777 captain for $175K

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Joe Blow Schmo
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#51 Post by Joe Blow Schmo » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:07 am

So looking on Canadian pilot pay, a year 7 WJ captain gets $185/hour.

1000 hours/year = $185,000
+20% ESOP = $37,000

T4 total: $222,000

Actual gross cash in hand: $222,000 - $37,000 (company ESOP) - $37,000 (employee ESOP) = $148,000

Max RRSP deduction for 2015: $24,930

Taxable income: $222,000 - $24,930 = $197,070

If you live an AB with a wife and 2 kids aged 7-16 (wife doesn't have income) and claim only the RRSP deduction you'll have an annual tax bill of $61,817.

So total NET cash in hand: $148,000 - $61,817 = $86,183 = $7,182/month

Is that about right?
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#52 Post by flyingvinnie » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:46 pm

Joe Blow Schmo wrote:So looking on Canadian pilot pay, a year 7 WJ captain gets $185/hour.

1000 hours/year = $185,000
+20% ESOP = $37,000

T4 total: $222,000

Actual gross cash in hand: $222,000 - $37,000 (company ESOP) - $37,000 (employee ESOP) = $148,000

Max RRSP deduction for 2015: $24,930

Taxable income: $222,000 - $24,930 = $197,070

If you live an AB with a wife and 2 kids aged 7-16 (wife doesn't have income) and claim only the RRSP deduction you'll have an annual tax bill of $61,817.

So total NET cash in hand: $148,000 - $61,817 = $86,183 = $7,182/month

Is that about right?
Very rarely will you get an HONEST answer from a WJ pilot regarding what their TAKE HOME pay is.
I'd like some new hire FO's at WJ to post what their actual take home pay is.....
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#53 Post by DropTanks » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:42 pm

flyingvinnie wrote:
Joe Blow Schmo wrote:So looking on Canadian pilot pay, a year 7 WJ captain gets $185/hour.

1000 hours/year = $185,000
+20% ESOP = $37,000

T4 total: $222,000

Actual gross cash in hand: $222,000 - $37,000 (company ESOP) - $37,000 (employee ESOP) = $148,000

Max RRSP deduction for 2015: $24,930

Taxable income: $222,000 - $24,930 = $197,070

If you live an AB with a wife and 2 kids aged 7-16 (wife doesn't have income) and claim only the RRSP deduction you'll have an annual tax bill of $61,817.

So total NET cash in hand: $148,000 - $61,817 = $86,183 = $7,182/month

Is that about right?
Very rarely will you get an HONEST answer from a WJ pilot regarding what their TAKE HOME pay is.
I'd like some new hire FO's at WJ to post what their actual take home pay is.....
All righty then...1st yr F/O

Take home $3150/month including per diems. No overtime. 77.5hrs/month
Plus $1733 goes into my ESP (RRSP) each month.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#54 Post by justwork » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:46 am

DropTanks wrote:
flyingvinnie wrote:
Joe Blow Schmo wrote:So looking on Canadian pilot pay, a year 7 WJ captain gets $185/hour.

1000 hours/year = $185,000
+20% ESOP = $37,000

T4 total: $222,000

Actual gross cash in hand: $222,000 - $37,000 (company ESOP) - $37,000 (employee ESOP) = $148,000

Max RRSP deduction for 2015: $24,930

Taxable income: $222,000 - $24,930 = $197,070

If you live an AB with a wife and 2 kids aged 7-16 (wife doesn't have income) and claim only the RRSP deduction you'll have an annual tax bill of $61,817.

So total NET cash in hand: $148,000 - $61,817 = $86,183 = $7,182/month

Is that about right?
Very rarely will you get an HONEST answer from a WJ pilot regarding what their TAKE HOME pay is.
I'd like some new hire FO's at WJ to post what their actual take home pay is.....
All righty then...1st yr F/O

Take home $3150/month including per diems. No overtime. 77.5hrs/month
Plus $1733 goes into my ESP (RRSP) each month.

Seriously!!? Or is that encore? I know a few guys at encore who always mention they work at west jet
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#55 Post by Ex DC10 Driver » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:04 am

Just work....you are a piece of work.

Seriously? Is such a sassy response to Drop Tanks who was giving you exactly what you asked for. Thanks would have been a classier response.

The amount of take home per month based solely on salary is correct for WestJet I can't comment on Encore.

Remember WestJet remuneration is based on 5 items:
1). Salary plus O.T
2). ESP....20% of your salary can be put into an account and matched by the company. You have access to it after it vests in one year.
3). Profit share twice a year. Amount fluctuates and is not a certainty.
4). Restricted share units given once a year in spring...guaranteed amount or possible higher amount depending on stock set price and if stock price increases. You have 4 years to exercise.
5.). Employee bonus passed upon company performance

This is why WestJet pay is not straight forward and most refer to their end of year t4 to state their income.
However, take home each month based on pay checks only is correct.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#56 Post by watermeth » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Thanks dc10 for this answer.
Are RSU taxed and added to you T4 ? Is there another way to do it than just cashing in ?
Thanks.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#57 Post by Jean-Luc Monette » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:16 am

Ex DC10 Driver wrote: Remember WestJet remuneration is based on 5 items:
1). Salary plus O.T
2). ESP....20% of your salary can be put into an account and matched by the company. You have access to it after it vests in one year.
3). Profit share twice a year. Amount fluctuates and is not a certainty.
4). Restricted share units given once a year in spring...guaranteed amount or possible higher amount depending on stock set price and if stock price increases. You have 4 years to exercise.
5.). Employee bonus passed upon company performance

This is why WestJet pay is not straight forward and most refer to their end of year t4 to state their income.
However, take home each month based on pay checks only is correct.

However, I remember going to the bank for a loan and the only thing they were interested in was 1) minus O.T.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#58 Post by flyingvinnie » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:33 am

Jean-Luc Monette wrote:
Ex DC10 Driver wrote: Remember WestJet remuneration is based on 5 items:
1). Salary plus O.T
2). ESP....20% of your salary can be put into an account and matched by the company. You have access to it after it vests in one year.
3). Profit share twice a year. Amount fluctuates and is not a certainty.
4). Restricted share units given once a year in spring...guaranteed amount or possible higher amount depending on stock set price and if stock price increases. You have 4 years to exercise.
5.). Employee bonus passed upon company performance

This is why WestJet pay is not straight forward and most refer to their end of year t4 to state their income.
However, take home each month based on pay checks only is correct.

However, I remember going to the bank for a loan and the only thing they were interested in was 1) minus O.T.
Exactly. That is the figure I am looking for....
Have heard from a few new hires that their take home pay is around $800...???
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#59 Post by DropTanks » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:43 am

ugh
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Last edited by DropTanks on Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#60 Post by flyingvinnie » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:00 pm

Exactly. That is the figure I am looking for....
Have heard from a few new hires that their take home pay is around $800...???[/quote]

That's a bit exaggerated but I've heard of checks being in the $900 range NOT including per diems. What those guys have failed to do is the following... If their ESP is set up as a RRSP they would expect a huge tax refund next year so what they should do is request that the company withhold less income
Tax each pay. That's how you rebuild your take home every two weeks to something around $1200. Take home can vary slightly depending on the benefits the person chooses as well. Some more, some less.

So the difference is that the guy with the $900 take home has already paid tax on his company portion of ESP and he can use that money as he wishes after its vested. I however cannot touch that money because it's in a RRSP earmarked for retirement, but I have a better monthly cash flow situation. Either way it's up to the individual. Rest assured that gross pay for 1st year F/O is a minimum of around 55k. ESP participation is optional but you'd be crazy not to take an additional 20% pay...you just have to sacrifice 20% of your pay now to get it. Look at it this way, if you can live off the pay as I described in a previous post, you can say that you will save 40% of your salary for retirement. 20% from you and 20% from the company. I'll take that deal all day long.[/quote]


$900 take home for flying a 737, WOW! :roll:

Even $1200, wowzers.

I have heard some guys say that when they went there, they had to cash in some of their RRSP's that they previously held, just to feed their family and pay bills. INSANE!

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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#61 Post by tbaylx » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:13 pm

It's no different at AC, Transat, etc. All our major 705 operators pay 50K or less for the first few years. One of the reasons they are having to hire less experienced younger guys is because few people with families and who have been around for awhile are able to afford to work for the starting wages.

Doesn't seem to affect their recruitment however and no one is parking airplanes yet so guess its working out for them.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#62 Post by nohojob » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:05 pm

Tbalix

That is not the case at Sunwing.

I believe Cargojet starts higher than that too.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#63 Post by DropTanks » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:02 pm

nohojob wrote:Tbalix

That is not the case at Sunwing.

I believe Cargojet starts higher than that too.
I thought Sunwing started at $53/hr so roughly 50k/yr.

Cargojet only has a 3% pension match?

Is that info up to date on Canadian Pilot Pay website?
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#64 Post by North Shore » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:20 pm

[I dont work at an airline, so dont really have a dog in the hunt here, but..] Going back a few posts to the salary #s.. $58.5k/yr for the first year to fly a 737 doesnt seem that out of line? As someone above has posted, thats pretty much par for the course at any other Canadian operator - with the added bonus of a built-in pension plan. And, if I'm told correctly, by the 3rd or 4th year you ar bumping into 6 figures, which is a pretty decent salary in the grand scheme of things..
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#65 Post by nohojob » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:08 am

Yes 53k the first year, 66k second year, 72k third.

Not perfect by any means, but not the worst either
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#66 Post by justwork » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:54 pm

Ex DC10 Driver wrote:Just work....you are a piece of work.

Seriously? Is such a sassy response to Drop Tanks who was giving you exactly what you asked for. Thanks would have been a classier response.
OMG, like totally sorry 4 being so sassy (flips her long blond hair). I never asked anything, I don't think I did anyway. I just read, then had a hard time picking my jaw up off the floor. You know what's worse? I read further down something about $8-900 pay checks... I say again: SERIOUSLY?
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#67 Post by justwork » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:59 pm

Wait, isn't this thread about some 777 job? Classic Avcanada. No, classic avcanada would have more catdriver and thecolonel.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#68 Post by AirMail » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:01 pm

Easy now. You just may go offending someone again.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#69 Post by yycflyguy » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:34 pm

crazyaviator wrote:Pilots: Type A, egocentric, proud, back-stabbing, entitlement junkies who always feel they are worth more than they aught to be paid!
Many pilots get their nickers in a knot when foreign pilots come over to Canada to take their job but those same pilots wouldn't think twice about going over to a 3rd world ( or close to) country and DEMANDING a wage that is 500 times MORE than the average laborer in that country and perhaps 5-10 times more than what ANY indigenous pilot would beg to have!
A lead AME who signs off the B777 aught to be paid at least HALF the pay of the captain of the same plane, don"t you think?
If the salary of a B737 captain rose to $400.000.00 4 years from now and was STILL the lowest paid 737 captain in the 1st world countries,,, most pilots would still complain! PATHETIC !!!
As an accomplished AME and Comm pilot, i still prefer cracking open a beer with a dirty, foul mouthed AME than a back-stabbing, position jockeying, judgmental pilot ! :P
I have found roughly 3 times as many assholes in my time with pilots as I have with AME's. Any other ideas why ?
OMG That was good. I am a pilot and that describes a pilot 100%. Can we do beers :drinkers: ?
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#70 Post by complexintentions » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:09 pm

Maybe you can get his phone number and take selfies together!
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#71 Post by squash junky » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:20 pm

I saw an add somewhere for 1 month on 1 off for 18k/mth and told my wife: no way, but if it is double I might consider.
Now a buddy just phoned me: 32k (u$) per month. No month off though. That's 40k+c$
I had 10 yrs in the left seat of a 777 and that was enough. Although..........
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#72 Post by hst » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:32 pm

32k (u$) per month
I thought I was dialled in to the 777 contract world (on my second contract and presently looking for a change) but clearly not in this case. Post the details here. That's a life altering contract if it's out there. I have my doubts.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#73 Post by Eric Janson » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:42 am

Disclaimer:- All opinions are mine based on my personal perspective.

Don't want to be accused of making broad statements! :wink:


@hst

You're right to have doubts.

Lots of figures being thrown about these days especially when it comes to China. These are meaningless without a breakdown of how this amount is calculated imho.

You've probably read this already - but in case you haven't:-

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-ea ... nabes.html

The most telling comment from the thread above:-
Having said what I have I would never recommend any pilot quit an existing job for any Chinese Airline. LWOP, furlough or unemployed sure give it a try you may just stay longer then you think once you settle in to a routine and have figured out how to get along with everything and everyone in the system over here.
That's how I look at these contracts too.

Personally I don't like the "bait and switch" tactics with these Chinese contracts where what is advertised is not what you get. That's already a deal breaker - I expect the contract to be honoured. Trust is an important part of any relationship with an employer. I guess if all people care about is money at the cost of everything else then these contracts may be worth a look. That's not me.

I already have all the hours, ratings and PIC time I will ever need. The only thing these contracts offer me is the potential to make more money (at a price).

I'd rather fly 400hours/year and work the 25 On/10 Off followed by 11 On/17 Off for less money on the contract I'm presently doing. But that's me.

Normal roster at my company is 20 On/10 Off. Positioning to/from home is always done during the "On" days - "Off" days are all at home. Nice people and they've honoured my contract from Day 1.

It's not perfect but out of all the options I've looked at this one was the best fit for me.
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#74 Post by hst » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:06 pm

Thanks Eric. I hope things work out very well for you as an expat. After 28+ years in this business (over 20 in Canada) I've been in Asia long enough to get a sense of the ground rules. What I'd really like to hear more about is this 32K (USD of course) contract. Squash how about some details?
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Re: 777 captain for $175K

#75 Post by Joe Blow Schmo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:19 pm

hst wrote:Thanks Eric. I hope things work out very well for you as an expat. After 28+ years in this business (over 20 in Canada) I've been in Asia long enough to get a sense of the ground rules. What I'd really like to hear more about is this 32K contract. Squash how about some details?
I can't help you with that one but the highest dollar figure I've seen advertised is ~$348K/year (I think) with Hainan. That was a total dollar value ad, it included the value of everything you get, including the non-cash parts (like insurance, school fees, etc). They seem to have since stopped advertising it that way as lately their ad says about $290k. Even that figure is somewhat misleading as the actual amount you get each month is about $19k with the rest being various bonuses and reimbursements that you can never totally count on receiving.

The highest I've seen lately is Xiamen offering $23.5k/month +potentially $24k/year safety bonus for a full time job with 6 weeks leave. Pretty good but still nowhere near $32k/month

Perhaps the $32k was already converted it to CAD? That would be about $24.5k USD which would be in the range of what the ads for Hainan, Xiamen and others say.
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