Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

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Joe Blow Schmo
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#51 Post by Joe Blow Schmo » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:12 pm

Mig29 wrote:I believe he's trying to say that the market is going to tank in the future...
No, what he is trying to say is that if the market does tank, you go to jail if you can't pay your debts and you don't get out until they're paid. How you're supposed to raise the money from jail is not something they concern themselves with.

That just applies to the middle east. By all means buy property in other parts of Asia if that's where you're living.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#52 Post by complexintentions » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:14 pm

While I always try and remain respectful of my fellow aviator's opinions, particularly other expats, there sure are a lot of strongly held views on ME employment by folks who apparently have never a. lived in the Middle East or b. worked for a ME airline. :mrgreen:

"Once an expat, always an expat".

Good grief. Not even remotely true. Many of my colleagues both EK and otherwise have returned to Canada and are flying there now. Yes, it can be difficult to go back to Canadian wages and taxes. One former CX pilot was grilled hard by Encore on why she wanted to work there. (But got the job). Another bounced around a few other expat carriers after EK before landing at NavCanada. Others took niche jobs where pay didn't have to be the primary consideration, because of their earnings and investments while abroad. Some left the industry to do other things they enjoyed, again because they had the luxury of doing so. Some just plain retired early (my plan!) because they had saved and invested diligently.

The reasons many don't return to Canada isn't because they can't - they discover they don't want to! THAT is the real "risk" of becoming an expat, it will change your worldview, maybe for the better, maybe not, but it will become harder to put up with the typical mindset of your home country once you have been away from it for long enough. People meet people, move to different places. Buy properties and businesses in other countries. Friend of mine is retiring this year with his Vietnamese wife to Vietnam, she owns a business there. Another bought a resort in Sri Lanka and is running that. I'm not trying to paint things as easy, or overly glamorous. Just that there are a lot of options if you are willing to broaden your horizons. It is getting harder all the time, that has to be acknowledged. EK is a disaster these days, to be honest, and the worst part is they don't even seem to realize it. But declining conditions are a world-wide phenomena, not just in expat jobs.

Yes, you have to be smart about it, and have a plan. You won't make or save as much as you think, but you CAN absolutely make far more than in Canada - IF you can deal with the totally different lifestyle and the huge sacrifices it takes. Of course, if you live beyond your means in Canada, you will do the same outside the borders, and nothing can help you. There is no cure for stupid.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#53 Post by complexintentions » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:20 pm

As far as owning properties in Dubai, I have many colleagues who have both made and lost fortunes in real estate. Blanket statements against one thing or another are stupid.

My own opinion is that I would never touch properties in the UAE with a ten foot pole, but that's because I prefer liquidity and the freedom of having all of my assets outside of the borders. But there are hundreds of pilots using the housing allowance to pay their mortgages, and it seems to work for them. Time will tell when they go to sell, I suppose.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#54 Post by Joe Blow Schmo » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:30 pm

^ ^ ^ What he said ^ ^ ^
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#55 Post by ahramin » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:31 pm

As always complex, well stated.

If your goal is to be an airline pilot in Canada, working overseas is probably not a good route. If you want to do any other kind of flying, working overseas may be the best route. Each person has different goals and they are rarely constant throughout your life.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#56 Post by Eric Janson » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:23 am

North Shore wrote:Why's that? Does it automatically make you a resident, or, being a non-citizen of those countries, do you have no property rights there?
Your "rights" in the UAE as Expat are minimal to none. Plenty of stories online.

Here's an analysis of the UAE property market complete with the history.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Midd ... ce-History

My opinion :wink:

This is speculating at best - not an investment.

If you don't understand the difference between investing and speculating then substitute the word gambling for speculating.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#57 Post by Mig29 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:10 am

Joe Blow Schmo wrote:
Mig29 wrote:I believe he's trying to say that the market is going to tank in the future...
No, what he is trying to say is that if the market does tank, you go to jail if you can't pay your debts and you don't get out until they're paid. How you're supposed to raise the money from jail is not something they concern themselves with.

That just applies to the middle east. By all means buy property in other parts of Asia if that's where you're living.

Really, I never heard of this before. If this is really true, then when it comes to buying property there, I would stay away as far as possible.
Mind you though, if you lose a job due to "financial" crisis at Emirates, then I'm pretty sure the rest of the state (UAE) would be hurting pretty bad.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#58 Post by Loads » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:09 am

Its going to be an interesting year in the ME. I have never heard this much military traffic in the area since 03-09, we counted 5 different "Python" call signs (tankers) going up the gulf on my last trip. UAE airspace was closed earlier this month for a security threat (NOTHING in any media). The UAE just introduced a 22% raise in petrol prices and further increases will be under review monthly, as well they announced a sales tax will be starting in 18 months. Finally only 6 corporate jets in DXB and 7 in DWC.... Usually there are easily 25-30 at any one time.

Maybe nothing but if anyone is serious about coming out, ask a lot of questions first!

Complex Intentions has the best objective advice.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#59 Post by GRK2 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:19 pm

VAT...careful, so far it's only on paper. The plan (as we've read so far) is to implement a VAT for "luxury items" only. (tobacco, booze and high end cars.) In addition, there will be a minimum of a two year grace period to allow vendors to introduce the system. No need to panic just yet...if you don't smoke, drive a Ferrari, or drink much, then it's minimal. The gas thing is kinda disturbing though...we now drive less, and plan our outings a little better because of that increase.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#60 Post by Flyboycanada80 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:27 pm

Other than taking a pay cut etc. how hard is it to come back and find a job. Do employers value the experience?
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#61 Post by tbaylx » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:55 am

Flyboycanada80 wrote:Other than taking a pay cut etc. how hard is it to come back and find a job. Do employers value the experience?
You will certainly be competitive for any airline job in Canada after returning. The issue is you're competing for an entry level airline job at the bottom of the seniority list, same as any other pilot still in Canada. In North America seniority rules, not experience once you meet the minimum entry level standards.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#62 Post by Eric Janson » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:08 am

tbaylx wrote:
Flyboycanada80 wrote:Other than taking a pay cut etc. how hard is it to come back and find a job. Do employers value the experience?
You will certainly be competitive for any airline job in Canada after returning. The issue is you're competing for an entry level airline job at the bottom of the seniority list, same as any other pilot still in Canada. In North America seniority rules, not experience once you meet the minimum entry level standards.
Some personal perspective:-

After I got Command on the 737 going back to Canada became less and less of an option. It made no sense from either a career or financial viewpoint. Difference in salary was over 50%.

I didn't want to go back to being First Officer - in the past I've resigned from a good job because that's what was going to happen.

Once I started flying wide-bodied aircraft all over the World the financial and career costs of going back to Canada became even greater.

I live in a country where I am not a citizen. I own a house there and I've made it my home. It works for me.

My company sends me a ticket to wherever they need me to go on day one of my roster and sends me home on the last day of my roster. Works for me as well.

I appreciate we all have different needs and goals - but if you do decide to become Expat you will be facing this issue at some point.

Within the group of Expats I know/worked with (all nationalities) the only ones who went back to their home countries were the ones who retired.
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#63 Post by upintheair_ » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:26 am

Do you work at SriLankan airways?
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#64 Post by Eric Janson » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:32 pm

upintheair_ wrote:Do you work at SriLankan airways?
Not anymore. I work for this company:

http://www.hifly.aero/en/
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#65 Post by aerosexual » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:42 am

Eric Janson wrote:
upintheair_ wrote:Do you work at SriLankan airways?
Not anymore. I work for this company:

http://www.hifly.aero/en/
Eric, HiFly seems like an interesting company, and I hear it is much better than the competing EuroAtlantic Airways. I'm guessing it is only an option for those with an EASA licence and European citizenship?
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Re: Middle East now open to Turbo Prop Pilots'

#66 Post by complexintentions » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:22 pm

Lisbon is a great city to be based in. I love Portugal, like Spain without the attitude! :mrgreen:
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