologies required there. I do not think that Canjet pilots can afford the luxury of waiting for October to see if Sunwing really intends to hire TFW pilots for next year. It will be too late by then. The TFW have to be stopped now, and they will be. If ESDC risks approving them this next winter, there will be a backlash. Stating that there is a shortage of qualified pilots in Canada is akin to stating that waterboarding is not torture. We all know its false, including those that make the statement.

Please note that the pilots who contact me are unknown to me, and several contact me every day. So you think its normal for Sunwing who needs to hire 173 pilots, cannot find more than 40 pilots out of 900 Resumes ? Are the European pilots vetted with the same rigor? Are they even vetted at all? How many TFW pilots applied to come and work in Canada were disqualified by Sunwing after an interview or after looking their Resume over? What proposition was rejected?

Why is Sunwing the only company in Canada that seems to have this problem of finding qualified Canadian pilots?

I do not criticize our Flagship carrier for sending PFOs to any number of applicants because they do not use that as an excuse to hire TFW pilots as Sunwing does. Why do I even have to explain that to you?

After hearing what a particular pilot went through during the interview at Sunwing, I would have gladly dragged the pilots who did the interview in mud, if it was not for not wanting to reveal the identity of of the candidate, nor can I detail the specifics of the interview, although I wish I could. But rest assured, I did pass the information along. I have a hard time understanding why pilots would be willing to do this dirty work, but based on the comments such as those you make justifying the use of TFW pilots and the nature of the attacks I have been subject to by some Sunwing pilots here on this forum, I am not surprised. Just disgusted.
Why I am shocked at the fact that pilots do the interviews. I'm not. But my naive nature made me imagine that it was some HR types that did the dirty work of eliminating qualified Canadian pilots at at Sunwing, not fellow pilots. The way this particular interview was conducted indicates otherwise.

[CMD-A]

Hi "i read not write" !
Agree with you 100%.
Thanks for expressing the opinion of sane people on this forum.
As you said, get ready for the witchhunt.

[watermeth]

the ad for seasonal pilots was stating an august/September start.
calls might start going out now or in the next few weeks.
then we'll see.

[timel]

the ad for seasonal pilots was stating an august/September start.
calls might start going out now or in the next few weeks.
then we'll see.

Sunwing received 900 resumes and they interviewed 70 candidates.
Sunwing is planning to hire 105 TFW next winter, they said it!
Why did they put an ad for 145 pilots on avcanada, if they don't plan to hire 145 Canadian pilots ...? We all know why.

There is absolutely zero argument that Sunwing can make that they have to hire foreign pilots. Air Canada has done a massive amount of hiring in the last 3 years and they didn't have to resort to it. Westjet had to expand to it's present size and they did it hiring Canadian King Air and Metro pilots and training them, Air Transat has hugely expanded it's pilot pool plus introduced a new type and they did it hiring and training Canadian pilots, the list goes on.

So true!

It is time Sunwing stops discriminating against Canadian pilots! It is time the government takes action!
The request for TFWP MUST BE rejected next winter and not only for Sunwing! There are more then enough Canadian pilots to fill the jobs!

[I read not write]

From your previous post Gilles, I would fist like to express that in no way I am attacking you for your efforts to at the least balance the TFW pilot program.

I am merely commenting on your angle that you have chosen to still criticize SWG even though they are showing commitment to their ads (so far) because a pilot who was regected came to you to defend him. The simple fact is, they didn't fail to hire him to hire a TWF. All positions were filled by Canadian licenced pilots and for whatever reason he was not selected. I know the feeling of being rejected for a job and the frustration boils over. Like every other pilot in the the market, we all feel that with our superior skills and greatness that NO company should reject us, however it is just that maybe he didn't answer the questions how they wanted, or he did not fit their culture. I do feel for him because it appears that he really wanted to work for this company and he brought his concerns to the public.

As for the way your company or any company decide how many crews they will keep on hand and whether they want to pay pilots to sit idle is entirely up to management and crew planners. However I don't think that you also have the right to suggest that SWG hire all the CJ pilots NOW and pay them till they need them. First off it really doesn't make sense from a business point. I don't think you can convince a group that has been making profit, to do the same thing as a company that is losing money quarterly, to follow your lead and put pilots on the roster before they are needed. They pay big bucks for crew planners to sort that out.

I to am very curious to see what will happen in the near future. I do hope that SWG is able to find a way to now fit these CJ pilots into a seat. First off let's try to get them a seat and worry later which side they will sit on.

You mentioned that you have many people who make accounts to send you information about SWG. Well again they are anonymous and you really don't know your source so you cannot automatically assume everything you get is facts. This should deter you from posting any of this information from random people. Most will have no merit. Call me paranoid but if I was in your position, with a very public face I would be extremely careful of the information that you post from anonymous sources. There are very smart people out there who could sabotage your efforts by giving you bad information to empower the opponent, because unlike most people on here who stay anonymous, you have your name attached.

Once I figure out how to post properly and cut and paste like the experts on here, I will make reference to the paragraphs that I refer.

[photofly]

Are the European pilots pilots vetted with the same rigor are are they even vetted at all ? How many TFW pilots applied to come and work in Canada were disqualified by Sunwing after an interview or after looking their Resume over ? What proposition was rejected ?

I was wondering exactly this. Seems to get to the heart of the matter.

Does anyone care to check how the foreign pilots are to spend 14 hours in a cockpit with, if that's a huge hurdle for Canadians to meet?

[AuxBatOn]

After hearing what a particular pilot went through during the interview at Sunwing, I would have gladly dragged the pilots who did the interview in mud

Gilles, this is precisely your problem: you place judgement and accusations with only 1 side of the medal and definately not all the facts.

In this particular case, you are ready to diffame people with information given by 1 person (which is very biaised based on the frustration experienced by the individual): you have 1 side of a 3-sided story. I am sure the story from the interviewers isuch different and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

But don't let the truth get in the way of pre-loaded ideas.

Is your fight nobel? Perhaps... I don't think your approach is conductive to problem resolution. Putting people in corners never is a good thing.

[snoopy]

Oh the spelling in that post is making me cringe!

[AuxBatOn]

Oh the spelling in that post is making me cringe!

Sorry, typing on an iPhone in my 2nd language.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The problem AuxBat, is that it is not the version of one person. Every day I hear from new people who were type rated on the 737, both Captain anf FO, and who were PFOd by Sunwing. A couple today, a couple yesterday, a couple the day before. It seems most ex Canjet pilots had major flaws that require them to be by passed in favor of more suitable TFW pilots who are probably not even interviewed.

Canjet laid off 68 type rated 737 pilots. Sunwing hired 8 although they need 173 pilots between April and Sept. They turn down most type rated guys as unsuitable and then claim they need to hire TFW pilots.

I fail to understand why you are not with me on this.

You will notice that no one will come in this Forum and tell you that 80% of TFW pilots who apply to come to Canada are PFOd by Sunwing. They are all perfect, as long as they pass the sim ride.

[snoopy]

Canadian Aviator picked up the story: http://canadianaviator.com/may-0715/

[ea306]

Tip on how to not market oneself during an interview if one wants to get a job.

1)- Don't show up for the interview in Jeans.

2)- When expressing yourself during an interview....it is best to refrain from using "F" Bombs.

Seriously folks... Having a Type Rating is probably not going to help over looking that kind of behaviour.