Foreign Workers in Canada

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Charley
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Foreign Workers in Canada

#1 Post by Charley » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:38 pm

Word on the street is, Air Transat has signed a deal for (4) 737-800 Wet Leases with Travel Service for 4 years....Interesting considering they're taking over ac from CanJet on dry leases, putting qualified Canadian drivers out of work.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#2 Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:05 pm

If Transat is also sending at least 4 airplanes to Europe next summer on wet lease, then this is a moo point..



http://youtu.be/KAyAp33MfLw
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Charley
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#3 Post by Charley » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:25 pm

My understanding is that they are sending one of their A330's in exchange...on a dry lease. Sounds equitable....
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rocket81
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#4 Post by rocket81 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:44 pm

We had all these threads most people didn't give a $h1t and petitions against temporary foreign working that 1/10th of Canadian pilots cared to sign. Now stop whining, this industry gets what it deserves.
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Charley
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#5 Post by Charley » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:08 pm

I'm not whining rocket81, i'm poking a bear...and you're not him. BTW, try editing your posts so they make sense before you submit them. Cheers
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#6 Post by Jean-Luc Monette » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:19 pm

Funny though Charley, first time we see you posting on the subject...
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Charley
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#7 Post by Charley » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:52 pm

Jean-Luc Monette wrote:Funny though Charley, first time we see you posting on the subject...

And this is funny why exactly? I assure you however, it's not my first time....
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#8 Post by OceanGal » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:56 am

So, let me get this straight.......TS takes away the original contract from CanJet....a Canadian company with Canadian pilots........and.......CanJet lays off most of its pilots.......TS gives the work to a European company with European pilots.

CanJet's permanent fleet of 4 aircraft could have done this work without using foreign pilots.

Interesting optics.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#9 Post by aerosexual » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:29 am

OceanGal wrote:So, let me get this straight.......TS takes away the original contract from CanJet....a Canadian company with Canadian pilots........and.......CanJet lays off most of its pilots.......TS gives the work to a European company with European pilots.

CanJet's permanent fleet of 4 aircraft could have done this work without using foreign pilots.

Interesting optics.
Canjet, the Canadian company that made use of foreign pilots in order to fulfill their contract with Transat Vacations, ends up losing the contract and Air Transat gives the work to a European company with European pilots.

Interesting optics indeed!

This whole thing is a mess, and it's not Canjet, nor Sunwing, nor Air Transat, nor ALPA, nor CALPA, nor Unifor, nor anybody but the present government that allows and encourages this to take place. The government stance is that the use of foreign pilots is obviously legal, so companies will take full advantage of whatever they can in order to compete. Pointing fingers, blaming the competition and chest thumping is not conducive to moving forward on this issue within the industry.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#10 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:22 am

Let me sum it up:

Transat used to contract its 737 flying to Canjet , which employed about 120 Canadian pilots and also made use of about 40 foreign pilots (TFW) in the winter. The contract was for about a dozen 737s in winter and four in the summer
In the spring of 2013, Transat decided to give that contract to its own subsidary, Air Transat, instead of Canjet.The Canjet contract was to end in May 2014.
In Dec 2013, Air Transat, which had about 330 pilots, not only recalled all of those that had been laid off, and began to hire and train Canadian pilots for its 2014-2015 season, almost a year in advance. Because AT did not yet have any 737s to train on, it made arrangements with Enerjet and Canjet to train AT pilots. AT was planning to operate 4 737s as of May 2014, and 12 737s as of Dec 2014. The presence of about 24 AT pilots at Canjet during the winter 2013-2014 limited Canjets' use on TFW pilots, the last time they would make use of such.
Around Feb or Mar 2014, AT dry leased a single 737 from Europe, for the sole purpose of training its pilots.The first of our real 737s was to arrive in June 2014, while the arrival of 3 others from their previous leassor was delayed. Not having enough aircraft and flights to do the required training, AT renewed a short contract with Canjet for 2 years for 1 737 wet lease in the summer and 2 for the winter. At the same time, Canjet announced the creation of Canjet Vacations, prompting most Canjet pilots not to jump ship to Transat which was hiring, but to sit tight.
Transat contitued to hire and train pilots in 2014 and flew 12 737s in the 2014-2015 winter, in addition to the 2 Canjet wet leases. Some extra flying also wet to Enerjet as well.There were no foreign pilots flying for Transat that winter.Transat had about 450 pilots by that point.
In the meantime, Sunwing, which employed about 250 Canadian pilots, continued to expand, brining its winter fleet to 40 aircraft, using close to 200 foreign pilots between its 5 wet leases from Czech Travel Service and the 110 TFW it imported to fly Canadian Registered aircraft with a Foreign Licence.
Canjet Vacations was a flop, and for reasons I ignore, Canjet decided not to do the 2 aircraft contract that they were to do for AT in the winter of 2015-2016, so Transat now needed not only to bring that additional flying in house, but also had a planned expansion of the 737 fleet to counter Sunwings' competition (to the detriment of wide body flying).
Transat put out an ad for seasonal pilots (Canadians), while continuing to hire and train Canadian full time pilots. It now employs 500 full time pilots, 150+ more than it employed before it brought the 737 flying in house.
The seasonal pilot deal does not seem to have worked out with the Union. AT now seems to be short of crews to do all the 737 flying it has planned for next winter, although they are still hiring and training new pilots.
It decided to sign this Foreign Wet Lease with Czech based Travel Service, the same company that provides many wet leases and TFW pilots to Sunwing every winter.

This is a company where pilots have to pay their own type ratings to get hired, where low time junior pilots with just a commercial licence are not only hired in the right seat, as is typical in Europe, but whose starting salary is under 1000 Euros per month and where Captains sometimes earn less than a Canadian First Officer. So I imagine that their wet lease rates must be pretty good, which explains why Sunwing and now Transat like doing business with them.
But Sunwing has been at it for years, and no one seemed willing to put a stop to it. Now Transat joined the bandwagon. Whats next ? TFW at Transat ? We'll know soon enough.

Am I happy ? I am mad as hell. Many people were against having seasonal Canadian captains at Air Transat. Well I have news for those people. Czech Travel Service Captains are "seasonal captains".Except they are just not Canadian. Instead of succeeding in making Sunwing look like Transat, the dark forces have succeeded in making Transat begin to morph into Sunwing.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

I read not write
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#11 Post by I read not write » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:15 am

Gilles

Should we now take this to the media but YOU have to lead the way
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#12 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:51 am

I read not write wrote:Gilles

Should we now take this to the media but YOU have to lead the way
And who are you, Mr Out of the Blue with 4 posts on AvCanada. Who do you work for ? What suddenly drives you on this Forum ? The smell blood turns you on or some little voice in your head suddenly told you you had to pitch in to help your fellow pilots ?
And what should I denounce to the media exactly ? Spell it out for me. Something that may happen next winter ? Why would they listen when they do not care about something that has been going on for years and that I have been denouncing for years.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#13 Post by Charley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:03 am

How many, if any, of those seasonal pilot positions were filled with qualified Canadians before that "deal" fell through with the union in favor of a proposed deal for seasonal foreign pilots for 4 years?
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#14 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:10 am

Charley wrote:How many, if any, of those seasonal pilot positions were filled with qualified Canadians before that "deal" fell through with the union in favor of a proposed deal for seasonal foreign pilots for 4 years?
No seasonal pilots were hired, only full time pilots.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#15 Post by Charley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:16 am

So what becomes of the pool of resumes of qualified pilots who applied for those positions? Because of all the individuals I know who applied, they got nothing more than an automated email reply acknowledging receipt of their CV's
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#16 Post by I read not write » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:30 am

Gilles,

Again you get upset and defensive when you are faced with a question you don't like.

What does the amount of posts have to do with my opinion on a subject? I can now think how you look at other pilots just because they don't have as many hours as you. They are clearly not as good as you right?

How does the smell of blood turn someone on?

And what voices in my head are you talking about?

Should I go see a doctor because I asked some questions on a public forum and I only have 4 posts?

As far as who I am? Actually you and I are very similar in many ways? One thing that is different about me is that if someone ask me a tough question, I will not become defensive and try to belittle the person who asked the question to minimize the true reason for not answering. You are somebody. I am just an annonymous poster on here with no merit.

As you can see, in my name, I read not write. That should say something. That's why I have 4 posts.

I have been reading and following many different topics on a canary for 19 years now. Many things on here affect me the same way it affects you. I too need to make sure that when things are said and done, my family needs to be protected also.

As far as what to take to the media, you tell me. If you go back and read through your many posts on wet leased pilot, you were always ready to take it to the media
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#17 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:48 am

Charley wrote:So what becomes of the pool of resumes of qualified pilots who applied for those positions? Because of all the individuals I know who applied, they got nothing more than an automated email reply acknowledging receipt of their CV's
I have no idea. I would like Transat to first allow its full time pilots to do the available flying, and then allow Canadian seasonal pilots to do what flying the full time pilots cannot do. This foreign pilot thing is no good.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#18 Post by aerosexual » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:09 am

Why would the union have an issue with seasonal Canadian pilots? Or was this a ploy that the company used to justify their use of foreign pilots? Was there perhaps an issue with direct entry captains?
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#19 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:07 am

Deleted. I dont reply to people on my ignore list
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#20 Post by FICU » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:10 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: This is a company where pilots have to pay their own type ratings to get hired, where low time junior pilots with just a commercial licence are not only hired in the right seat, as is typical in Europe, but whose starting salary is under 1000 Euros per month and where Captains sometimes earn less than a Canadian First Officer.
Air Transat is now off my list for holiday vacations joining Sunwing... and I will let all family and friends know about this and convince them to stick with Canadian airlines with only Canadian pilots.

what a disgrace this is becoming!
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#21 Post by ahramin » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:16 am

FICU wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: This is a company where pilots have to pay their own type ratings to get hired, where low time junior pilots with just a commercial licence are not only hired in the right seat, as is typical in Europe, but whose starting salary is under 1000 Euros per month and where Captains sometimes earn less than a Canadian First Officer.
Air Transat is now off my list for holiday vacations joining Sunwing... and I will let all family and friends know about this and convince them to stick with Canadian airlines with only Canadian pilots.

what a disgrace this is becoming!
Yep. It seems Red and Westjet are now the only way to go.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#22 Post by BBQ Chips » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:27 am

Obviously Gilles isn't responsible for Transat taking on the four wet lease's, the market is. He has made progress for all Canadian pilots and hopefully the ball continues to roll. IMHO the only answer is 100% reciprocity, no exceptions. Whether you are with Sunwing, Transat or whomever, Gilles has done us a service thus far. Hopefully our government cracks down and corrects an obviously out of whack situation.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#23 Post by Johnny#5 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:49 am

As you can see, in my name, I read not write.
Yeah you do.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#24 Post by aerosexual » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:02 pm

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
aerosexual wrote:Why would the union have an issue with seasonal Canadian pilots? Or was this a ploy that the company used to justify their use of foreign pilots? Was there perhaps an issue with direct entry captains?
Nothing is known at this point. I was in no way involved in those negociations, do not know what the company wanted, nor do I know what the Union may have objected to, if anything. We will soon know however......
Fair enough. And I agree with the post above, 100% reciprocity is the only way to justify the use of foreign pilots. Having said that, there is a lot of movement these days, let's just hope nothing happens to cause instability for everybody's sake.
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Re: Foreign Workers in Canada

#25 Post by AuxBatOn » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:31 pm

[quote="aerosexual]
Fair enough. And I agree with the post above, 100% reciprocity is the only way to justify the use of foreign pilots. Having said that, there is a lot of movement these days, let's just hope nothing happens to cause instability for everybody's sake.[/quote]

Slightly hypocrite, isn't it?

One of the HUGE factors in the fight against Sunwing's TFW program was how "unsafe" those pilots were. I guess the fact that they (indirectly) work for AT makes them a lot safer...
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